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Dear all,

I'm about to start a tournament with some friends, and as it will be my first, I could use your advice...

I'm playing an Ork army with Deffrollas, DakkaBW, BurnaBW, Dakkajet, Buggies, Lootas and Shoota mobs/Nob PK.

Here are my opponents:

1) Tyranids: Flying Hive Tyrant, Tervigon, Mawloc, Zoanthropes and Hive keepers

2) IG: full mechanized. Leman Russ Punisher, ADL, Valkyrie, Vendetta

3) Tau: Broadsides, heavy flamers, Hammerheads

4) Necrons: no idea what he will play exactly

5) Chaos: Land Raider, Dread, Termies

According to your experience, what shall I aim first in these armies, and with what?

Thank you so much for your tactical hints!

What point level are you starting at and escalating to at the max if you are doing so?

At 2k with a single fOC I like:

Biker boss kitted out
6 nob bikers 2 poles banner painboy upgrade 2 PK 1 BC (troop)

Megaboss kitted
6 mega nobs 4 Kombi skorchas (troop) rolla wagon grot rigger red paint n 2 big shootas

20 shoota boys kitted out nob with big shoota and +1 other big shoota
20 shoota boys kitted out nob with big shoota and +1 other big shoota

Gretchin x 10

Lootas x7
Lootas x7
Lootas x6

Dakkajet ace poly extra supa shoota

Duplicate wagon as manz for boyz

I have liked it so far. I think a few more manz may be appropriate... Or bikes ha


Really have to say bikers and manz performing well this edition, lootas great for skyfire. I like burnas myself but have to put a hvy armor hq with them, and I can't leave manz without a pole; as well as wanting 2 scoring nobz troops. I figure 2+ nobz with Kombi skorchas can lay down that perfectly timed once per game burnination while still being a harder to kill target with wider target allowance

For the Nids, ignore the flying MC until it lands, youll just waste your shooting trying to hit the damn thing, and then forget trying to wound it.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

skyfi wrote:
What point level are you starting at and escalating to at the max if you are doing so?

At 2k with a single fOC I like:

Biker boss kitted out
6 nob bikers 2 poles banner painboy upgrade 2 PK 1 BC (troop)

Megaboss kitted
6 mega nobs 4 Kombi skorchas (troop) rolla wagon grot rigger red paint n 2 big shootas

20 shoota boys kitted out nob with big shoota and +1 other big shoota
20 shoota boys kitted out nob with big shoota and +1 other big shoota

Gretchin x 10

Lootas x7
Lootas x7
Lootas x6

Dakkajet ace poly extra supa shoota

Duplicate wagon as manz for boyz

I have liked it so far. I think a few more manz may be appropriate... Or bikes ha


Really have to say bikers and manz performing well this edition, lootas great for skyfire. I like burnas myself but have to put a hvy armor hq with them, and I can't leave manz without a pole; as well as wanting 2 scoring nobz troops. I figure 2+ nobz with Kombi skorchas can lay down that perfectly timed once per game burnination while still being a harder to kill target with wider target allowance

40 boyz at 2k isnt going to cut it at all. You need WAY more bodies in there for starters. And Im a bit confused on what you mean by duplicate wagon as manz for boyz? Does that mean the boyz are in wagons as well? Even still, if your going for a rush, 3 wagons wont last you very long to most any armies @ 2k

Let me add two things
- Tyranids player uses a flying hive tyrant with 2 TL Assault6 ranged weapons. He never lands. That's why I need 2 Dakkajets!
- IG player uses Pask in his Punisher...

He didn't ask for a list though, but rather for what to shoot first against those opponents.

Luckily, I play against most of those armies regularly, and have a similar army to you.

 RedizDead wrote:
Dear all,

I'm about to start a tournament with some friends, and as it will be my first, I could use your advice...

I'm playing an Ork army with Deffrollas, DakkaBW, BurnaBW, Dakkajet, Buggies, Lootas and Shoota mobs/Nob PK.

Here are my opponents:

1) Tyranids: Flying Hive Tyrant, Tervigon, Mawloc, Zoanthropes and Hive keepers

If that hive tyrand lifts off, chose to skyfire with your dakkajets. It will come crashing down fast than it likes. Hive guard should be prioritized over tervigons by your lootaz. If the mawloc shows up, keep it busy with a unit of boyz, so it doesn't have a chance to attack your battlewagons. Rokkits should go into monstrous creatures, all other shots(burna, shootaz, big shootaz, etc) into gaunts which will undoubtedly be all over the place. Move away from them as long as possible, force him to attempt lucky charges (10"+) in order to get some overwatch fire on his little bugs. Once they are too close to move away from them, charge.

2) IG: full mechanized. Leman Russ Punisher, ADL, Valkyrie, Vendetta

All lootaz should be shooting at the vendettas, as well as the dakka jets. Ignore valkyries in order to take those lascannons down, otherwise they are going to fry half your army. Going second if possible is also a good idea. The punisher merely looks threatening, but that gating really is a terrible weapon. Ignore it unless it happens to within range of a deff rolla or power klaw.

3) Tau: Broadsides, heavy flamers, Hammerheads

No idea, I don't have decent tau player for an enemy. Railguns tear appart battlewagons though, you should aim for those first.

