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Thinking something like

HQ
biker boss PK CB BP (warlord)
mega boss CB BP

ELITE
5 lootas x 3

TROOPS
20 Shoota boys 1 big shoota, nob pk bp armor bigshoota
20 Shoota boys 1 big shoota, nob bp armor bigshoota
10 Gretchin
5 Nob Bikers, (1 upgraded to painboy), 2 PK, banner and bp
4 MANZ 3 kombi skorchas w/ dedicate BW transport (rolla, 1 big shoota, red paint and grot rigger)

FAST
Dakkajet extra supa shoota, fighta ace

HEAVY
Battlewagon with deffrolla 1 big shoota red paint and grot rigger

Points may be a tad off don't have army builder with me currently,

THEORETICAL TACTICS (WUTS DAT?)
Idea is to have wagons push forward with MANZ in one, and shoota boys in other. if MANZ ride goes down shoota boys jump ship one way and manz steal their ride. Bikes head for parking lots/easy to pick off units or deal with S8 ap2 fists/threats while MANZ deal with AP3 ones.. MANZ head for death company/things with power swords) and once having dealt with those threats, find an obj in enemy territory and hunker down (in the best situations in cover where I can go to ground for AP2 shots). Lootas hit light vehicles/flyers/anything that comes into my half of board. Gretchin held in reserve and walk on to closest home obj (or hide in ruins in KP missions if any). Footsloggin 20 boys (no PK on nob) moves midfield towards cover and provides extra small arms fire, contesting/controlling obj or being a sacrificial lamb (i will play them very conservatively if I know my opponent will be dropping killy units in my deployment, to protect the lootas/gretchin)



I have only played one tourney (1500 points, list was similiar, less MANZ, no bW's and MANZ had a trukk) and did alright. I felt my major weakness was completing turns on time moving 40 boys etc. Never did a game get past turn 3. >.<

In the tourney the bikes performed great, killing anything they touched (aside from a lousy round of combat vs some wraiths in which my bikes ran away ! ) and the mobility of the MANZ (they were only in a trukk @ 1500)... Trukk always gave up first blood, and only performed worth a dang if i got first turn.. The boys were largely ignored / used as distractions for manz (especially once manz were going to ground in no man's land from vindicator fire to prevent giving up a KP)

I know my body count/boy count is low... but as I said above, time is a problem for me it seems. I pick targets fast, roll as fast as possible etc, just the physical act of deploying/moving so many models does take a bit of time. I plan on bringing a tray/box to carry army table to table with to make things quicker... (40 shoota boys is actually all I own as well... have about 40 choppa boys as well but IDK if the FLGS would like me to proxy much etc)

I feel having the wagon (hopefully) moving the boys for at least a turn or 2 will allow more turns to be completed. I kind of want to try and fit another scoring unit in. Perhaps a unit of gretchin? Also a boom wagon sounds appealing but the points..

Anyhow yo 2 cents would be appreciated!

I think this list is pretty solid the only thing i might do is trade out the megaboss for a big mek w/ shock attack gun, that way you have something else softening up the enemy before your main forces get there, plus i thought the shock attack gun was insane in 5th but now you can move and shoot with it! and the best part is your bs is only going down by one!

Anyways whatever you choose im sure you'll do fine and I wish you the best of luck!

drop the mega warboss with a big mek KFF with cybody freeing up 20pts. use him to help that battlewagon deliver its meganobz. that battlwagon is going to be a huge target, but with that big mek KFF providing a 5+ to the battlewagon and any freindly unit near by within 6"; while also being able to heal any HPs on it.

dont use lootas in small units. either drop them all together to free up points for another dakkajet and another mob of boyz; while also dropping the gretchin to free up more points to add toe the 3rd mob of boyz.

also nobz cant take big shootas.

flaming tadpole wrote:I think this list is pretty solid the only thing i might do is trade out the megaboss for a big mek w/ shock attack gun, that way you have something else softening up the enemy before your main forces get there, plus i thought the shock attack gun was insane in 5th but now you can move and shoot with it! and the best part is your bs is only going down by one!

Anyways whatever you choose im sure you'll do fine and I wish you the best of luck!

Haha SAG is so random and i'm a bit ignorant of it. I just worry without a bosspole my meganobs could get unlucky in combat 1 round then get swept :/ (or just run away from shooting) Thanks for the input! Will have to look more into it!

