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 Grey Templar wrote:
Because if you don't fight, your species will go extinct.

Seriously, what better reason is there?


Mankind faces extinction in the face of its foes. You must fight to survive.

This right here. That was the ENTIRE POINT of the Emperor's Great Crusade. If humanity does not go on the offensive it will be destroyed, every human being alive would be killed.

The Imperium is as harsh as it is because it NEEDS to be to survive.


Are you saying humanity should just commit mass suicide?

Things like love and happy marriages and family BBQs actually DO exist in 40K, however there is no point in mentioning that gak in a 40k novel or the fluff.

 Galdos wrote:



Are you saying humanity should just commit mass suicide?

No. They want people to believe in progress and understanding - you know: democracy, freedom, human rights ala Tau Empire/Galactic Republic. BS IMHO.

Things like love and happy marriages and family BBQs actually DO exist in 40K, however there is no point in mentioning that gak in a 40k novel or the fluff.

Of course it does. Just because the codexes and novels don't mention it doesn't mean Humans have stopped being Human. In fact, I believe if we look away from the Imperium's iron fist and into its soul, we'll find Humans just being Human to each other.

this thread has already happened and was entirely pointless

I was just curious

^ oh, in that case, accept my apologies.

The other thread was run by a fellow that could be likened to one of those angry religious guys that stand out in town and scream for people to turn to Christianity.

^ He loved his heresy while it lasted. Damn, that guy was incredibly stubborn and ignorant.

I can relate mostly though, made this thread on a day I was feeling a little down about this hobby and it's grimdark theme, wanting to ask questions I genuinely had.

never wanted to see it spiral like it did though wanted answers, not a propaganda war

^ they fight because they want to survive.

the Space Marines, Grey Knights, Inquisition (I hate to day it), and Sisters of Battle are pretty much the IoMs only hope.

The Guard is riddled with traitors, but can still be effective.

Really though, the Imperium will remain in it's grimdark dying state because of the way GW progresses things. They won't show a future Grand Crusade that will wipe out a ton of xenos and half the galaxy. That is meant for you, the player, to do.

fight because if you doesn't, then you get yourself a great big *BLAM*

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
okay, this might seem to be a little heretical for fellow IoM players, but I have been thinking and I must know:

why fight?

humanity is slowly sinking into a cesspool of Xenos, heretics and infighting that is mostly it's fault. it seems that whatever a person does it feeds some dark god a sliver more of power. fighting gives power to khorne, death gives power to nurgle, lust and human desires feeds sleneesh, and any change is part of tseenech's plan (multiple misspellings I know.)

but what about the lighter side of the spectrum? love and the hunt for perfection doesn't always devolve into lust and violence. What about happy marriages? what about striving for being good in things but learning no one can be perfect?

what about hope? Not so much you decide to change everything, but not to give into despair. Is the pursuit of helping people and trying to make at least one world safe evil? is the idea that even the humblest human lifetime can help millions of people evil?

What about fighting for innocents and dieing a righteous death? is the Marine killing khorne beserkers to stop them from hurting orphans still giving power to khorne?

other threads say that souls just get eaten as soon as the person dies, so whats the point in fighting?

these are things I would really like to know and seek opinions on.again, sorry for the spelling mistakes.

 Tadashi wrote:

 Galdos wrote:



Are you saying humanity should just commit mass suicide?

No. They want people to believe in progress and understanding - you know: democracy, freedom, human rights ala Tau Empire/Galactic Republic. BS IMHO.

Things like love and happy marriages and family BBQs actually DO exist in 40K, however there is no point in mentioning that gak in a 40k novel or the fluff.

Of course it does. Just because the codexes and novels don't mention it doesn't mean Humans have stopped being Human. In fact, I believe if we look away from the Imperium's iron fist and into its soul, we'll find Humans just being Human to each other.

To the first part of your post Tadashi, I dont know what you are talking about. The OP made a post making it sound like he thinks humanity should just give up. Why are they wasting their time fighting? (How it sounds like) My response was the alternative is death. You fight or you die, thats a simple fact of this universe and the entire point of the Imperium of Man, it is for survival. Tau Empire has nothing to do with anything here.