4) Necrons: no idea what he will play exactly

Dangerous elements are most things sporting tesla weaponry. Identify cryptecs which are elementary to his strategy and wipe out them and their units. Never stop shooting at any infantry until the entire unit is gone, or one third of them is going to come back. If he has a lot of AV13 vehicles, use those rokkit buggies to take down as many quantum shields as possible before they die. Lootaz can handle vehicle without shields. Scarabs should not be an issue for your burna wagon, but keep the other one away.

5) Chaos: Land Raider, Dread, Termies

Well, the dread is actually on your side
Otherwise, chaos land raiders can't hold as many terminators as normal ones, just make sure he can't charge any valuable targets out of it. Five terminators can be handled by boyz. The landraider itself can be ignored - attempt to deff rolla it, if possible., but do not chase it. One unit to look out for are Khorne Berzerkers, other than nobz, few of our unit can handle them in combat. Make sure to shoot them dead before they reach you. If they are inside the landraider, bait them with something and them shoot them dead.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RedizDead wrote:
Let me add two things
- Tyranids player uses a flying hive tyrant with 2 TL Assault6 ranged weapons. He never lands. That's why I need 2 Dakkajets!
- IG player uses Pask in his Punisher...

Dakka jets are awesome anyways. I see no problem here.

Pask in a Punisher makes him a bit more dangerous. Try to outrange it(it only has 24" range) and hit it with your buggies from the side or even rear. If your dakkajets survive the dogfight with the vendettas, you can also aim at his rear. I honestly think that this player might give you the most trouble.

The punisher merely looks threatening, but that gating really is a terrible weapon. Ignore it unless it happens to within range

Id agree normally, normally its a meh weapon, but he said it has Pask in it. Now its not meh, its a unit killer, and a flier killer. Id imagine it also will have the HB sponsons as well, so that thing will be pumping the STR5 rounds out like nobodies business. Id say this one should be a bit higher on your list of things to take out, because @ BS4 all those shots are going to murder any unit on foot, as well as have a good shot at downing your Jets.

 KingCracker wrote:
For the Nids, ignore the flying MC until it lands, youll just waste your shooting trying to hit the damn thing, and then forget trying to wound it.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

skyfi wrote:
What point level are you starting at and escalating to at the max if you are doing so?

At 2k with a single fOC I like:

Biker boss kitted out
6 nob bikers 2 poles banner painboy upgrade 2 PK 1 BC (troop)

Megaboss kitted
6 mega nobs 4 Kombi skorchas (troop) rolla wagon grot rigger red paint n 2 big shootas

20 shoota boys kitted out nob with big shoota and +1 other big shoota
20 shoota boys kitted out nob with big shoota and +1 other big shoota

Gretchin x 10

Lootas x7
Lootas x7
Lootas x6

Dakkajet ace poly extra supa shoota

Duplicate wagon as manz for boyz

I have liked it so far. I think a few more manz may be appropriate... Or bikes ha


Really have to say bikers and manz performing well this edition, lootas great for skyfire. I like burnas myself but have to put a hvy armor hq with them, and I can't leave manz without a pole; as well as wanting 2 scoring nobz troops. I figure 2+ nobz with Kombi skorchas can lay down that perfectly timed once per game burnination while still being a harder to kill target with wider target allowance

40 boyz at 2k isnt going to cut it at all. You need WAY more bodies in there for starters. And Im a bit confused on what you mean by duplicate wagon as manz for boyz? Does that mean the boyz are in wagons as well? Even still, if your going for a rush, 3 wagons wont last you very long to most any armies @ 2k

My 40 boys have not once all died in a game in 6th. Ever using this list. I feel the threat of the nov bikers and manz in their deployment is a a lot to deal with. If you ignore those2 squads it's a chalked up W usually and if you focus on them.. Boys are unmolested and full str to lay down cover fire from mid field obj.

I played our local tourney winner who is headed off to feast of blades with this lists and won 11-4 T5 and was bein pretty gratuitous letting him pass ld checks he failed at one point and allowing a 5" charge after he picks up dice and refilled fleet and got snake eyes...

But hey that's only my local meta.


As far as tactics about the op listed... His list wasn't very explained in depth, not were te point levels or escalation steps (point bumps or whatever) which is why I asked so much and posted a list. Maybe OP will update thread with full list.


In only run 2 wagons. 1 for manz, 1 for 20 boys. And keep em close enough manz could hop out and steal their ride.. (bit far enough to only get hit 1 at a time with pie plates.
Nothing that you seem to be facing seems to scary. I think you should be fine following pretty standard Ork tactics of killing their support with range and kill the thing your scared
Of In melee with lootas if you can? (death company dread big bugs etc)

Youve never lost your 40 boyz in a 2k point game huh? And you smoked a local champ even? This one time, I beat DashofPepper ina 2k point game, and only took 1000pts of Orks. With out losing a single mini. I swept him even! I hope my sarcasm was thick enough.



Im sorry mate, but either your local meta is playing against yourself and letting your Orks win everytime, or you laying it on. Because there is absolutely NO WAY, you can roll only 40 boyz in 2000pts and they survive. MAYBE part of one unit, but they are going to be molested, period. There is no player out there, old or new, that would simply focus their ENTIRE force on your 2 "scary" units and ignore the boyz. No way. Not going to happen.