Gutstuf Ugfang wrote:drop the mega warboss with a big mek KFF with cybody freeing up 20pts. use him to help that battlewagon deliver its meganobz. that battlwagon is going to be a huge target, but with that big mek KFF providing a 5+ to the battlewagon and any freindly unit near by within 6"; while also being able to heal any HPs on it.

dont use lootas in small units. either drop them all together to free up points for another dakkajet and another mob of boyz; while also dropping the gretchin to free up more points to add toe the 3rd mob of boyz.

also nobz cant take big shootas.

I like the KFF mek, i just worry about having to dodge challenges with him and not getting to use his LD/bosspole? (can you decline a challenge and still use your bosspole, albeit on the nobz LD?)

I usually take lootas in squads of 5 or 10, unless im playing 2k and restricted to 1 FOC in which I will take 2 squads of 7 and 1 of 6. Rarely does anyone dedicate much to killing them because of the waggons/bikes chugging forward it seems. Maybe my meta isn't very aggressive. (i also do not have a 2nd jet and wont have it by tourney)... I dont like squads bigger than 10 cause they cant go to ground. I don't like risking the points taking 6-8 or in the event they do take 2 casualties and run so I try to keep them 5 or 10. (2k list may now have 2 squads of 10 instead of 7/7/6 potentially freeing up slots for who the hell knows)

Nobs can take big shootas. Entry says any ork out of 10 can take one, not ork boy. Army builder even has a checkbox upgrade for em' (3 36" precision shots in each mob awfully cool too)

Yes. The only thing you lose should you not accept the challange is their attacks.

If you look at the codex under under what wargear the nob boss upgrade can take it doesnt allow a big shoota. Only an ork boy can and only for every 10 boyz. When you upgrade a boy to nob he no longer counts as a boy and cant take a big shoota.

 Gutstuf Ugfang wrote:
Yes. The only thing you lose should you not accept the challange is their attacks.

If you look at the codex under under what wargear the nob boss upgrade can take it doesnt allow a big shoota. Only an ork boy can and only for every 10 boyz. When you upgrade a boy to nob he no longer counts as a boy and cant take a big shoota.

looted this reply from the-waaagh

"Just so its clear and specific; if you go to your Ork Codex and look at the entries for Ork Boyz you'll notice for the weapons section it says that for every 10 Orks in a mob, one Ork can exchange etc. " It says ork, not ork boy I think. An ork nob is still an ork and can be given a big shoota upgrade.


If you refuse a challenge you can't use that characters leadership that round, but I didn't know if that extended to bosspoles too?

skyfi wrote:

 Gutstuf Ugfang wrote:
Yes. The only thing you lose should you not accept the challange is their attacks.

If you look at the codex under under what wargear the nob boss upgrade can take it doesnt allow a big shoota. Only an ork boy can and only for every 10 boyz. When you upgrade a boy to nob he no longer counts as a boy and cant take a big shoota.

looted this reply from the-waaagh

"Just so its clear and specific; if you go to your Ork Codex and look at the entries for Ork Boyz you'll notice for the weapons section it says that for every 10 Orks in a mob, one Ork can exchange etc. " It says ork, not ork boy I think. An ork nob is still an ork and can be given a big shoota upgrade.


If you refuse a challenge you can't use that characters leadership that round, but I didn't know if that extended to bosspoles too?

yes a nob is an ork, but if you look p100 of the ork codex in the bottom right hand corner of the ork boyz troop selection it reads,

CHARACTER:
-One Boy may be upgraded to Nob..Xpts
-He may replace his choppa with one of the following
--------big choppa...Xpts
--------power klaw...Xpts
-He may take one of the following:
--------eavy armor(if not an Ard Boy Nob)...Xpts
--------bosspole...Xpts

once you upgrade an ork boy to a nob those are the options/wargear available for him, nothing else.

as for the bosspole you can use it to re roll any failed morale test, then one wound is inflicted on the unit except the character with the bosspole.

 Gutstuf Ugfang wrote:

skyfi wrote:

 Gutstuf Ugfang wrote:
Yes. The only thing you lose should you not accept the challange is their attacks.

