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okay, this might seem to be a little heretical for fellow IoM players, but I have been thinking and I must know:

why fight?

humanity is slowly sinking into a cesspool of Xenos, heretics and infighting that is mostly it's fault. it seems that whatever a person does it feeds some dark god a sliver more of power. fighting gives power to khorne, death gives power to nurgle, lust and human desires feeds sleneesh, and any change is part of tseenech's plan (multiple misspellings I know.)

but what about the lighter side of the spectrum? love and the hunt for perfection doesn't always devolve into lust and violence. What about happy marriages? what about striving for being good in things but learning no one can be perfect?

what about hope? Not so much you decide to change everything, but not to give into despair. Is the pursuit of helping people and trying to make at least one world safe evil? is the idea that even the humblest human lifetime can help millions of people evil?

What about fighting for innocents and dieing a righteous death? is the Marine killing khorne beserkers to stop them from hurting orphans still giving power to khorne?

other threads say that souls just get eaten as soon as the person dies, so whats the point in fighting?

these are things I would really like to know and seek opinions on.again, sorry for the spelling mistakes.

Because you get to drive cool tanks and cool planes like valkyries and shoot bolters and sh1t.
It's like totally grimdark man

Because if you don't fight, your species will go extinct.

Seriously, what better reason is there?


Mankind faces extinction in the face of its foes. You must fight to survive.

well, whats survival worth in the Grimdark universe of 40k? most of the worlds there are are hive worlds, where conditions are miserable, cramped and most of the populase work in hazordous refugee camps. what little money they have seems to go to the tithes the imperium makes people pay (I know why they need it but still)

show me at least some examples of how life there is worth fighting over

Life, such as it is, is still better then the alternative.

Because it's mandatory for roughly 10% of a planet's population annually should they not want a visit from the Inquisition or whatever. Then if they don't, as a guardsmen, they'd probably get executed. As for the PDF... well...

But not all worlds are complete crap like hive worlds, there are the richer worlds, the agri worlds and worlds in sectors like the Ultramar sector which are relatively peaceful. Not to mention they are fed incorrect information as the truth would otherwise dissuade them. If the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer is to be believed the Lasgun is one of the strongest weapons in existence, Orks are cowardly and will run from gun fire and gaunts have stubby little claws which somewhat struggle to penetrate the superior flak armour.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
well, whats survival worth in the Grimdark universe of 40k? most of the worlds there are are hive worlds, where conditions are miserable, cramped and most of the populase work in hazordous refugee camps. what little money they have seems to go to the tithes the imperium makes people pay (I know why they need it but still)

show me at least some examples of how life there is worth fighting over

Because evil space fungi, homicidal robots and legions of hell itself will eat your children, your loved ones and just about anything on your home world, or some deranged person will set up a cult and sacrifice you all to the god of war perhaps? And as others have pointed out there is no alternative to fight. only death and destruction of your species. And just about anything is better than those alternatives

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
okay, this might seem to be a little heretical for fellow IoM players, but I have been thinking and I must know:

why fight?

Yes its heretical. Tons of heretical lies ....

There is no reason to falter. What is won if we don't fight?

So why not!

Tiger9gamer wrote:well, whats survival worth in the Grimdark universe of 40k? most of the worlds there are are hive worlds, where conditions are miserable, cramped and most of the populase work in hazordous refugee camps.

An important thing to keep in mind: People generally simply do not know how much better it could be. Just look at our own real world - we have the resources and the knowledge to create a utopia, yet what do we do?

And yes, as has already been mentioned, the alternative is extinction of the human species. The Imperium, as oppressive as it is, sees itself as Mankind's only hope for survival.

Lastly, the vast majority of Imperial citizens are following some version of the Imperial faith and thus believe that their soul will join the Emperor in death if they behave like good little minions in life. That's just an in-universe reason for people to fight, but one that most of them may consider as even more important than the eventual fate of their species.

hmmm, never looked at it in that light. I was more depressed at the fact that there was almost nothing to gain. guess survival is a good motivator for this.

what about I wrote about hope, death and such?