My advice from here to the OP, would be to not listen to this guy, because that is total bull

Not a very experienced Ork player yet, so I'll speak from the army I am familiar with, IG. If you're up against a mech heavy list, target priority is everything. He's going to outmaneuver you, and more than likely outshoot you. However, the Pask Punisher is a big mistake. That thing costs almost as much as 2 regular russes, and is nowhere near as scary as them when they're played right. Yes, he'll have 29 S6 shots against vehicles if he sits still, but he has to SIT STILL, with a 24" range main gun. The 9 heavy bolter shots will reach to 36", but aren't anything to write home about. He's trying to use it as a cute little anti transport/flier weapon, and it won't work nearly as well as an exterminator or hydra would.

Ignore it, as long as possible, just keep your dakkajets at least 31" away. He might be able to get sideshots on a battlewagon, but that won't get 4 hullpoints unless he rolls hot. he may gut a boys squad, or focus down some bikers, but there are far scarier things in that list than the punisher. Take out vendettas first, period. Valkyries can hurt if he has multiple rocket pods (the large pieplate rocket launchers) but that depends on how threatened you feel by him. As for his infantry, he's either doing 2 things. Ask him, do you have a platoon or vets? Vets means he'll have 6 scoring units tops. They've got BS 4, tons of special weapons, and will ruin anything's day they get near. However their numbers are low, meaning if you can pop the transports you can cripple his scoring ability. Once a chimera is gone, they're pretty much dead. If he's running platoons, he'll probably have a lot more chimeras (somewhere around 10 usually, all scoring, with a couple HQ ones at high points), but they're much weaker individually. Less special weapons, hit less, etc. but safety in numbers means you'll never kill them all. Lock down your objectives, get your deffrollas hitting the chimera's side armor, and you'll be ok. Also remember you hit vehicles on 3's, and IG vehicles are made of paper on the rear. Odd's are, if you can charge something, you can glance it to death. Punisher has rear 11 though, keep that in mind.

Other than that, get those lootas knocking out whatever you see as scary first, and your dakkajets will tear through his chimeras like tissue paper if they can kill the IG fliers. Don't forget your shootas and sluggas can glance a IG flier to death from the rear, as they're only AV 10 there.

 KingCracker wrote:
Youve never lost your 40 boyz in a 2k point game huh? And you smoked a local champ even? This one time, I beat DashofPepper ina 2k point game, and only took 1000pts of Orks. With out losing a single mini. I swept him even! I hope my sarcasm was thick enough.



Im sorry mate, but either your local meta is playing against yourself and letting your Orks win everytime, or you laying it on. Because there is absolutely NO WAY, you can roll only 40 boyz in 2000pts and they survive. MAYBE part of one unit, but they are going to be molested, period. There is no player out there, old or new, that would simply focus their ENTIRE force on your 2 "scary" units and ignore the boyz. No way. Not going to happen.

My advice from here to the OP, would be to not listen to this guy, because that is total bull

Agree, your opponent will simply shoot your two units of boyz off the table and then simply wait for the game to end. Because, if he has even a single objective, you no longer have way of winning the game.

 Jidmah wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:
Youve never lost your 40 boyz in a 2k point game huh? And you smoked a local champ even? This one time, I beat DashofPepper ina 2k point game, and only took 1000pts of Orks. With out losing a single mini. I swept him even! I hope my sarcasm was thick enough.



Im sorry mate, but either your local meta is playing against yourself and letting your Orks win everytime, or you laying it on. Because there is absolutely NO WAY, you can roll only 40 boyz in 2000pts and they survive. MAYBE part of one unit, but they are going to be molested, period. There is no player out there, old or new, that would simply focus their ENTIRE force on your 2 "scary" units and ignore the boyz. No way. Not going to happen.

My advice from here to the OP, would be to not listen to this guy, because that is total bull

Agree, your opponent will simply shoot your two units of boyz off the table and then simply wait for the game to end. Because, if he has even a single objective, you no longer have way of winning the game.

With 3 other scoring units (bikers manz and grots) I'd think if boys Died I'd hardly be in a terrible position.

I apologize if my list is unconventional or if me even mentioning it was for nought. But is Ork strategizing such serious business to treat me so?

Pardon me if I have found some success with my list, I used to run 60-72 at 2k but just hated removing handfuls per turn which is what lead to the development of my list. Never did I claim to be winning tournaments or anything of the sort. Merely they our local "champ" spoke positively of me and my list. Sorry if I thought it may be useful for someone else. Sigh it's really actually quite frustrating to light heartedly post opinions when just attacked. By people who presume you're chest thumping as opposed to trying to provide valid input. Pardon me for any run ons/mistakes in this post and prior, sick and medicated so. Cheers

You were given a reasonable response in response to your list.
Once you argumentation turned from tactics to "but I win all the time with this", you were no longer strategizing, but chest-thumping.

I am most likely the best ork player in my area. Does that make me right on everything about orks? No. The other ork players are either kids who don't care about tactics, or fluff players, who don't care about tactics either. The "local champ" in the store closest to me only keeps winning because his Eldrad has won multiple in-store campains and thus has gotten his stats boosted to ridiculousness. Does that make him a great tactician? Unlikely.

As such your W/L record is completely irrelevant to anyone here but you. I know, if I field that exact list you are suggesting against my usual opponents, I am setting myself up to get tabled. Some of them are pretty good players and will find such a linchpin instantly. Two expensive death-stars backed up by almost nothing else will not win you the game unless your opponent is playing into your hands. And you will not be able to save those for scoring - you've got nothing else that can actually put a serious dent into anything.