If you look at the codex under under what wargear the nob boss upgrade can take it doesnt allow a big shoota. Only an ork boy can and only for every 10 boyz. When you upgrade a boy to nob he no longer counts as a boy and cant take a big shoota.

looted this reply from the-waaagh

"Just so its clear and specific; if you go to your Ork Codex and look at the entries for Ork Boyz you'll notice for the weapons section it says that for every 10 Orks in a mob, one Ork can exchange etc. " It says ork, not ork boy I think. An ork nob is still an ork and can be given a big shoota upgrade.


If you refuse a challenge you can't use that characters leadership that round, but I didn't know if that extended to bosspoles too?

yes a nob is an ork, but if you look p100 of the ork codex in the bottom right hand corner of the ork boyz troop selection it reads,

CHARACTER:
-One Boy may be upgraded to Nob..Xpts
-He may replace his choppa with one of the following
--------big choppa...Xpts
--------power klaw...Xpts
-He may take one of the following:
--------eavy armor(if not an Ard Boy Nob)...Xpts
--------bosspole...Xpts

once you upgrade an ork boy to a nob those are the options/wargear available for him, nothing else.

as for the bosspole you can use it to re roll any failed morale test, then one wound is inflicted on the unit except the character with the bosspole.

Above where it says the wargear allowed for the character, it lists upgrades for ANY ork in the mob... Army builder lets me take one.. and giving your nob a big shoota seems to be a pretty common tactic around these boards esp. after 6th/precision shots.

More or less the argument is from my understanding.... A nob is an ork, who like a boy, is also an ork therefore the line "any ORK may replace his shoota/slugga for a big shoota etc"

I know that if you refuse a challenge with your warboss, you can't use his LD9 that round... but does it actually extend to the bosspole? ie. can't re roll nob's LD 7 with warboss' pole because warboss was cowering that tturn?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440264a&prodId=prod1060144

skyfi wrote:


Above where it says the wargear allowed for the character, it lists upgrades for ANY ork in the mob... Army builder lets me take one.. and giving your nob a big shoota seems to be a pretty common tactic around these boards esp. after 6th/precision shots.

More or less the argument is from my understanding.... A nob is an ork, who like a boy, is also an ork therefore the line "any ORK may replace his shoota/slugga for a big shoota etc"

I know that if you refuse a challenge with your warboss, you can't use his LD9 that round... but does it actually extend to the bosspole? ie. can't re roll nob's LD 7 with warboss' pole because warboss was cowering that tturn?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440264a&prodId=prod1060144

yes a nob is an ork, as well as an ork boy is an ork. however the question isnt weither or not they are orks, its what wargear can a nob take while leading a mob of ork boyz and what can an ork boy take while in a specific size unit of ork boyz.

1. "NOB" and ork "BOY" denotes rank, experiance, and physical difference.

2. once a boy is upgraded to a "NOB" then he can only replace his choppa with a PK or replace his slugga and choppa for a big choppa. once you upgrade an ork boy to a nob then you can only pay for wargear available to that model.

the same thing applys to the marine codex. it says for every 10 marines you can replace one marine's bolter with a flamer, meltagun, plasma gun. then you can replace one marine's bolter with a missile launcher, multi melta, heavy bolter, lascannon, plasma cannon. while the space marine "SERGEANT" can only replace his bolt pistol and chainsword with combi weapons, powersword or powerfist, and can take melta bombs and a homing beacon.

point being that once you upgrade the basic model in that unit to a different model/higher rank and that model/ higher rank is given a different set of wargear, then that is the only wargear available to that model.

3. the fact that GW made a model of a PK nob with what they call a "big shoota" is a mistake on their part. if you scroll down to the wargear listed for the nob with the "big shoota", big shoota isnt listed and to add insult to injury on GWs part every model of an ork big shoota is a belt fed machine gun and are S5 AP5 Assualt3. all shootas for ork boyz are S4 APmag fed. all warboss models except Ghaz, have shootas modeled as mag fed shootas with medium barrels or double barrel mag fed shootas making them "TL" shootas. all nob/mega nob models only have meduim barrels, meduim barrel kombi shootas, or meduim barrel drum mag double barrel shootas or TL shootas.

4. the ork codex even gives an examples on what the difference is between sluggas, shootas, kombi shootas, and big shootas.

5. if you look at the nob elite unit choice and their wargear, they cant even take a big shoota. they can only take TL shootas, and kombie shootas to repace their sluggas and choppas.

the simple answer is you can only equip that model with what is allowed in the codex for that specific model.