Your second post is dead on though. Humans are still living normal good lives. Thats why they fight, for their love ones and for survival. It just isnt mentioned because there is no point o mentioning it in a codex

 Galdos wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Because if you don't fight, your species will go extinct.

Seriously, what better reason is there?


Mankind faces extinction in the face of its foes. You must fight to survive.

This right here. That was the ENTIRE POINT of the Emperor's Great Crusade. If humanity does not go on the offensive it will be destroyed, every human being alive would be killed.

The Imperium is as harsh as it is because it NEEDS to be to survive.


Are you saying humanity should just commit mass suicide?

Things like love and happy marriages and family BBQs actually DO exist in 40K, however there is no point in mentioning that gak in a 40k novel or the fluff.

This excuse is used by almost every powerhungry tyrant. Mankind did just fine before widespread warpstorms destroyed civilisation as it was known at that time and mankind might have
recovered once the warpstorms disolved. Instead the carriongod turned the dominion over all technology to the Mechanicus, an organisation which was known for it's extremely conservative view when
it comes to research and actual science, and created an Imperium which was, from it's very beginning, not built upon cooperation but mercyless exploitation. This aspect of the Imperium
probably does more to further the cause of chaos then the Despoiler and all his legions could ever hope to achive.
The Imperium is it's own worst enemy and mankind's survival is rather doubtful.

This excuse is used by almost every powerhungry tyrant. Mankind did just fine before widespread warpstorms destroyed civilisation as it was known at that time and mankind might have
recovered once the warpstorms disolved. Instead the carriongod turned the dominion over all technology to the Mechanicus, an organisation which was known for it's extremely conservative view when
it comes to research and actual science, and created an Imperium which was, from it's very beginning, not built upon cooperation but mercyless exploitation. This aspect of the Imperium
probably does more to further the cause of chaos then the Despoiler and all his legions could ever hope to achive.
The Imperium is it's own worst enemy and mankind's survival is rather doubtful.

I was goingt o respond to this (like mid paragraph) when i realized you just shouted a massive load of anti-Imperium propaganda and I didnt know how to respond without making it look like I REALLY do believe in the divine Emperor of mankind or something. So feth it, not even worth commenting on lol.

 KingDeath wrote:



Mankind did just fine before widespread warpstorms destroyed civilisation as it was known at that time and mankind might have
recovered once the warpstorms disolved.

Dark AGe of Tech didn't end just because warp storms...

 KingDeath wrote:

Instead the carriongod turned the dominion over all technology to the Mechanicus, an organisation which was known for it's extremely conservative view when it comes to research and actual science,

Somehow, this research and science happened BEFORE the heresy...seems it wasn't this "carriongod", whoever thats is, who put an end to "actual" science.

 KingDeath wrote:

and created an Imperium which was, from it's very beginning, not built upon cooperation but mercyless exploitation.

 KingDeath wrote:

This aspect of the Imperium probably does more to further the cause of chaos then the Despoiler and all his legions could ever hope to achive.

This despoiled one and his so called Legions...did they run away a few times? Maybe its hard to achive anything at a "tactical retreat "..

 KingDeath wrote:

The Imperium is it's own worst enemy and mankind's survival is rather doubtful.

....have no doubt, humans are to essential to the setting.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
okay, this might seem to be a little heretical for fellow IoM players, but I have been thinking and I must know:

why fight?

Bitches love manly men who do manly things!

 Galdos wrote:


To the first part of your post Tadashi, I dont know what you are talking about. The OP made a post making it sound like he thinks humanity should just give up. Why are they wasting their time fighting? (How it sounds like) My response was the alternative is death. You fight or you die, thats a simple fact of this universe and the entire point of the Imperium of Man, it is for survival. Tau Empire has nothing to do with anything here.