 Jidmah wrote:
You were given a reasonable response in response to your list.
Once you argumentation turned from tactics to "but I win all the time with this", you were no longer strategizing, but chest-thumping.

I am most likely the best ork player in my area. Does that make me right on everything about orks? No. The other ork players are either kids who don't care about tactics, or fluff players, who don't care about tactics either. The "local champ" in the store closest to me only keeps winning because his Eldrad has won multiple in-store campains and thus has gotten his stats boosted to ridiculousness. Does that make him a great tactician? Unlikely.

As such your W/L record is completely irrelevant to anyone here but you. I know, if I field that exact list you are suggesting against my usual opponents, I am setting myself up to get tabled. Some of them are pretty good players and will find such a linchpin instantly. Two expensive death-stars backed up by almost nothing else will not win you the game unless your opponent is playing into your hands. And you will not be able to save those for scoring - you've got nothing else that can actually put a serious dent into anything.

Save it. Presume all you want about my intentions. If what I said came across as merely best thumping instead of what I perceive as a viable alternative tactic to the conventional wisdom.. Than crucify me I suppose!

Nobody I see runs double deathstar lists etc. could you please tell me what would table me so easily ? What all comer list would just wipe me up?

I never claimed to be the best or anything near it. I spoke of an isolated inciden where a good player was utterly incapable of dealing with the double deathstar list. I merely want to have FUN, and painting/fielding 100+ boys is not the "right" or "only" way to do it.

So instead of presuming the worst about me why not ask for a bat rep from my list playing against a particular army?

Couldnt of given me the benefit of the doubt, no. Internet no place for that.

Seriously turns me off of dakka.

Heres my major problem with your list Skyfi. Yes, you made it so you have more than JUST the boyz that can objective grab. But the problem with it is many, not only do you have VERY few bodies for an Ork force at 2k, but half of your objective grabbers, are your heavy hitters. So either your sending your boyz to fight everything, and letting the heavy hitters take a vacation, or your having your heavy hitters doing their jobs and the boyz sitting around. Either way, your build is setting anyone that uses it up for an easy loss. If the big guys are doing their work, they are going to lose numbers and eventually die, even in best case situations, because again, @2k points, they WILL NOT be able to take an entire army alone, even constantly being in CC with a Tau force, they would be whittled down by attacks.

So Im sorry, but theres just no way what you proclaim to be true, can be unless again, your group is very small and very inexperienced. Im not trying to come off as a jerk and insulting, but those are the facts. What you posted, in a 2K point match wouldnt last for squat. And if criticism of your list turns you off from DAKKA, then TBH, you wouldnt be a good fit here. If you actually read these threads, youll notice that its FULL of criticism, thats the point of this entire forum. And saying that you beat a local champ and so on, with what you posted, just makes people that have a LOT of previous experience with Orks, smirk and say no way.

I'm finding 40 boys hardly enough at 1k. I have no idea how you're making that many work at 2k.

Against the tau kill the hammerheads first to limit his anti horde ability. His Crisis suits with flamers ought to be your next target, they represent a significant portion of his overall firepower....really just getting into close combat with your infantry should be enough to shut him down.

skyfi wrote:

Save it. Presume all you want about my intentions. If what I said came across as merely best thumping instead of what I perceive as a viable alternative tactic to the conventional wisdom.. Than crucify me I suppose!

Nobody I see runs double deathstar lists etc. could you please tell me what would table me so easily ? What all comer list would just wipe me up?

I never claimed to be the best or anything near it. I spoke of an isolated inciden where a good player was utterly incapable of dealing with the double deathstar list. I merely want to have FUN, and painting/fielding 100+ boys is not the "right" or "only" way to do it.

So instead of presuming the worst about me why not ask for a bat rep from my list playing against a particular army?

Couldn't of given me the benefit of the doubt, no. Internet no place for that.

Seriously turns me off of dakka.

Here is a word of advice for you, take everything on Dakka with a grain of salt. Everything you hear, every suggestion you receive is going to be geared towards beating the living out of your opponent. These people are here to win, they are here to play in tournaments and learn what it takes to hang with the toughest most skilled cheesy beard necks you can imagine.

In that regard, what works in your local meta (most likely a friendly scene) isn't going to work worth a damn for people in a truly competitive tournament meta-like scene. So your 20 boys may work fine for you, as many of my lists work fine for me. Do I think that my sub-par fluffy Eldar list that seems to pull wins in my local meta would hold up against a tournament veteran? Most likely not, while I may be able to "surprise" my way through a game with a skilled player once or twice...keep running the list and watch as it doesn't do as good as it use too. The people on this forum are playing 6-8 games in a row at a tournament. Many times their opponent has a good idea what is coming their way and you won't pull out a surprise win.

What this comes too is this....don't post here asking for advice unless you are playing as hard as possible. If you are playing as hard as possible you need to leave your personal opinions at the door and take into account what others are saying. Playing against an IG army with 5 LRBT and a Manticore your 20 boys wouldn't last very long, and those 6 Melta-vets would b-line for your Meganobs/Bikers. They will keep up with you in speed, they will out range you, and you will be relying on a 5+ after they wound you on a 2+ and instant death you with every melta they shoot. That is just one of many examples of what could neuter your list.