Army builder is not a defense afraik, as army builder is riff with illegal list options sadly.

so this is RAW you're arguing?

1. A nob isn't an Ork (codex ispeciic 1 of 10 orks not boys.
2. The mistake on game workshops website is just that and nothing more?


I just don't agree with you. I don't think there is a consensus on the matter either. Really comes down to your local area.

My argument is, a nob IS an Ork, the fig in website shouldn't. Be unfixed with illegal wargear for that long...

And could you not just upgrade a boy to a big shoota, then upgrade him to a nob? No where
In FAQ does it say he would switch out a big shoota if he had one, ONLY a regular shoota....


So logical deduction tells me if the boy with a big shoota got strong enough he could be promoted by way of his taking control of his mob (with big shoota from his boy days in hand still...)

Not sure where rules as written disallows this?? And no I'm not giving the nob a bi shoota, give it to a boy who is then upgraded to nob..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It also seems properly orky! Wouldn't the biggest and best have da beat stuffs?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It just seems almost that the majority of the support (even on dakka it looks like from my search-fu unless i haven't dug deep enough) is that you can upgrade a big shoota boy to a nob w/ PK/big shoota RAW....


however RAI it is debated? but... I don't see the debate... The strongest ork would merely steal the shiniest bestest stuff from the weak gits. who gonna stop em??? My thoughts at least...


I think someone in another DAKKA thread mentioned the codex pages where they actually depict a ork nob with PK/big shoota on page 88 and another page # ill edit into this after finding (will confirm page 88 from their post as not at home to look at my codex)



I played this list last night (well a close version... I dropped 1 squad of 5 lootas, added a 6th loota to one squad, and gave the 2nd squad of boys' nob a PK, and added one mega nob/big choppa on one nob biker)

It performed well. I had some unlucky tarpitting with bikes from wraiths due to 3+ and fearless (forgot my hammer of wrath attacks as well) and got lucky on last turn making 8 warriors break and sweeping them/ with 3 boys and a nob contesting obj they and buddies next to em holding. (nob was my MVP and will have his big shoota/the biggest slugga you ever seen depending on who im playing... who will be receiving paint soon for Nerdfest09 's Golden Bathtub comp.) My manz wagon was stunned then blown up before going very far, leaving them out of game for 3 turns hiking.

My boys were almost all whittled away. at end of T5 we rolled and got a 2 and ended it there, with my MVP nob and a lone boy (he had 3 boys left with him when charging 8 warriors) contesting that obj.. But still had 2 manz + boss left (warscythe lord and AP2 destoryers hurt em bad), full strength biker squad and biker boss all doing work in his deployment contesting everything/scoring linebreaker/attempting to kill his lord... who naturally passed every 3+ phase shifter save.... Like 5-6 a turn for 2 turns >.<

My buddies necron list was something like.... :


Surfboard lord with phase shifter/res orb
4 wraiths
2 crypteks 1 w/ teleport/flamer other with some 2 shot rod
5 warriors x 2
8 warriors w/ ghost ark
10 immortals (tesla) in night scythe
8 immortals (gauss) in night scythe
Spyder
3 Scarabs


Granted he is a newer player but he put a good showing in. We were going to do a bat rep but my camera sucks and my room is cluttered/akwardly arranged so hard to get whole table in photo. His lord hung out hiding from loota fire for a bit and wasn't too aggressive but was a beat stick once he decided to commit him. end of game had megaboss and 2 manz locked in combat with him after he had felled 2, put a wound on warboss, and had only received 1 wound in return (and a lousy measly S8 one so no ID)... He also didn't challenge my warboss which I mentioned post game, it wouldn't of made too big of a difference but he could of ended up ganking that boss and then possibly sweeping the 4 manz with a bad LD roll or what have you


Playing the list made me think that I could use another scoring unit, and for the points I'm thinking gretchin? (what to replace though?)

skyfi wrote:
so this is RAW you're arguing?

1. A nob isn't an Ork (codex ispeciic 1 of 10 orks not boys.
2. The mistake on game workshops website is just that and nothing more?


I just don't agree with you. I don't think there is a consensus on the matter either. Really comes down to your local area.

My argument is, a nob IS an Ork, the fig in website shouldn't. Be unfixed with illegal wargear for that long...

