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So you guys know that I am looking for some models 'juves' to count as Rattlings, this has got me some ribbing from some people I know.

Now I have seen Nazi Orks, and know of one occasion when a passer by complained about someone's Tallarn army, saying it was racist.

So the question is: How far can one go before the invisible line is crossed?

This whole game is based around a Grim Dark future, the bloodiest regimes imaginable. Remember that Innocence Proves Nothing, and in fact does not exist as everyone is guilty of something... which is kind of true IRL... and gives the background some much captivating depth.

So what's your take?

Well some very interesting thoughts put forwards.

The jibes I got for wanting to use 'juves' were in good fun, just thought I would clarify that.

The Ork army was actually a great parody, Orkifying (for want of a better word) the theme. But then skinheads and Orks have a lot in common, imo, and such a parody is a good way of poking fun at them. It was some years back though, and haven't seen it since.

The line seems to me to be down to personal perceptions, taste and sensitivity. As far as I see it, as long as there is a particular idea and/or narrative, anything goes in 40K.

Edit:

Okay, a friend has just put forward an idea that even I would say is crossing the line, as far as what I would even consider playing against let alone have the audacity to put together. Lets just say it is a Slaanesh theme and leave it at that.

 Polonius wrote:
Since the inevitable "Nazi Atrocities are roughly the same as others" argument has come up, I feel the need to explain why it's Nazism, and not the others, that bother people.

It's the concept of the other. Name genocides commited by industrialized, white, protestent christian governments against other white people. I'll give you as long as you'd like.

The reason Nazism is the terror to Europe and America is because Germany is not that different than us. They're educated, industrial, christian, and western. For a country that similar to us to go down that path shows that there is a dark heart lurking anywhere.

Russians killing russians? Nobody really understands Russia (except maybe russians). China is the embodiment of the East. Seeing genocide and atrocities there is expected, as they are "different" cultures.

That's not the case in Germany. If it can happen there, it can happen anywhere.

I am not sure that agree, but then again I am from a country that was in it from the beginning. The first French republic was genocidal, and the Americans had no qualms about siding with them.

As I say, it must be a perspective thing.

So the old rule of no religion or politics please, prevails as a line.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
But everything is religion or politics!

Well with big brass knobs on.

 yeri wrote:
sorry if this is a bit old, but if you want WWII germans for a 40k army why not the Afrikacorps? my great uncle was actually captured by them and he's got some stories about how they were generally decent people who realized they were in the wrong, but kept fighting to keep their homeland from being destroyed.
there's actually a story about when they were first captured they were brought before Rommel and he saw a Star of David pendant one of them was wearing. he yanked it off the guy's neck threw it on the ground and burred it with his foot before telling the man: "you never had this, understood?"

May work for Imperial Guard. Rommel wasn't a Nazi, never went with the party line and never gave the party salute. Shame he didn't serve in Europe, as I am sure he would not have allowed Roma conscripts to have been taken to the concentration camps.

[Boring history lesson] Roughly 50% of Europe's Roma were murdered in the holocaust, and as an after thought, and are still subject to persecution in some eastern and southern parts of Europe today. /[boring history lesson]


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fishy bob wrote:
I'm currently working on a prophet Muhammed themed army.

So that would be lots of priests and SOB then. Not really original imho.

 yeri wrote:

Unless Muhammed is an empty base with a couple of footprints, or a sculpting blank painted stark white (how Muslims portray him in historical illustrations) please do not post that here. honestly with what happened this week, you probably shouldn't make the army at all. if a low budget troll can get a bunch of people killed, that army will at least get the game a fatwa, so please don't.

I know your from the US, but as one that comes from a country that has suffered American backed terrorism, I can only say that your lip needs stiffening.

*GW Nottingham receives Fatwa, new signs put out side GW stores topped with an Aquilla*



or more likely



That is the problem with you Americans. You make speak the language, but you never inherited the backbone.

 reds8n wrote:

Frakhead wrote:

 yeri wrote:
sorry if this is a bit old, but if you want WWII germans for a 40k army why not the Afrikacorps? my great uncle was actually captured by them and he's got some stories about how they were generally decent people who realized they were in the wrong, but kept fighting to keep their homeland from being destroyed.
there's actually a story about when they were first captured they were brought before Rommel and he saw a Star of David pendant one of them was wearing. he yanked it off the guy's neck threw it on the ground and burred it with his foot before telling the man: "you never had this, understood?"

May work for Imperial Guard. Rommel wasn't a Nazi, never went with the party line and never gave the party salute. Shame he didn't serve in Europe, as I am sure he would not have allowed Roma conscripts to have been taken to the concentration camps.

I'm sorry but this is utter nonsense.

The idea of Rommel being, essentially, " a nice Nazi-lite" has been comprehensively debunked seval times now.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1097643/The-real-Rommel-Enduring-myth-decent-Nazi-debunked.html

He was an out and out nazi, who stongrly supported the party line.
He only had his position due to the Nazi regime.

The German Field Marshal Erwin Rommel achieved a rare feat for any military commander - he became a legend in his own lifetime - and he remains the best known German general of World War Two in the English speaking world.

In fact, Rommel was acutely aware of the power of propaganda in developing his career and reputation. He assiduously courted the German government's media machine, the Ministry of Information and Propaganda run by Joseph Goebbels. Rommel's interest arose from the fact that his position in the German army was entirely dependent on Hitler's patronage. Since he had never been staff trained, the normal professional route to high command was not open to him.

His book Infantry Attacks, however, which detailed his extraordinary feats of bravery in World War One, caught Hitler's attention, and the Führer gave him the command of his bodyguard battalion during the Polish campaign of 1939

Have you got information that does not come from a tabloid? nothing wrong with the Daily Mail per se, but it is quite sensationalist. Monty is said to have admired Rommel, which is good enough for me.


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 Niner009 wrote:
I think a good example is to reference the source but not necessarily copy it straight down...for instance, in the transfer sheets for the guard tanks there are some symbols that look like a hammer from the communist flag, which are designed to be included with a soviet/red army theme, but they aren't the true sickle and hammer so no one can claim offense to it....if you want to do Nazis, maybe do a plus sign instead of a swastika, or maybe the knight's cross.....as for kids....children fight, its a fact of war...even in the source material there are guardsmen who are under 18 (i think the main character from 15 hours was 17)

I think the cutoff for the nazis was 14....so I think that would be all right....don't make them wee lads, but I don't see an issue with teens

In the UK it is 16, and has been since forever as far as I know.

Background wise I have 8 year olds as PDF, which is pretty much the medieval age of non-front line troops. Training starts at 3, which is taken from the age that Kung Fu and other martial arts were taught (maybe they still are), you are picked at birth to actually do military service.

The Orks that I saw had a Orky skull in the centre, as I said, the whole theme was orkyfied (is there an actual word for making things Orky?)


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 yeri wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
What happened this week?

an Egyptian copt trolled Islam on youtube with a movie called "the inoccence of muslims" (I won't even gratify it by capitalizing it) now a mob stormed our embassy in Libya and killed our ambassador and smeared his blood on the walls. they're storming our embassies all across the middle east right now.

Also I'm normally not one for being PC, but seriously these people don't know the rules of the internet, or even that free speech can't be controlled by the government. they see a troll and feed him with blood.

What? I heard a Jewish business man was involved in the mix as well as that nut job priest you have in the states... The one that was going to burn books (no good can come from a guy who wants to burn books)