Don't let this put you off of Dakka though, you just have to understand what you are getting yourself into. And many times you are going to have to just swallow what comes at you and either try what they say or accept to play your own list and disagree. However, if you do disagree you will get nowhere arguing, as more than likely they know what they are talking about.

Im cracking up at what youve just said about us here at DAKKA Farseer Mael Dannan. Ive never played in a tourny ever, I know 100% that I dont play to win, I play to enjoy the game. And Ive chatted with Jidmah many times about Orks tactics, and I can assure you, he isnt a WAAC Orky player either, I mean, the guy has used Boomgun wagons FFS. How is that a WAAC player exactly? I think you should be here on DAKKA a bit longer and actually see what this community is about, then say what you said.

And agreed with MrMoustaffa, if I find 40 boyz at 1000 a little tricky, there simply is no way you could handle it at 2k. 40 is the bare minimal that I ever take in under 1500pts, and again, it takes some real careful planning to keep them from being mowed down.

 KingCracker wrote:
Im cracking up at what youve just said about us here at DAKKA Farseer Mael Dannan. Ive never played in a tourny ever, I know 100% that I dont play to win, I play to enjoy the game. And Ive chatted with Jidmah many times about Orks tactics, and I can assure you, he isnt a WAAC Orky player either, I mean, the guy has used Boomgun wagons FFS. How is that a WAAC player exactly? I think you should be here on DAKKA a bit longer and actually see what this community is about, then say what you said.

And agreed with MrMoustaffa, if I find 40 boyz at 1000 a little tricky, there simply is no way you could handle it at 2k. 40 is the bare minimal that I ever take in under 1500pts, and again, it takes some real careful planning to keep them from being mowed down.

I don't think you guys are WAAC, but if you go into the forum with the mindset I laid out you will never be upset/disappointed. Whether or not you are personally a WAAC being on Dakka has a bit of it rub off on you. You know much more what is good and what is bad than other people...and I'm sure if you WANTED to you could be a WAAC which takes the knowledge to pull off. I'm just saying that going around the forum with the attitude I laid out will ensure no hurt feelings/upset grudges.

I would agree with that. Thats pretty much what I said in a previous post, if he doesnt want to be criticized on his tactics, he probably shouldnt post about them in a tactics forum. But Im done arguing about that whole mess Has the OP had any victories since the first post?

skyfi wrote:
Nobody I see runs double deathstar lists etc. could you please tell me what would table me so easily ? What all comer list would just wipe me up?

A vindicator, for example. Those seem to be popping up everywhere with their new unlikeliness of being shaken or have their weapon destroyed. One or two good hits on either of your deathstars, and half your army is gone. If your opponent brought something to handle battlewagons, those weapons are also awesome at killing your Nobz, too. That is, if simply stopping the transport in the middle of nowhere isn't enough already. Vendettas, lascannons on predators, devs and razorbacks, annihilation barks, doom scythes, dark lances and railguns are hardly an uncommon sight and found in almost every all-commers list of their corresponding armies.
Most T6 monstrous creatures can and will take down a good chunk of your unit, if not all of it. Same for close combat walkers and dead 'ard characters like Thrakka, Draigo or just regular Warbosses and Surfboard Lords.
On top of that nobz are all but unable to handle both hordes and other death stars. Boyz, gaunts or power blobs can easily keep them busy for two turns, which means you will not be killing anything else in the meantime. On the other hand, a seer council, TH/SS terminators, GK terminators or paladins, large units of screamers, sanguine guard, TWC or simillar units will cause so many casualties to them that they struggle to take on anything else, if they don't outright defeat them in combat.
And last, there are psychic powers. They can drop your unit's offensive or defensive abilities, reduce leadership and snipe models. These have a much larger impact if your army pulls it's weight with only two units.
Putting all your eggs into two baskets sets you up to get them neutralized in any of the ways described above. If your opponent didn't bring any of those, I wonder what he did bring. And even if he doesn't do anything about it, you can accidentally defeat yourself by rolling badly for saves/moral. I have had seven nob bikerz run off the table on me before. No matter how unlikely, it cost me the game each time.

I never claimed to be the best or anything near it. I spoke of an isolated inciden where a good player was utterly incapable of dealing with the double deathstar list. I merely want to have FUN, and painting/fielding 100+ boys is not the "right" or "only" way to do it.

Fun is a great reason to do everything. I am not telling you to stop having fun or stop playing your list. I am telling you that your list is sub-optimal, and that it would work even better if you had more boyz instead of a second nob unit. For that reason you shouldn't advertise it as awesome to other people who might face stronger opponents than you do. They might spend money and time on rebuilding your list, just to fail with it over and over again - while not having fun at all.

So instead of presuming the worst about me why not ask for a bat rep from my list playing against a particular army?

Couldnt of given me the benefit of the doubt, no. Internet no place for that.

Seriously turns me off of dakka.

Again, anecdotal evidence is just that, anecdotal. Which we were trying to tell you all along. One game doesn't prove anything. Ten games don't prove anything either. A hundred games against a hundred different opponents might tell us you're onto something.
Just look at the number of people disagreeing with you. Each ork player on this forum has played dozens, if not hundreds of games with the current codex. We all have tried fielding less boyz than usual and suffered the results. Dozens of battle reports on this forum alone tell of people who got tabled due to not bringing enough green bodies. Don't you think if the concept would work, at least one of us would have made the same experience?

