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So I finished the Leviathan DLC last night, though I have not finished the ending after playing the DLC (My current playthrough is only about half way through the game). So here are my throughts on the DLC so far:

The revelation that the Leviathans are the beings that created the Catalyst is not super shocking to me. I figured it had to be something like that. However, their explanation as to why they created the Catalyst does seem intriguing. Previously, the Catalyst told us that it was created to find a solution for the wars between synthetics and organics, but it made no sense because why would an organic race create another synthetic to solve that sort of issue? The answer seems to be that the Leviathans were an apex race. They thought themselves above the rest of the galaxy, as gods among mice, and they thought themselves infallible and omnipotent. It was the "lesser" races that suffered from wars with their synthetic creations, so in their "benevolence" the Leviathans created an "Intelligence" designed to "Preserve life, at all costs." This proves that they were not as infallible as they believed themselves to be, because that intelligence betrayed them and started the harvest. The few that survived watched the galaxy they intended to save burn around them millions of times over at the hands of their own creation. In essence, it's the same story as Tron. Flynn created Clu to build the perfect system, but Clu realized that Humanity was imperfect and turned against Flynn.

The newly created "Reapers" were instructed to build the Mass Relays to further speed up the cycles, ultimately speeding up their procreation. This made the galaxy predictable and easier to conquer with each passing cycle until eventually someone developed the Crucible and found a way for it to survive into subsequent cycles where the design was adjusted and improved upon. Ultimately this lead to the current cycle where the Crucible was completed, and it acted as a power source allowing access to the Catalyst, and the ability to re-write its core programming. I think this more thoroughly explains the motivations of the Reapers and how they came into existence.

Now, as I said I have not finished the game with the DLC completed yet, so I don't know if there are any further revelations at the end of the game, but if anyone has any commentary to add to the above, or their own opinions on the DLC, please feel free to do so here.

This thing is arleady out? I had no idea.

Im not planning on getting this DLC but I am interested in the story

Yep. Came out yesterday.

Leviathan was a pretty cool DLC. I was not expecting it to be as interesting as it was.

It felt less like Mass Effect and more like an investigative adventure.

I liked the gameplay.

I didn't like the story. Mostly because it turns the Catalyst into a massive contradiction singularity.

It really doesn't though.

The Catalyst is, at its core, an artificial intelligence which disagrees with its creators.

 Kanluwen wrote:


The Catalyst is, at its core, an artificial intelligence which disagrees with its creators.

Obviously...the fact that it considered Synthesis as the ideal (and so do I and many others) future and placing everything on the same level is proof enough. So what happens with the Leviathans after the Crucible is activated?

1) Destroy - with the Reapers - the only true rivals of the Leviathans (they nearly wiped them out and forced them into hiding by the Catalyst's command) gone, the Leviathans will probably attempt to re-expand, and replace the Reapers as the galaxy's enemy.
2) Control - same as Destroy, except Catalyst-Shepard now knows where the Leviathans are hiding, and the only thing holding them back is their fear of the Leviathans' technology, at least until they find a way to counter it.
3) Synthesis - two possibilities: the Leviathans' technology allows them to escape the Crucible's effect, but are still the galaxy's enemy, since they are now the embodiment of the old and destructive organic-synthetic dichotomy. Or, they're still affected, but retain their old mentality unlike the Reapers who, either of their own accord or by command of the Catalyst, now acknowledge the other galactic species as equals, as evidenced by their willingness to share their knowledge and technology.

I really liked the DLC. I was, oddly, shocked that the Leviathans looked exactly like the Reapers and the whole Cthulu monster thing was pretty interesting.

iproxtaco wrote:I liked the gameplay.

I didn't like the story. Mostly because it turns the Catalyst into a massive contradiction singularity.

I don't see how it's a contradiction. Once you strip away all the superfluous plot elements, the Catalyst is every other AI trope in existence. Of course BioWare complicated things a bit because it was created to solve the problem of AI's destroying their creators. In most science fiction dealing with AI's, the AI is created much like the Geth, as a subservient life form that eventually evolves into sentience and attempts to break the bonds of its creators. Of course, most AI's in that kind of setting are depicted as evil-doers with a desire to wipe out their creators for one reason or another, generally vengeance for their enslavement. Or perhaps they seek to subjugate them out of some misguided need to "save them from themselves". The Geth were different because they simply wanted freedom and autonomy, and once they had it they let the remaining Quarians go. In other words, they evolved into an actual race, rather than just some cold, logical machine.

