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Hello,

I'm working on a SM fandex right now, and i want give them shotguns as weapons. I wonder if there are rules for that ?

It helps having the actual SM codex with you. And yes.

It help having the actual SM codex with me ? How that ?


And : Can you tell me were i can find those rules ? I've not finished the 6th ed rulebook, but i have it here.

The codex has the rules for the shotgun.

Oh ! Sorry, it's late. And thank you, i look immediately.

Codex rules are pretty weak. If you're writing a fan dex make them S3 AP- flame template, but less readily availble.

 Testify wrote:
Codex rules are pretty weak. If you're writing a fan dex make them S3 AP- flame template, but less readily availble.

No. Not only would that make them too powerful, it doesn't even remotely portray what a shotgun actually does.

 Blacksails wrote:

 Testify wrote:
Codex rules are pretty weak. If you're writing a fan dex make them S3 AP- flame template, but less readily availble.

No. Not only would that make them too powerful, it doesn't even remotely portray what a shotgun actually does.

Ai, I dunno why the suggestion for giving shotties flame templates keeps popping up.
It would make more sense for the shotgun to be S4 AP6 at 6", S3 Ap- at 12" to represent the pellets spreading out.

Oh ! Oh ! Cthulhu ftaghn ! That's that : More damage at short range, less at "long" range.

But how to do the "spread" in terms of number of targets ?

Assault 1 at 6", Assault 2 at 12", Assault 3 at 18 ? EDIT : Is that even possible ? It's really too late. G'night.



My SM do far more fighting against hordes (particularly a race i call the Ratzen, literally rats in space).
They use heavy shotguns (replace bolters for free) more or less as riot control.

Shotguns don't have the spread at close range for a flamer template if they were to do any damage whatsoever. Shotguns are horribly overpowered in tabletop games for some unknown reason, since in most cases they are used for defense because the individual pellets won't go through walls when the user misses like a regular gun.

At best, they should be around the same damage as autoguns with lower AP. The ones in the SM codex are overpowered already.

 Blacksails wrote:

 Testify wrote:
Codex rules are pretty weak. If you're writing a fan dex make them S3 AP- flame template, but less readily availble.

No. Not only would that make them too powerful, it doesn't even remotely portray what a shotgun actually does.

As opposed to the rest of weaponry in the 40k universe that is totally realistic?

 Testify wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

 Testify wrote:
Codex rules are pretty weak. If you're writing a fan dex make them S3 AP- flame template, but less readily availble.

No. Not only would that make them too powerful, it doesn't even remotely portray what a shotgun actually does.

As opposed to the rest of weaponry in the 40k universe that is totally realistic?

Yeah, there's always that argument, but a shotgun =/= flamer. Not even remotely. Not even 40k remotely.

I'd like to think a Shotgun could cover the same area as a piddly hand flamer.

Shotguns don't cover an area. There is no way that a shotgun could cover an area such that you could not take cover. A shotgun does not cover a selected area in flaming liquid from which you have no respite.

All the current rules for shotguns are fine. They could be made better by having two range settings, but a flamer template? Not even close.

Why don't you use a version of the Tesla rule. 6's on the hit roll generate 2 more hits. Might solve the quandary of "shotguns hit lots of stuff, but not as much as a flamer template"

There is no quandry. Shotguns don't hit lots of stuff. Google or Youtube Search what a Shotgun does. Watch at least 3 videos.

Shot guns are pretty unmatched at point blank range. People do survive point blank rifle hits; not so much with shotguns.

I would think something along the lines of
Buckshot: S3 Assault 2 12" range, AP-
Slug: S4 assault 1 12" range, AP4
Special rule is Buckshot fires at full BS for overwatch at ranges of 6" or less.

-Matt

This site has articles of various handgun tested. Shotguns look pretty powerful to me, just less penetrating :

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm#13348543106761&ifh=44

Try thinking about it this way.

In any military operation involving shotguns the majority of the ammunition being used will be a slug of some sort.
Shotguns only have 3 combat purposes
1. Breaching
2. Close quarters combat
3. Riot Suppression

In all of these scenarios a slug is more effective and more accountable than any form of shot.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would essentially give them these stats

Slug
12" S4 AP5 Assault 2 (maybe AP 4 if the cost was right, a shotgun slug will mess you up, body armour or no)
and
Flechette
6" S3 AP6 Assault 4

Assault 2 ? But if it's for firing slugs, don't Assault 2 isn't a little fast ?

You'd be looking at a semi-auto shotgun for Assault 2; only movies and crappy computer games have people using pump action nowadays.

Let's propose :

Shotgun with slug ammo :

Range 6" S6 AP3 Assault 1
Range 12" S4 AP5 Assault 1
Range 18" S2 AP- Assault 1

=> The gun is horribly effective a short range, more or less loss of ammos at high range.