Besides, I don't think it's WAAC to make the best list you can. It's WAAC to argue rules, deny friendly mistakes, make the player you are fighting miserable, my last tourney went that way so I decided to play the douchebag card cause it was played on me. The person wanted me to move fast, not question his rulings and deny me my waagh the only round my dakka jets would be in cause I ran my squads, while appropriate it's all tone and presentation, if you don't bother with those then in my eyes you turn into TFG. And with TFG I decide to say "Ya know what? I was wanting a friendly game when we started, but now I'm pissed so guess what, Every time i have a question I DEMAND YOU SHOW ME THE RULE in the rulebook. LOS, Cover, Wound allocations, even the profiles of your guns." That isn't a WAAC that is how you troll a douche who wanted to speed his game up, feed me bad rules, and complain about me even taking my turns that on a time limit and I decided to not indulge an asshat like that after about 30 minutes of the most miserable feeling in the world.

Cracker, I agree WAAC is a stupid way to play if you can't laugh scream WAAAAGH in a game and look like a utter dofus while playing and leave the table smiling then it's cause you not only wanted to win you refused to accept defeat as a possibility and more than likely were a crappy player to play against.


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skyfi wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
You were given a reasonable response in response to your list.
Once you argumentation turned from tactics to "but I win all the time with this", you were no longer strategizing, but chest-thumping.

I am most likely the best ork player in my area. Does that make me right on everything about orks? No. The other ork players are either kids who don't care about tactics, or fluff players, who don't care about tactics either. The "local champ" in the store closest to me only keeps winning because his Eldrad has won multiple in-store campains and thus has gotten his stats boosted to ridiculousness. Does that make him a great tactician? Unlikely.

As such your W/L record is completely irrelevant to anyone here but you. I know, if I field that exact list you are suggesting against my usual opponents, I am setting myself up to get tabled. Some of them are pretty good players and will find such a linchpin instantly. Two expensive death-stars backed up by almost nothing else will not win you the game unless your opponent is playing into your hands. And you will not be able to save those for scoring - you've got nothing else that can actually put a serious dent into anything.

Save it. Presume all you want about my intentions. If what I said came across as merely best thumping instead of what I perceive as a viable alternative tactic to the conventional wisdom.. Than crucify me I suppose!

Nobody I see runs double deathstar lists etc. could you please tell me what would table me so easily ? What all comer list would just wipe me up?

I never claimed to be the best or anything near it. I spoke of an isolated inciden where a good player was utterly incapable of dealing with the double deathstar list. I merely want to have FUN, and painting/fielding 100+ boys is not the "right" or "only" way to do it.

So instead of presuming the worst about me why not ask for a bat rep from my list playing against a particular army?

Couldnt of given me the benefit of the doubt, no. Internet no place for that.

Seriously turns me off of dakka.

BTW Dreadnoughts, MC's, Vindicators, deathstrike missles, Manticores, Force Weapons, telepathy Psyker table, Gunlines, Paladins, Draigo, Challenges and the same unit. Deathstars are more or less fire magnets you gamble with in 40k it doesn't work as well anymore as it does with other games like Warmachine or the like where 4 models can take 35 no problem due to special rules (well it still CAN but nothing immediately is coming to mind). The point here man is you are being a thin skinned wuss about one of the most mundane stress levels of the game, your list. Sorry it's just how I see it from the posts.

If you want advice we will offer it and dismantle it for you and tell you before it is even used how it would go more than likely- I've always loved Dakka Dakka for that, every match I have Iearn how to refine the Orks into better killing machines. And when not taking matches I am learning new ways to fight with them for example you could look up my recent post "A Detailed look at Flash Gitz" which talks about one of the most underused units in 40k which actually are proving VERY competitive to me in the future of foot sloggers. This game isn't always friendly, I would love it to be more than you know but you will always have someone who argues with a rule and makes you feel bad just for being correct about them and it happens to screw an enemy over (even if you warned them the round before).

So my advice if if you don't like Dakka Dakka then you are not prone to enjoy any real Forum of 40k because Dakka Dakka does it the best IMO Gives me my info and shows me my weaknesses; cut and dry. Try not to point the finger just cause the paint job seems to large, most of us hate having to paint that many models but damn if it doesn't get you respect for doing it HA . So Sorry to chew into you like that and if you do feel we're just too mean to take your list as a champion list well... no sorry I won't apologize for it but I will say you will more than likely in the next 12 games come to the same conclusions we were going to offer, or not that is kinda the point of being able to do what you want you can defy the current prevailing wisdom of these forums and post positive results... though it helps to post it in a sensible fashion.

Cracker, I agree WAAC is a stupid way to play if you can't laugh scream WAAAAGH in a game and look like a utter dofus while playing and leave the table smiling then it's cause you not only wanted to win you refused to accept defeat as a possibility and more than likely were a crappy player to play against.

I agree, infact most the time when I call a WAAGH! rather just saying "Im going to call a WAAAGH!" I say it like a rather gay Frenchmen. Its hilarious to me to

Well, after a kid actually dove for cover and almost knocked over a table in the process, I have stopped yelling "Waagh!" at the top of my lungs

Didn't mean to stir up a hornet's nest. I really don't wish to argue.

I realize and understand the truth of the conventional wisdom... boys before toys.... but like everyone else, I have preference on what I run. Just like the people who run deffwing or kan walls, they know they are doing so at a risk/tactical disadvantage but play that way regardless because it is their style.