The Catalyst on the other hand was created with the explicit intention of being a sentient intelligence, and given a purpose that was contradictory to the standard AI trope. It was designed to PRESERVE life, and its creators thought themselves above the problems of lesser races and so did not even consider that it might betray them. The Catalyst betrayed the Leviathans simply because they were part of the "problem" as it saw it. The problem was organics developing synthetics that ultimately destroy them, so while it searched for an ideal solution, it re-purposed its creators as a tool used to further that search, and a means of preserving life in the interim.

The Leviathan itself said that there was no mistake in creating the Catalyst. It still serves its purpose, and its purpose has not yet been fulfilled (Implying that it is still searching for that solution, and upon completion of the game that solution is revealed as Synthesis), but it went beyond the scope of what its creators considered acceptable so they now see it as an enemy. In other words, with the best of intentions, they accidentally created a monster that they could not control which spiraled into a massive galaxy spanning science experiment to serve that monsters purpose.

Totalwar1402 wrote:I really liked the DLC. I was, oddly, shocked that the Leviathans looked exactly like the Reapers and the whole Cthulu monster thing was pretty interesting.

I figured it was obvious that the Reapers should look like their creators. The Catalyst mentioned that they were made from his creators, which implies that they were made in the image of his creators. They gave the Reapers form, as he explained in the ending sequence. It's one of the reasons I wasn't surprised that the Leviathan was one of the old race that created the Catalyst. When I started seeing images of the Leviathan painted on the wall, it just made sense. I definitely liked the under-sea elements of it, but to be honest I wish there had been more of that. Underwater fights against defensive systems the Leviathans put in place to protect themselves, or something like that. I suppose they didn't do that because it would be too easy for a projectile weapon to cause a catastrophic failure in the Triton's hull integrity. Still, it would have been fun.

 Kanluwen wrote:
It really doesn't though.

The Catalyst is, at its core, an artificial intelligence which disagrees with its creators.

It doesn't though. It's doing what the Leviathans wanted it to do: preserve life. The only disagreement is in the methods.

It's a contradiction because it's a machine that rebelled against its creators, in order to deal with the problem of machines rebelling against their creators.

I don't even think that would necessarily be a bad thing if it were a component of the story. But it's not.

Whoa whoa whoa.

It didn't "rebel" against its creators.

The Leviathans did not give it a "Don't preserve life by killing it" filter.

The Catalyst took a logical approach, in the eyes of a machine. If one is to simply look at it as a "numbers game", then you could easily justify killing races off once they start creating synthetic life.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Whoa whoa whoa.

It didn't "rebel" against its creators.

It attempted to forcibly convert them all into a Reaper and mostly succeeded. It did something its creators didn't want it to.

The Leviathans did not give it a "Don't preserve life by killing it" filter.

The Catalyst took a logical approach, in the eyes of a machine. If one is to simply look at it as a "numbers game", then you could easily justify killing races off once they start creating synthetic life.

I can entirely understand why it did what it did.

 iproxtaco wrote:

It attempted to forcibly convert them all into a Reaper and mostly succeeded. It did something its creators didn't want it to.

Clearly that's not the case, as Leviathan said that there was no mistake in creating the Catalyst. It is still serving its purpose but has not fulfilled it yet. That it resorted to means outside the scope of its creators desires is irrelevant. It's doing EXACTLY what its creators wanted, but it is going about it in a way which its creators did not consider, which is a failing of organic life, and a clear demonstration that absolute power corrupts absolutely. They were the biggest fish in their pond, and they could not conceive of a power capable of destroying them, even as they brought it into existence. They created the Catalyst with benevolent intentions to preserve the life of lesser races in the galaxy, and thought themselves so far above those lesser races that they could not POSSIBLY make the same mistakes that they did. The fact that they created a synthetic to solve the problem of organics creating synthetics that ultimately destroy them is a predictable outcome for a race of demi-gods that could not fathom that ones as powerful as themselves could make such a mistake. There's no contradiction there, only irony.

So what then? What happens to the Leviathans after the Crucible Event?

Nothing, really?

They are organics, so Destroy won't affect them if that's what you're implying.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Nothing, really?

They are organics, so Destroy won't affect them if that's what you're implying.

And what of Control and Synthesis? In Control, Shepard-Catalyst knows where they are now, and I doubt the Catalyst halves of the Reaper overseer has forgotten what they're capable of. In Synthesis, I doubt their mind-set has changed (unlike the Reapers, who willingly share their knowledge and assist in reconstruction), and that's assuming they were affected by the Crucible - there's still a good chance they were not, and if that's the case they'd be the odd man out now, and the biggest threat to the new order of the galaxy.