And could you not just upgrade a boy to a big shoota, then upgrade him to a nob? No where
In FAQ does it say he would switch out a big shoota if he had one, ONLY a regular shoota....


So logical deduction tells me if the boy with a big shoota got strong enough he could be promoted by way of his taking control of his mob (with big shoota from his boy days in hand still...)

Not sure where rules as written disallows this?? And no I'm not giving the nob a bi shoota, give it to a boy who is then upgraded to nob..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It also seems properly orky! Wouldn't the biggest and best have da beat stuffs?

1. the issue isnt whether or not a Nob is an ork. the issue is whether he can be upgraded with a big shoota. if the wargear is not under what that upgraded model can take then that model can not take that upgrade. end of line.
example: dark eldar kabalite warriors can be put into squads of 5-20 kabalite warriors. for every 10 kabalite warriors 1 can take a dark lance or a splinter cannon. 1 kabalite warrior may be upgraded to a sybarite(dark eldar sergeant) both a kabalite warrior and a sybarite are dark eldar, but the sybarite has wargear options under its "CHARACTER OPTIONS" that only it can take. if a warrior was upgraded to a have a splinter cannon and then upgraded to a sybarite, then it would have to drop the splinter cannon and pick from the option available to that model and that model only.
the same example can be seen in the marine codex and the other MEQ codexs as well as the ORK codex.

2. if you apply to much logic to GWs decisions you lose, its as simple as that. we've all done it and lost. alot of the stuff they do or rules they FAQ dont make sense. for example a model that is being tank shocked by an ork battlewagon with a deff rolla is allowed to take a cover save. really, a cover save from a molten roller of spiky death that is spinning at thousands of rpms?

3.the fact that GW has a "old model" labeled wrong on their website isnt surprising. they durp up in proof reading their content all the time. whats funny is that they dont even include the "big shoota" in question in his wargear under his stat line. also if you apply the W.Y.S.I.W.I.G.(what you see is what i get) rule to that model it would only have a shoota or a TL shoota.
example: in one of the editions of warhammer fantasy their was screw up with "rules as written" with a rule that stated "...after rolling to hit, re roll all failed misses." the context in which the sentence was written and where it was written in the rules was an indication that GW meant to write "re roll misses", but if you read that part of the sentance as "rules as written", it is actually saying to re roll your hits. some power gamer during an ard boyz tournament used that to his advantage and after that GW ard boyz tournament, GW had to FAQ/ERRATA that specific rule.

4 the reason why they havnt FAQed this spevific issue is that their isnt a general problem understanding that when an "ork BOY" is upgraded to a NOB he is only allowed specific wargear optoins. check other peoples lists for ork army lists and one can see that they have not upgraded their nobz with big shootas simply because the option isnt there.

5.even "if" you were able to give a nob a big shoota then it still would be a negative for the nob. if you give a nob a 2 handed weapon then they would lose their CC weapon bonus attack on the charge. this in turn causing your now S5 model with 3 base attacks to loose 1 out of a possible of 5 attacks on the charge.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
yes on p88 of the ork codex their is a bit bashed nob that is holding a bit that is a big shoota, but the issue is still the same. the big shoota is not available to the nob because it is not in his wargear options.

 Gutstuf Ugfang wrote:

skyfi wrote:
so this is RAW you're arguing?

1. A nob isn't an Ork (codex ispeciic 1 of 10 orks not boys.
2. The mistake on game workshops website is just that and nothing more?


I just don't agree with you. I don't think there is a consensus on the matter either. Really comes down to your local area.

My argument is, a nob IS an Ork, the fig in website shouldn't. Be unfixed with illegal wargear for that long...

And could you not just upgrade a boy to a big shoota, then upgrade him to a nob? No where
In FAQ does it say he would switch out a big shoota if he had one, ONLY a regular shoota....


So logical deduction tells me if the boy with a big shoota got strong enough he could be promoted by way of his taking control of his mob (with big shoota from his boy days in hand still...)

Not sure where rules as written disallows this?? And no I'm not giving the nob a bi shoota, give it to a boy who is then upgraded to nob..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It also seems properly orky! Wouldn't the biggest and best have da beat stuffs?