When I play my orks the "fluff" I have in mind is a pack of elite nobz, with barely enough wussy lads/boyz to do their laundry etc. I play with my bikers as the dominating force having to be shot off table T1 or T2 (which typically doesn't happen aside from a VERY lucky vindicator shot.. or 3) (edit: or whatever # we are on now (damn medicine, makes me feel like ricky from trailer park boys)... I realize the risk of this is increasing with Libbies getting prescience and getting to re roll those scatters.

Depending on the opponent I play my boys very conservatively, hiding them behind BLOS terrain within 12" of 1-2 loota squads (boys usualy between the 2 as protection for both...and as protection for the walk on from reserve gretchin.. who can't ever kill anything)... so the 20 boys just chill most of game, with the 2 big shootas popping shots off across table when possible, and some slight moving around to shoota-dump into whatever gets close to lootas. (I realize that 4-5 wraiths, death company, vanguard squad etc) are more than likely to wipe out my 20 man squad if they get there safely. I really do bank on the lootas working with the boys to protect them... ie. last game vs "local champ" he got first blood wiping 20 boys T1 w/ 8 DC w/ a reclusiarch. I played them very aggressively in an attempt to bait the DC out of a Landraider so I could shoot them off the board with 21 lootas/jet. I realize I had to sacrifice a scoring unit, but his list was something like:

IG w/ BA Allies

Command squad (5 guys and a hq i think?)
10 man guard in chimera
10 man guard in vendetta
empty vendetta
2 collussus (240" range s6 ap3 barrage)
ADL w/ comms link

Reclusiarch
8 death company (3 PW i think) no J packs go into a LR w/ TL lascannonsand TL hvy bolter
Stormraven with furioso dread with Talons
10 man assault squad (combat squaded)


I think that was it?


I did end up having my bikers tied up for 2 turns longer than they should as I made a poor decision to let a choppa nob challenge the PW sarge and he made saves 4 rounds of combat before dying. He also dropped the dread off after that combat to charge into bikes, killing a couple with it before being felled.

I had hot dice that day, and my opponent might as well been rolling ice cubes that day. which should influence the outcome do a degree.


My gaming group IS rather small. I only play with 3 individuals regularly. (eldar, mix of war walkers/reapers/siam han or whatev)... (I also don't get why people are so scared of seer council with nob bikers. Bikers and MANZ eat them up, boys on the other hand run scared from the seer council).... Other 2 opponents are crimson fists (with blood angels allies) and necrons (new player so very limited with his choices)... I'm trying to overcome social anxiety to come into contact with players of "tournament caliber" or whatever you want to call them.

I do however get to play probably 2 games a week, so i feel like I have gotten a good 20+ games in since 6th has started... but maybe I'm just playing "scrubs" and that's why I am finding success in my list.


I really didn't mean to come off so offended, I have been sick on and off for the past 3 weeks, I'm really tired of it. Dakka is a haven for me to get away to, and it really rubbed me the wrong way that I came across as a braggart as opposed to trying to provide valuable input.

I realize the dangers of putting so many eggs into those baskets and have contemplated changing the list up to provide a third threat.


Also to be clear, I own 39 shoota boys and don't know if tourneys locally will let me proxy slugga boys. So I am trying to work with what I have as I currently have no budget for hobby.


This weekend there is a local 1500 point tourney, Which I hope to participate in (my first). I was hoping to run a scaled down version of my 2k list, but am having trouble scaling it. I don't really want to run 40 boys at 1500 but I may have to.

Last night I play tested my scaled down list vs. necrons and did well enough, but only because I overloaded one flank and fought half his army at a time.

I lost 9/20 of my offensive boys to shooting and assaulting lychguard (yes I know, def not playing against optimized necron, convinced him to run wraiths and more flyers/troops in lieu of lychguard) and then 8 more from shooting from ark/assault from spyder.. from whom they failed LD and ran away as a remaining group of 3, never to regroup. My other 20 boys squad was never shot at, I merely hid them in my deployment on obj, guarding grots and lootas. shooting lychguard/wraiths/whatever came into midfield



I really didn't mean to get all fussy or anything, it's just more that frustrating to have someone criticize you to the point of saying your "full of " or being called a downright liar. If my opponents are not tourney champions I understand, but I suppose I will start posting bat reps with my lists for people to pick apart. I realize there is a counter to everything in this game. If I bring a big squad of mans, they could just shoot it up with 10 lascannons wiping the squad, or rapid fire 20 plasma gun shots into them... or vindicator spam them to death etc. Those are resources they will have to dedicate to killing those. and if you place warboss in front of pack vindicator isn't ID'ing anyone right? Wounds would land on warboss t6 therefor allowing FNP right?


I just think in theory, that nearly every list could be picked apart and criticized to death. It really comes down to how you actually play the hand you are dealt that matters.. I realize the 2k list i posted isn't optimal, but it's fun to me! I get 3-6 offensive elements (1 boys mob, bikes, manz, 2 wagons, jet) 3 of which can score... (don't most people deploy some juicy targets somewhere near and obj? that to me is always a priority target for bikes or manz.. just point them at something that needs to die that is ALSO in proximity to an obj or would grant linebreaker)


In last turn of game vs. list I posted above, storm raven killed 3 bases of mega nobs, half the squad in one turn merely because there was no cover to get into near the obj in enemy deployment MANZ were on. I stupidly didn't place warboss between raven and manz to absorb S8/9 shots. Luckily their morale held and if not, they had 16ish or so boys standing on the obj next to them as well.