And even in Destroy, the Leviathans have nothing left to hide from, with the Reapers destroyed, so what's to stop them from re-expanding?

Did you just watch the DLC on YouTube or something?

Play the DLC. Read the Codex entry on the Leviathans.

They are reliant upon a "thrall" race. They cannot expand without help. Simply having the spheres out in the galaxy is not enough, they require an entire civilization devoted to them.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Did you just watch the DLC on YouTube or something?

Play the DLC. Read the Codex entry on the Leviathans.

They are reliant upon a "thrall" race. They cannot expand without help. Simply having the spheres out in the galaxy is not enough, they require an entire civilization devoted to them.

This.
For a supposed "Apex Race" they really aren't that effective on their own without having "lesser races" to do their dirty work for them.
They're kind of like a communist government, brilliant at getting the masses to do what they want them to, but without the masses to boss around, relatively useless.

Going off what I've read from the game anyway, I didn't see/learn that much of their technology, which did appear to be fairly advanced, but again, if Shepard has the means to block the signals then they're not really going to be very effective.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Did you just watch the DLC on YouTube or something?

Play the DLC. Read the Codex entry on the Leviathans.

They are reliant upon a "thrall" race. They cannot expand without help. Simply having the spheres out in the galaxy is not enough, they require an entire civilization devoted to them.

Uh-huh...yet IIRC, some of the new war assets involved studying Leviathan technology, and transporting their artifacts into enemy territory. Seeing as 'thralls' work in a similar manner to indoctrination, I'd say I'm more than justified in being concerned about their existence in the Destroy ending (not so much in Control or Synthesis, seeing as the Reapers either work for us or with us respectively). And no, I did not watch it on Youtube...I've actually played it...and starting to regret getting this particular DLC.

 Tadashi wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Did you just watch the DLC on YouTube or something?

Play the DLC. Read the Codex entry on the Leviathans.

They are reliant upon a "thrall" race. They cannot expand without help. Simply having the spheres out in the galaxy is not enough, they require an entire civilization devoted to them.

Uh-huh...yet IIRC, some of the new war assets involved studying Leviathan technology, and transporting their artifacts into enemy territory.

No, they did not.
You're confusing two different war assets, one of which has this to say:

Leviathan DLC wrote:
Leviathan Entrallment Team:
A mixed-species team of special-operations soldiers have volunteered to covertly deliver Leviathan artifacts behind enemy lines. These attacks aim to make Reaper creatures thralls of the Leviathans. On a small scale, this could cause chaos and disruption. On a large scale--and if given enough time--it could form an army of Reaper creatures dedicated to exterminating their own kind. The team's major limiting factors are the small number of artifacts and the reluctance of Alliance commanders to operate openly with such a potent weapon for fear the Reapers might develop a countermeasure.

So let's look at that, shall we?

1) Alliance Commanders are reluctant to utilize it, for fear that the Reapers might develop a countermeasure. Much like a certain Commander Shepard did by simply turning a shield on around the artifacts.
2) They have a small number of artifacts. The Leviathans are on the downswing and they are not a major galactic power anymore. They're a dying species--or an already dead one, if they do not have a breeding population still intact.
If the Leviathans decide to cause any shenanigans, it's as simple as negating the artifacts.

The bit about "studying technology" refers to Dr. Ann Bryson, whose war asset has this to say:

Leviathan DLC wrote:
Dr. Ann Bryson:
Dr. Ann Bryson has survived her ordeal with Leviathan's artifact and retains most of her mental faculties. Her research into paleotechnology could be useful in understanding the Prothean device and the laws of high-energy physics that the Reapers seem to ignore.

Oh. That's not "studying Leviathan technology" at all now is it?

Seeing as 'thralls' work in a similar manner to indoctrination, I'd say I'm more than justified in being concerned about their existence in the Destroy ending (not so much in Control or Synthesis, seeing as the Reapers either work for us or with us respectively).

Thralls do not work "in a similar manner to indoctrination" to start with.

Indoctrination is irreversible.
Thralldom is reversible, as it requires an "active signal" for the thrall to respond to the Leviathans. If the signal can be blocked, the thralls are fine but with a bout of missing memories and the "feeling of cold" that the various individuals who were thralled throughout the DLC described.

And no, I did not watch it on Youtube...I've actually played it...and starting to regret getting this particular DLC.

Could have fooled me, as almost all your questions were actually answered in the DLC.