Your second post is dead on though. Humans are still living normal good lives. Thats why they fight, for their love ones and for survival. It just isnt mentioned because there is no point o mentioning it in a codex

I was referring to people who argue the Imperium is a monstrosity/should be destroyed/should be more like the Tau or some 'goody two shoes' civilization...

 Galdos wrote:

This excuse is used by almost every powerhungry tyrant. Mankind did just fine before widespread warpstorms destroyed civilisation as it was known at that time and mankind might have
recovered once the warpstorms disolved. Instead the carriongod turned the dominion over all technology to the Mechanicus, an organisation which was known for it's extremely conservative view when
it comes to research and actual science, and created an Imperium which was, from it's very beginning, not built upon cooperation but mercyless exploitation. This aspect of the Imperium
probably does more to further the cause of chaos then the Despoiler and all his legions could ever hope to achive.
The Imperium is it's own worst enemy and mankind's survival is rather doubtful.

I was goingt o respond to this (like mid paragraph) when i realized you just shouted a massive load of anti-Imperium propaganda and I didnt know how to respond without making it look like I REALLY do believe in the divine Emperor of mankind or something. So feth it, not even worth commenting on lol.

Fishing time, I guess.

 KingDeath wrote:
This excuse is used by almost every powerhungry tyrant.

No one ever said the Emperor wasn't a power-hungry tyrant. In the Last Church short story, he pretty much admitted that his actions are like those tyrants, but unlike those tyrants, his actions are okay because he is right (which is of course, what every other tyrant said ).

Mankind did just fine before widespread warpstorms destroyed civilisation as it was known at that time and mankind might have
recovered once the warpstorms disolved. Instead the carriongod turned the dominion over all technology to the Mechanicus, an organisation which was known for it's extremely conservative view when
it comes to research and actual science

The Mechanicus didn't exist on Mars back in the day, they were a plenty progressive bunch to match Terra's own scientists. In fact, they were responsible for sending out the initial colony ships during mankind's first exploration of the stars. Then there was that whole cataclysmic civil war between mankind and it's AI creations that left many worlds barren and much of the technology lost. This led right into the Age of Strife, where difficult/impossible interstellar travel was the least of your problems, as psykers and mutants and possessed started tearing the place apart. For example, Terra had a period called the Psy Wars, where a few individuals were born so psychically powerful, that they could mind-control legions of followers. These psychic warlords basically ran the planet into the ground until a "mysterious hero appeared who was immune to their powers and was able to rally the resistance and end their reigns" or something along those lines. Mars went all Mad Max, with ragtag groups of survivors struggling against radiation sickness and gangs of ravenous mutants. Whatever was left, had to be preserved, and the mistakes of the past not repeated. Every HH novel so far indicates that the Emperor's reign spurred a new age of progress as all of mankind once again were unified in purpose.

... and created an Imperium which was, from it's very beginning, not built upon cooperation but mercyless exploitation. This aspect of the Imperium
probably does more to further the cause of chaos then the Despoiler and all his legions could ever hope to achive.
The Imperium is it's own worst enemy and mankind's survival is rather doubtful.

It's actually based on both, in that you have a choice. Will you cooperate willingly, and perhaps find some value in a life of service? Or will you refuse to accept your stark reality, and thus have to be mercilessly exploited? The scale of the Imperium and the time-frame of the Emperor's plan is far too large for any one individual. If creations such as the Thunder Warriors or even the Primarchs were expendable, how important can a single short-lived human be?

That's why any reasonable person would convert to Chaos worship. After all, if you're going to be refusing reality, you may as well accept the wonderous world of unreality. Which brings me to the OP's question. Why fight? Why live? You live for the hope that you may gain notice of the Ruinous Powers, and they bless you with apotheosis. Sure, it probably won't work out, but it still beats the 0600-2100 daily shift at the Manufactorum.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Things like love and happy marriages and family BBQs actually DO exist in 40K, however there is no point in mentioning that gak in a 40k novel or the fluff.

