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Hi guys. I’ve been having a tough time with a some Grey Knights in the past, and am trying to come up with a suitable list to challenge them. So, I’ve been pondering this list as a counter to Grey Knights and Draigowing, and don’t know how well this will do against them, or how I will handle the Deepstriking Paladins. Any Advice, Suggestions, or comments are appreciated. Trying this out to play small 1000 point games.

Lias Issodon-140
(Forgeworld character who gives entire army stealth, -1 to enemy reserve rolls, and has a special “power”. Also has a Sternguard bolter with high range.)

Tactical Squad-185
10 Marines with Lascannon, Plasma Gun
Tactical Squad-185
10 Marines with Lascannon, Plasma Gun
Tactical Squad-185
10 Marines with Lascannon, Plasma Gun

Vindicator-125
Siege Shield

And that leaves me with 180 points left to spend. Another Vindicator maybe?

Vindicator and some auto cannons should do it, maybe some terminators if you can afford points.

Thanks Klown. As in Autocannons, how about a Mortis Pattern Dreadnought?

Mortis pattern would work fine, but if you could do Autocannon Lascannon predators it would be even better. Gives you that extra 6" movement and still shoot all the weapons. Remember, pop smoke as often as you can you don't want psycannons to end you. Good luck. If you can save up for a vindi

Guard allies marbo. His demo charge will give you several times his points easy in dead paladins if they deep strike. Vindicators would also work for taking down paladins just make sure you hide them where they cant get to them as they deep strike. Also your more likely to kill paladins with a melta then a plasma gun. the plasma may cause more wounds but they will be allocated everywhere. Powerfist terminators will also help take them down as well. Insta death is your friend against paladins.

A libby with null zone+ vindicator shot will trash a paladin blob instantly. Although another vindicator is also a good call in case he takes one of them out.

A vindicator+shield is only 125, not 145 points.

I wouldn't use the auto cannons if your worried about Draigo wing, termies still gets his 2+ save and it's not instant death so still won't kill paladins. I'd go with another vindicator.

I like the idea of a 2nd Vinicator + Siege Shield. I REALLY like the idea of an Aegis Defense line for them to hide behind and/or roll over with safety.

Mind you this is a losing strategy Vs Gunline or any shooty army with >24" AT weapons

Also consider Rhinos for your Tac Squads

Well, I would kit them out with Rhinos, but the main point with the Tactical squad is to hide in cover and wait for the Paladins to come to me. My Special Character gives the entire army stealth.

A predator with las cannons would be able to deal with terminators and paladins from a afar ang give you some anti-tank power, you almost have enough spare points for one.

Slight concern with the vindicator's range and if things are deep striking in you may be firing it back in towards your own forces; I would stick with one. OR get rid and get two TL Lascannon toating razor backs to give you some va-va-voom if you need to get some objectives.

This would free you up to drop lascannons from the tactical squads in favour of multi-melta/PlasmaGun (Melta gun if struggling for points) combination - not sure how the points work out on this one but deep striking paladins next to three multi-meltas will not make their day. Would it save you enough for another MM on an attack bike?

This bike could serve as a sacrifical unit to engage anything in close combat to take the pressure off your shooting. Similarly breaking one SM unit down into combat squads would give you more grey knight fodder to slow them down.

Also dropping the lascannons would stop you from shooting them at long range and wasting the small arms fire in the units. Don't you just love it when a small gut kills a terminator!

 Dr. Serling wrote:
A libby with null zone+ vindicator shot will trash a paladin blob instantly. Although another vindicator is also a good call in case he takes one of them out.

A vindicator+shield is only 125, not 145 points.

The problem is DA don't have Null zone.

just thinking if you have points left over, maybe combi plasmas on the sergeants?

 Iron Father 575 wrote:
Well, I would kit them out with Rhinos, but the main point with the Tactical squad is to hide in cover and wait for the Paladins to come to me. My Special Character gives the entire army stealth.

Well you could combat squad them. Have the heavy weapon in the terrain getting stealth while you drive around with the cover of the rhino shooting your plasma or melta from inside the rhino. Now it mnakes him waste a turn shooting at a vehicle and not the squishy insides.

I still think the Vindie is probably your best bet to deal with the pallies. That or Plasma cannon Dev squad, or both. lol When they DS they will be in a nice tight circle or he will run them to get out of that cirlce, either way its truely win, win for you. Also make yourself so there is no real room for him to fit behind or falnking you. You want him to have to DS right in front of your army. So he will have to take the whole armie firepower and not just half of it.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the replies guys.