Your initial post would be excellent propganada by Xenos or Traitors

Whilst the main fluff of the rulebook, codexes and such must concentrate on the war adn the war machinces, the novels have the ability to examine more why and how the varied defenders of the Imperium are fighting:

1) To surivive
2) To preserve those you love/care from death or fates worth than death
3) Faith - As Lynata says many of those in the Imperium truely believe in the divinity of the Emperor and Faith is a source of comfort in the dark times. Many will be taught that not only does the Emperor protect but if you die in His name you may well stand at his side in some form of afterlife.... even if this is not the case (and who knows) - who can prove otherwise.
4) Escape from a dark depressing life on a hiveworld
5) indocotrination

oh, huh. thanks for clearing this up for me. is there any examples or novels for these reasons?

All of these things exist in 40k, they are just seen in a different light as people think about stuff differently than we do today.

Most of the Imperial populace isn't even aware what kind of trouble their Imperium is in, knowing nothing about the threat of the Necron or the approaching tendrils of vast swarms of Tyranids. They just live to see another day, being largely concerned with their own little lives, their immediate family (even where it's a street gang or a feral tribe rather than a normal family), and/or the honour of their regiment/homeworld. Also, the Imperial propaganda is powerful, instilling a sense of righteousness and purpose in the masses, with influential and charismatic Preachers tending to the spiritual needs of the people. There are indeed examples where the efforts of just a single human born of humble origins can help millions of people, and the Ecclesiarchy in particular tends to loudly proclaim them as Saints, examples for everyone to aspire to as well as symbols of hope.

As an example how all of this may skew perception, here's an excerpt from the designer notes about one of the SoB codices:
"By the standards of the 21st century, these girls are fanatical zealots, but in the context of the 41st millennium, they're paragons of virtue whose every action is a manifestation of the divine will of the God-Emperor of Mankind."

It's all a matter of perspective, you see.

Many people will live abysmal lives in poor conditions (think Industrial Revolution-style), but I think that only few will actually give in to despair, their religion and a sense of duty keeping them at work, not to mention that these people too may have a family to feed, which means additional obligations and perhaps even pressure, but also a sense of unity. Also, some worlds will actually have somewhat more gentle conditions. Agriworlds in particular will likely have people working hard, but at the same time knowing a good night's rest as well as rural communal life complete with marriages and harvest feasts.

What about fighting for innocents and dieing a righteous death? is the Marine killing khorne beserkers to stop them from hurting orphans still giving power to khorne?

I think this depends entirely on how the Marine feels when he kills the Berserker. Chaos Gods feed on emotions, and when you have a Flesh Tearer ripping the Berserker apart with hands and teeth, Khorne will be just as happy as if when the Berserker had won. An Ultramarine calmly dispatching his foe with a bolt round to the head, on the other hand, will net Khorne not much in terms of rage or any other interesting feeling ... unless said Ultramarine grows to become rather prideful and arrogant as he racks up kills, thus becoming more influential for heretical promises of greatness.

other threads say that souls just get eaten as soon as the person dies, so whats the point in fighting?

Well, in general people don't know this.
We, the fans, are not even sure of this ourselves. We know that the Chaos Gods like to eat souls, but we also know that this can be prevented (see Eldar Soulstones), and the myth about the Emperor safeguarding his followers might have an inkling of truth. Unless you are one of those that believe the Emperor is a Warp God himself and "eats" his followers just like the Chaos Gods eat theirs. See the ritual of Soulbinding. Grimdark, grimdark ...

Tiger9gamer wrote:is there any examples or novels for these reasons?

What exactly are you looking for?

The answer: For the Emperor. Nothing more, nothing less

quick answer - most of them

(Caveat -not everyone like the novels versions of the Imperium or people within it)

Helsreach and Titanicus - a huge variety of people fighitng the good fight for all the reasons above - from Faith and hate driven Astartes, Faith driven Sisters, Civilians trying to survive in the Hell of war, lovers tying to keep tehemslves and each other alive....even some fighting for Glory/Sense of Duty - plus some "because they are there and no else is"

Imperial Glory - dark stuff but again the Guard Regiment is fighting to create a home for itself and its followers by destroying the Xenos.

Gaunts Ghost - mixture of fighitng to preserve youself and loved ones / trusted companions, some because they enjoy it and some for Faith and Duty

Cain novels - as above

All of the above are (IMO) highly recomended to try and find out why the average Imperial will fight and die .................

Oh wow, didnt think of it that way.

thanks for those who responded and helped me enjoy this setting more!


for the emperor!

edit: thanks for the books too!

For the Emperor.