To be fair many of the (IMO) better novels do have romance (often doomed but its there), families and home life - eg:

Gaunts Ghosts - lovers and familes trying to survive the ongoing war
Cain novels - less extreme but plenty of romance involving him and others
Imperial Glory - its all about the Guard Regiment trying to fight for a homeworld for them and their families.
Desert Warriors - central love story
Helsreach - This is all about why people fight - so many different reasons and again including lovers ( some doomed some not)
Even the Night Lords novels have a central romance going on......

etc

Its much less prevelant (except as a contrast or to show their lack of humanity) in books about the Astartes but thats logical - if often does not end well but thats 40K

We had a thread like this a few weeks ago. It fell before a Lockhammer-wielding mod.

was referring to people who argue the Imperium is a monstrosity/should be destroyed/should be more like the Tau or some 'goody two shoes' civilization...

Ha okay, that explains why I was confused. I missed that you were replying to someone else.


Fishing time it is

Okay, now that I've made my obligatory joke about the Lockhammer, I will answer your question.

In the fluff, people fight for the Imperium due to the psycho-conditioning most Imperial citizens experience from birth. They genuinely believe their cause is just.

In real life... Well, as someone who takes this game very seriously, this may sound odd, but I picked the Imperium because it sounded cool. I would not support it IRL.

Well, that and it's the only thing that has ever made me feel proud to be human. I'd rather be an Eldar, but still.

 DOOMBREAD wrote:


In real life... Well, as someone who takes this game very seriously, this may sound odd, but I picked the Imperium because it sounded cool. I would not support it IRL.

I support it because its AWESOME, and I would still support the Imperium if they suddenly dropped out of the sky and annexed us...because they reward those who support them. If I survive the war of pacification (no way in hell the whole world will just bow to the Imperium), I might just become planetary nobility, or even a Rogue Trader.

 Tadashi wrote:

 DOOMBREAD wrote:


In real life... Well, as someone who takes this game very seriously, this may sound odd, but I picked the Imperium because it sounded cool. I would not support it IRL.

I support it because its AWESOME, and I would still support the Imperium if they suddenly dropped out of the sky and annexed us...because they reward those who support them. If I survive the war of pacification (no way in hell the whole world will just bow to the Imperium), I might just become planetary nobility, or even a Rogue Trader.

Well, I may outwardly support it (y'know, just to survive) but I would not believe what they did was just.

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

 Tadashi wrote:

 DOOMBREAD wrote:


In real life... Well, as someone who takes this game very seriously, this may sound odd, but I picked the Imperium because it sounded cool. I would not support it IRL.

I support it because its AWESOME, and I would still support the Imperium if they suddenly dropped out of the sky and annexed us...because they reward those who support them. If I survive the war of pacification (no way in hell the whole world will just bow to the Imperium), I might just become planetary nobility, or even a Rogue Trader.

Well, I may outwardly support it (y'know, just to survive) but I would not believe what they did was just.

It doesn't matter whether you believe them to be just or not...if you submit, they will accept/reward you.

It's like Nazis - they also belived that they are right :-)

and btw they should start fighting demons with love...

 DarthMarko wrote:


and btw they should start fighting demons with love...

That's not gonna end well - I'm not really of any mind to spend eternity getting tortured/raped in the Circles of Slaanesh.

 Tadashi wrote:

 DarthMarko wrote:


and btw they should start fighting demons with love...

That's not gonna end well - I'm not really of any mind to spend eternity getting tortured/raped in the Circles of Slaanesh.

So in 40k getting tortured/raped = love :-)

chicks man they fight for chicks...... In caiphas cain novels during R&R troopers are known to relax with joygirls, after the fighting is over of course.... just a little more incentive to win

this is how id look at it a great all mighty deamon comes befor you and says " im going to kill every one and every thing dear too you and you cant stop me" do you let him proceed or do you fix you bayonet and stab him in his alkalies tendon.

me id laugh and fight if you have to die better on your feet then sniveling on the ground.

and as far as empowering the dark gods well looks like theirs no way around it just do what you can don't make any pointless strife or war.