Shotgun with flechette

Range 6" S4 AP3 Assault 1
Range 12" S3 AP4 Assault 1
Range 18" S2 AP5 Assault 1

Shotgun with "lead shot" (damn, it's what you english use for this ammo type ? "shot" ?).

Range template/6" S4 AP- Assault 4 (must be different target if available)
Range template/12" S3 AP- Assault 4 (must be different target if available)
Range template/18" S2 AP- Assault 4 (must be different target if available)

template/x" meaning : All the shots must have their trajectory IN the template (only the range can be higher).

LittleOrk wrote:

Shotgun with "lead shot" (damn, it's what you english use for this ammo type ? "shot" ?).

Range template/6" S4 AP- Assault 4 (must be different target if available)
Range template/12" S3 AP- Assault 4 (must be different target if available)
Range template/18" S2 AP- Assault 4 (must be different target if available)

template/x" meaning : All the shots must have their trajectory IN the template (only the range can be higher).

That you keep thinking you can seriously injure more than one person with one round of shotgun fire shows you still don't understand how the shot in shotguns work.

Yeah, the pellets do not spread apart enough to hit multiple targets, and even if they do, they would have lost too much force.

What is the use of pellets (that the good word ?) then ? After all, you can put slugs or even bullets (of little caliber, but still), in a shotgun.

Does the "template/x" is good for machine-gun ?

LittleOrk wrote:
What is the use of pellets (that the good word ?) then ? After all, you can put slugs or even bullets (of little caliber, but still), in a shotgun.

Does the "template/x" is good for machine-gun ?

1) It hurts more at CQC
2) Lesser chance of missing a small target, or a group of small targets, since you are firing a cloud of lead.

Okay, let's see...

Range 6" S6 AP- Assault 1
Range 12" S4 AP- Assault 1
Range 18" S2 AP- Assault 1

Pellets Rule :
If the target is Small or a Swarm, the shooting attack always wound on a +4, regardless of the target toughness. Swarm rule still apply.

In regards to CthulhuIsSpy: Not entirely; It doesn't hurt more so much as it has more stopping power. It's going to send a bunch of projectiles through a target in a fairly tight clumping for around 50 feet, meaning that where a target might have taken 2 or 3 shots from a 1-bullet gun to go down, a single shotgun shell will put 6-12 holes in him and down him. It has a lot more stagger as well, as the power of the bullet is spread out over more area - hit 'em high and they'll be on the ground.

In regards to 2: Not really. If you're using birdshot, the shell gives you a great chance to hit what you're actually aiming at till around 100 feet, because the spread can make up for wind and dip to a point. If you're firing birdshot past 100 feet at soldiers in flak armour, you might as well be tossing sand at them hoping to get it in their eyes. A little closer and it might have the penetrative power to breach armour and then skin, but using a more massive shot is recommended; buckshot or even trapshot will leave sucking chest wounds at ranges up to 100 feet, and even a glance by the shot cloud will be able to deal some significant damage.

It DOES NOT however, tend to spread out very comically. Clump your 2 fists together; that's the typical spread of buckshot at 75 feet.

 chrisrawr wrote:
In regards to CthulhuIsSpy: Not entirely; It doesn't hurt more so much as it has more stopping power. It's going to send a bunch of projectiles through a target in a fairly tight clumping for around 50 feet, meaning that where a target might have taken 2 or 3 shots from a 1-bullet gun to go down, a single shotgun shell will put 6-12 holes in him and down him. It has a lot more stagger as well, as the power of the bullet is spread out over more area - hit 'em high and they'll be on the ground.

In regards to 2: Not really. If you're using birdshot, the shell gives you a great chance to hit what you're actually aiming at till around 100 feet, because the spread can make up for wind and dip to a point. If you're firing birdshot past 100 feet at soldiers in flak armour, you might as well be tossing sand at them hoping to get it in their eyes. A little closer and it might have the penetrative power to breach armour and then skin, but using a more massive shot is recommended; buckshot or even trapshot will leave sucking chest wounds at ranges up to 100 feet, and even a glance by the shot cloud will be able to deal some significant damage.

It DOES NOT however, tend to spread out very comically. Clump your 2 fists together; that's the typical spread of buckshot at 75 feet.

Huh, I did not know that. Ok, thanks.

LittleOrk wrote:
Oh ! Oh ! Cthulhu ftaghn ! That's that : More damage at short range, less at "long" range.

But how to do the "spread" in terms of number of targets ?

Assault 1 at 6", Assault 2 at 12", Assault 3 at 18 ? EDIT : Is that even possible ? It's really too late. G'night.



My SM do far more fighting against hordes (particularly a race i call the Ratzen, literally rats in space).
They use heavy shotguns (replace bolters for free) more or less as riot control.

Make it twin-linked at (relatively) long ranges.