Not being eaten by Tyranids is a good thing.
Not being raped to death by the Dark Eldar is another.
Not being raped to death by Chaos.
Not being killed for gaks and giggles by Orks.


You really don't have to look much further than "The alternative is being eaten, or raped, to death". I mean, life in the Imperium is not that great on some planets. But crappy life is still better than death. And better than rape.

1. The 41st millennium may sometimes seem similar to the trials of the modern world, but it is also nothing like ours. People think differently in the 41st millennium than they do in this one.

I don't think that indoctrination is being stressed enough either, normal people don't understand what a crappy life they actually have in the 41st millennium. By the power of the all powerful church and state of the Imperium, its citizen's are told from day one that their greatest achievement in life is to die for the Emperor and provide an edifice for their martyring comrades to pile up upon until not only are they so completely buried in death, but their enemies are utterly crushed beneath the sacrifice that is required every single hour of every single day to maintain even their severely low quality of life. That is also a generalization, but it is largely true from an overwhelming majority of the Imperium, and in many cases are even more severe.

However, there are also a few cases in which some worlds are set apart. Paradise worlds come to mind, and people have an uncanny habit of finding new reasons to fight for something. As long as it's sanctioned by the Inquisition, the people of the Imperium can fight for pretty much any personal reason they can attribute to the Emperor, for once it becomes solely personal or communal, it's no longer loyal to the Imperial cause and can be considered a route to heresy.

There is no reason to continue fighting for the carriongod. Embrace the freedom that only the primordial truth can offer and become so much more than you could ever hope to be.
Your soul, such a pitiful, small and ultimately useless thing, is a small price to pay for the chance of true imortality, isn't it?

Fight or die in a most gruesome way. Work to better your race, to buy it survival for even just a few more decades.

Perhaps in that era it is better and more logical to just lay down and die, but human spirit and all that


Von Chogg

also forgot to add

Revenge - another powerful motive to fight the enemy.

This again? Simple - fighting fate is reason enough. I really hate fatalists - prophecies and visions can come true as much as they like, but destiny is forged by our own hands alone. Even when I say that 'our destiny calls to us', its not because its inevitable, but we still have to work for it.

What if your fate is to spend your life fighting against fate?

gg Tadashi no re

- - - - - -

There is no point in fighting for the Imperium. Join the Greater Good and experience what it's like to belong to an administration that genuinely cares about its individual citizens.

BlaxicanX wrote:
What if your fate is to spend your life fighting against fate?

My point is if one does not like their 'fate', then they don't have to accept it. Just make your own 'fate'. Its what Humans do best, and something the failed elder races could never do.

There is no point in fighting for the Imperium. Join the Greater Good and experience what it's like to belong to an administration that genuinely cares about its individual citizens.

Traitor...*aims plasma pistol and fires*

FOR THE EMPEROR!

 DiRTWaL wrote:
FOR THE EMPEROR!

*raises glass filled with the Jack Daniel's whiskey (or its 40k equivalent)*
FOR THE EMPEROR AND ALL MANKIND!!!

 Tadashi wrote:

Traitor...*aims plasma pistol and fires*

And is burned by the backblast of the emergency venting as his primitive human made plasma weapon goes *woof* in his hands.


A decent Tau or Eldar made plasma weapon wouldn't do this. Damn cheap knock-offs.

 chromedog wrote:
And is burned by the backblast of the emergency venting as his primitive human made plasma weapon goes *woof* in his hands.


A decent Tau or Eldar made plasma weapon wouldn't do this. Damn cheap knock-offs.

Tadashi opens up with his arm-mounted Assault Cannon, with his fellow Terminators opening up with their Storm Bolters. Missiles streak overhead from Whirlwinds and Devastators, while Predator Annihilators open up with their Lascannons. "Come on, pointy-ears! Show your pretty faces and fight like men! COWARDS!!!"

 Tadashi wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:
What if your fate is to spend your life fighting against fate?

My point is if one does not like their 'fate', then they don't have to accept it. Just make your own 'fate'. Its what Humans do best, and something the failed elder races could never do.

There is no point in fighting for the Imperium. Join the Greater Good and experience what it's like to belong to an administration that genuinely cares about its individual citizens.

Traitor...*aims plasma pistol and fires*

That's funny because 90% of humanity's population is oppressed on a daily basis and trapped in a cycle of enslavement by a regime that doesn't care about any of them.