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Ok so the Night Fight rules say units out of 36" cannot be targeted becasue they cannot be seen. Can an indirect barrage weapon still target them, or did I just answere my own question (they cannot be targeted)?

You just answered your own question.
Barrage let's you ignore LOS, but you still need to be able to target the enemy.

Gotchya. Seemed kinda odd but hey, rules is rules!

Well I watched a NOVA game were the dude is like "O doesn't matter" it's barrage(during night fight). Not sure if the issue was it was over 36" or for the +2 on the cover save(center of template). Either way got me thinking too.

It's tricky on 2 levels, as no LOS should negate the dark as they're just lobbing the shot..

Also as the the cover saves, with 12-24, 24-36, cover is meant to be taken from the centre of the blast marker, and if you hit with the 5" blast, all hits will be within 12", thusly would that disallow the shrouded/stealth save?

It should, but it doesn't. The RAW is clear that a unit cannot be targetted by any type of weapon beyond the 36" limit. Its not just a LOS issue.

LOS and Targeting aside, how DOES the fact that the shot is coming form the center hole on a barrage weapon work with night fight? Im guessing you would not get your cover save since you are only 3-4" away from the center hole. Interesting........

Wound allocation is done from the centre of the blast. Determining if they have stealth/shrouded doesn't come from the blast but the unit firing.

Fair enough

What if its ordinance barrage can that shoot at 36' away during night fighting?

 Chaos Santa wrote:
What if its ordinance barrage can that shoot at 36' away during night fighting?

No.
Being ordnance doesn't allow the barrage Weapons to ignore targeting rules.

So if Night Fighting is in effect theirs no weapons that can fire past 36 inches away?

 Chaos Santa wrote:
So if Night Fighting is in effect theirs no weapons that can fire past 36 inches away?

No.
Not unless the weapon allows for shooting without targeting. Non spring to mind.

 Chaos Santa wrote:
So if Night Fighting is in effect theirs no weapons that can fire past 36 inches away?

No, but I would assume they could if they have night vision.

Also, a blast or barrage can scatter past 36" and still work.

But for a blast or barrage to scatter past 36' its target must be within the 36' in the first place right?

Correct.

Then I need to correct my IG using friend who likes his manticore and I think their hydras when I'm using Imotekh.

He was telling me since they are ordinance barrage they can fire past the 36 range limit for night fighting but they scatter full, which he got to re roll alot.

It used to be that way in 5th edition. Perhaps your friend is simply mixing old rules with new by mistake.

Yeah the rule is pretty clear. Units outside 36" may not be TARGETED! So even if you are a barrage weapon you cannot lob a shot at the Unit 36" away becasue you cannot TARGET THEM! Now if your Lob a shot at a unit 30" away and it scattters 8" farther and hits a Unit 38" away THAT unit can still be hit and wounded because that unit was not TARGETED.

Thanks all for the help this helps my footslogging night fighting army get to him unhindered.

TheTrans wrote:
It's tricky on 2 levels, as no LOS should negate the dark as they're just lobbing the shot..

Also as the the cover saves, with 12-24, 24-36, cover is meant to be taken from the centre of the blast marker, and if you hit with the 5" blast, all hits will be within 12", thusly would that disallow the shrouded/stealth save?

I agree that the max range is 36". Would you get a 5+ cover save like area terrain, KFF or jink save?

Why wouldnt you?

Barrage has no effect on your ability to take cover saves

The barrage rule states cover saves are determined and wound allocation is coming from the center of the blast marker, not the firing model. The unit location shouldn't impact this, and unless it scatters or your standing in terrain.. it should be no cover save. Yes?

But the target unit is granted the special rule by determining the range between the firing unit and the targetted unit, so the stealth/shrouded has already been established.

Then you would work out cover saves based on the location of the template and apply the relevant bonuses.

So they get a cover save.

Cheers

Andrew

 Roci wrote:
The barrage rule states cover saves are determined and wound allocation is coming from the center of the blast marker, not the firing model. The unit location shouldn't impact this, and unless it scatters or your standing in terrain.. it should be no cover save. Yes?

That is further along the process than when you determine the range between the units, which is what determines if stealth or shrouded applies

 Byte wrote:
Well I watched a NOVA game were the dude is like "O doesn't matter" it's barrage(during night fight). Not sure if the issue was it was over 36" or for the +2 on the cover save(center of template). Either way got me thinking too.

The other part of night fighting is if the shot scatters, use the original distance. so if you shoot something 12-24" away and scatter onto yourself you get stealth. if you scatter into the 24-36" shroud range, they just get stealth. So you can still scatter past 36", just keep the original distance measured.

PLEASE don't revive threads that have been dormant for more than a month.