My opponent though, spent most of the shooting with his collusus' aimed at my bikers, and I thought honestly they would have more impact had he shot 1 of the 3 squads of lootas/footslogging boys?

Anyhow, didn't mean to cause a ruckus, or detract from the OP's intention of the thread. Really was more of a robitussin-induced-attempt-to-stimulate-dialogue-on-the-efficacy-of-a-unconventional-list. I realize this place is critical, and overly-so sometimes. I realize I should take what others say with a grain of salt, but hey we all have bad days. My apologies.


and KingCracker, I have to say it's quite hilarious that a kid dove for cover. My last beer&pretzel game against crimson fists/BA (3k) I managed to karate chop one of my own trukks off the table 5' across the room smashing it up very nicely in the middle of pointing out what my lootas target was >.< ... I think my friend dove for cover too.. trukks are awfully pointy and all.. can't blame em too much

It was Jidmah that yells WAAGH! really loudly. I say it like a gay frenchmen

Thank you guys for sharing so much game experience!

We did not play so far, but the idea is 1500pts, random scenario and I plan to play with the following:

1x BW with Deffrolla and 1 Big Shoota
- 1 Big Mek with KFF
- 18 Shootas with 1 Big Shoota
- 1 Nob with PK and Bosspole

1x BW with Deffrolla and 1 Big Shoota
- 7 Burnas and 3 Meks (to repair lost HP)

3x Buggies with TL Rokkits

2x Dakkajets with Extra Shoota

15x Lootas

19x Shootas, 2 Big Shootas, 1 Nob with PK and Bosspole

19x Shootas, 2 Big Shootas, 1 Nob with PK and Bosspole

Following your advice, I should play vs:

Chaos, player will probably use:
Dreadnought, as much as possible -> Dakkajets, Rokkits-Buggies and Lootas
Chosen SM -> Spam of Dakkas
Land Raider -> Deffrollas and PK, but I'm afraid the Lascanon will shread my BW before getting in range of rollas...
Heavy weap squad -> Spam of Dakkas

IG, player will probably use:
Vendetta -> my main target, Lootas, Dakkajets and Shootas from rear
Valkyrie -> same as above
Pask-Punisher -> Deffrollas and PK when in range, Dakkajets from rear. Maybe Rokkits-Buggies from side as well?
ADL or Bastion
Leman Russ with S8 large template -> problematic for me... deployed in the very rear of the board, any suggestion to shoot them down?
Mobs of Vets and a Master of Ordnance (hidden in a Chimera or in the ADL/Bastion)

Tyranids, player will probably use:
Flying Hive Tyrant with 2 TL Devourer -> Dakkajets
Hive Guards -> Lootas, but he will hide them as they do not need any LoS
Mawloc/Trygon -> Shootas in melee, Rokkits-Buggies
Biovore -> How to deal with the spore mines?
The Doom via Mycetic Spore -> I guess Shootas, Lootas and Rokkits-Buggies should kill him

Tau, player will probably use:
Hammerhead -> main focus
Heavy Flamer Crisis -> to glue in melee with my Shootas
Broadside -> Dakkajets, Rokkits-Buggies

Do you guys have anything else to advice maybe?

Thank you again, and viva dakka!

WAAAGH!

- The chaos landraider isn't scary at all. If your deff rolla dies, just ignore it. Even two invincible twin-linked lascannons are still just two lascannons. In dozens of games I have never destroyed a chaos landraider unless it ended up right in front of a battlewagon for some reason.

- Aiming for sideshots seems like a good idea, but keep in mind that pask will probably wipe out your entire units of buggies if you fail. Put careful consideration whether you still need them before sending them to their death. You buggies should rather attempt to take out those russes in the back - they are imune to lasguns, which makes bubblewraps a lot less problematic.
- Heavy weapon teams suffer instant death from lootaz, rokkits and dakkajets. Considering that their LD isn't stellar it's also worth noting that dakkajets have the pinning special rule.

- A flying hive tyrand will have to make a check whenever he is hit at least once by a unit crash down on a 3+ to suffer a S9 hit - even when gretchin or boyz shoot him. Don'T waste the jets on him, lootaz should do fine. Instead
- Shoot your dakkajets at the hive guard. It really hard to hide out of sight from them. I'd even call a Waaagh! just to remove them from the board with ridiculous amouts of supa-shoota shots.
- Ignore spore mines. If some unit is really bored and has nother targets, shoot it. A big shoota on a battlewagon could also do this. Most of the time the biovore won't miss anyways.
- Always shoot the doom with rokkits. No matter how many wounds it has leeched, a single rokkit will instantly kill it. Don't waste lootaz on it.

I tend to ignore Landraiders anyways unless they happen to get close enough for a deffrolla to ram them, which doesnt happen too often. It seems to just take too much attention to smoke them, unless a warboss is close enough.

 Jidmah wrote:
- - Aiming for sideshots seems like a good idea, but keep in mind that pask will probably wipe out your entire units of buggies if you fail. Put careful consideration whether you still need them before sending them to their death. You buggies should rather attempt to take out those russes in the back - they are imune to lasguns, which makes bubblewraps a lot less problematic..

What do you mean exactly Jidmah?

By the way, hard to take out Leman Russ in the back as they always are deployed at his board limit...