White Ninja: The only problem with this is that I probably wont be able to take out all of the Paladin squad. I could get lucky, but if I don't the Paladins will kill Marbo and get first blood.

BewareofTom: Yes, I was actually considering that, it would be pretty useful.

balsak_da_mighty: It does help. I don't have a second Vindicator yet, but could get one or proxy.

Alright guys. So about my character, how does everyone think he is? Is he good in this list?

As a whole I think he isn't bad. But I honestly don't see the help he is going to do for you against GK's. What is he equiped with. Is he a special captain basically chapter master what?

I don't see there firepower being the problem against you. Its when they get into combat. So trying to stop them from getting into combat is really what you need to do. That character doesn't really help with that. He is only 140 points so its not alot of points spent on HQ. But think there might be a better option. Libbys are really nice at this point with some of the powers out there. Roughly the same cost as well.

Well, shooty Chapter Master with BS 6, and a 30 inch Sternguard round Boltgun. Gives entire army Stealth, and has a Power Weapon. He also has a power: at the beginning of the game, after both sides have deployed I can pick one enemy Monstrous Creature, Squad or vehicle. If it is a MC or a Squad, I roll a D6 against that unit. They then take that many armour saves distributed as shooting attacks. Against a vehicle, it suffers a glancing hit.

I think the libby would last longer and be more effective against us GK players. Is the character made up? Or does he have his own set of rules?

He has his own set of rules, and is in one of the Badab war books. I've been using him recently to effect, and mostly because of the Stealth special rule.

As for your char. I don't see him helping over much against Draigo wing. GK don't have much in the way of AP 2-3 other than rending, however against other threats he seems pretty decent

So, played a few matches today. One of them I used this list modified to 1500 against Draigowing. I ended up losing the mission (Relic) but wiped out his Paladin blob. His Stormraven really did me in, took out both my Vindicators.

Well just an FYI the pallies lost characters in the new FAQ.

I don't knkow if you say that yet.

Didn't think about the Stormraven. What did his list look like?

What do you mean pallies lost character?

They'll no longer be able to 'spread out' wounds using LOS (much like Nob Bikers) now thanks to the recent round of FAQs.

No allocation wounds?

I guess you didn't run into this problem that often. When Paladins were counted as characters (up until the FAQ a day or two ago), they could use the 'Look Out Sir' rule to spread wounds around amongst the group, which worked quite well for a squad full of two wound models. As an example, if you went to shoot at a Paladin squad with a plasma weapon and caused a wound and the closest Paladin had only one wound, the GK player could use the Look Out Sir rule and have any Paladin within 6" (this was also removed from the FAQs) take the wound instead of the closest Paladin who could have easily died had he not made his 5++ save. The end result is, you likely cause a wound but instead of removing a model, one member of the squad loses a wound and they remain just as potent as they were.

Yes, I read the FAQ, and he reminded me. His list was something like Draigo, 10 Pallies with goodies, 10 Strike Knights, and a Stormraven. He was actually playing friendly (Didn't take Apoth).

Libby-150
Epistolary, Null Zone, Gate of Infinity

Terminator Squad-200
5 with TH/SS

Iron Clad-135
Double CC weapons
Lucius Drop Pod-65

Tactical Squad-185
10 Marines with Lascannon, Plasma Gun
Tactical Squad-185
10 Marines with Lascannon, Plasma Gun

Vindicator-125
Siege Shield

So this is around 1050 points. Ironclad drops down first turn and takes care of other troop, which will normally be a strike squad. That will get me first blood. Libby goes with Termies who can go and Assault the remnants of the Pallies after the Vindi and Tac squads have shot. What do you guys think?

cant assault out of a drop pod, only shot, and you can snap-fire the drop pod, go with a Multi-Melta and Heavy Flamer(the the Close Combat weapon)
drop him behind a tank turn 1 if you have room (or now to the side) move 6 inches out, and blow away the back armor with the Multi-Melta then heavy flamer the squad,
snap-fire the drop pod at the units too.

I'm pretty sure tanks count for fire blood too, sense they are a unit.

It is a Forgeworld Drop pod that allows the Dreadnought to Assault when it comes out first turn. My regular Grey Knight opponent never brings any tanks, and not many Paladin armies would at 1k.

ohhh the assault pods, my bad xD alright
this seems to be a solid list then, but on a separate note, killing Terms is basically a ton of Shooting all just unloading into them, or as you have gone termys v termys