1. the issue isnt whether or not a Nob is an ork. the issue is whether he can be upgraded with a big shoota. if the wargear is not under what that upgraded model can take then that model can not take that upgrade. end of line.
example: dark eldar kabalite warriors can be put into squads of 5-20 kabalite warriors. for every 10 kabalite warriors 1 can take a dark lance or a splinter cannon. 1 kabalite warrior may be upgraded to a sybarite(dark eldar sergeant) both a kabalite warrior and a sybarite are dark eldar, but the sybarite has wargear options under its "CHARACTER OPTIONS" that only it can take. if a warrior was upgraded to a have a splinter cannon and then upgraded to a sybarite, then it would have to drop the splinter cannon and pick from the option available to that model and that model only.
the same example can be seen in the marine codex and the other MEQ codexs as well as the ORK codex.

2. if you apply to much logic to GWs decisions you lose, its as simple as that. we've all done it and lost. alot of the stuff they do or rules they FAQ dont make sense. for example a model that is being tank shocked by an ork battlewagon with a deff rolla is allowed to take a cover save. really, a cover save from a molten roller of spiky death that is spinning at thousands of rpms?

3.the fact that GW has a "old model" labeled wrong on their website isnt surprising. they durp up in proof reading their content all the time. whats funny is that they dont even include the "big shoota" in question in his wargear under his stat line. also if you apply the W.Y.S.I.W.I.G.(what you see is what i get) rule to that model it would only have a shoota or a TL shoota.
example: in one of the editions of warhammer fantasy their was screw up with "rules as written" with a rule that stated "...after rolling to hit, re roll all failed misses." the context in which the sentence was written and where it was written in the rules was an indication that GW meant to write "re roll misses", but if you read that part of the sentance as "rules as written", it is actually saying to re roll your hits. some power gamer during an ard boyz tournament used that to his advantage and after that GW ard boyz tournament, GW had to FAQ/ERRATA that specific rule.

4 the reason why they havnt FAQed this spevific issue is that their isnt a general problem understanding that when an "ork BOY" is upgraded to a NOB he is only allowed specific wargear optoins. check other peoples lists for ork army lists and one can see that they have not upgraded their nobz with big shootas simply because the option isnt there.

5.even "if" you were able to give a nob a big shoota then it still would be a negative for the nob. if you give a nob a 2 handed weapon then they would lose their CC weapon bonus attack on the charge. this in turn causing your now S5 model with 3 base attacks to loose 1 out of a possible of 5 attacks on the charge.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
yes on p88 of the ork codex their is a bit bashed nob that is holding a bit that is a big shoota, but the issue is still the same. the big shoota is not available to the nob because it is not in his wargear options.

" if a warrior was upgraded to a have a splinter cannon and then upgraded to a sybarite, then it would have to drop the splinter cannon and pick from the option available to that model and that model only.
the same example can be seen in the marine codex and the other MEQ codexs as well as the ORK codex."

What rule explicitly states this? Is this an interpretation? I could care less if you gave a sarge a melta gun, or whatever. more power to you. As long as the rules as written/intended is followed. I seriously doubt that GW's intent (especially since they show us a kitbashed nob with big shoota on page 88... and sell one reflecting the same name, albeit with a smaller double barreled gun)


2. I'm mixed on the cover save vs a rolla thing... for instance if you were behind an ADL and it's not destroyed when the damn thing drives thru it like it should... couldn't you potential hide beneath it and be driven over? etc? or dive behind a rock? Exhaust cloud so thick that driver of wagon couldn't cleary see you etc. I think there are cinematic examples potentially for this one, but... It's annoying none the less. I wish deff rolla was mo' skurry.


3. WYSIWYG, I doubt all ork's will all have guns that look the exact same etc. esp if your clan/mob is made up of approximations of other conquered clans etc. Looted weaponry etc... Hell I build mini-guns for count as twin linked shootas (it has 8 barrels, c'mon!), or big shootas, or even deffguns (just give em little harnesses holding guns)... So to take a on ork ingenuity and creativity in the name of some umie' concept of uniformity seems highly un-orky to me sir.

I have to say that I don't think I, or anyone else positing putting big shootas on their nobs is in any way comparable to someone pulling some d-bag shenanigans like that fell at the ard boy tournament.

The kitbashed nob on page 88,as we were talking about... Why would GW indicate wargear (who's appearance is so rigidly defined by them you suggest) is not allowed both visually on the model there? and with the sale of the model/mislabeling of the one on their website? Could a mek not have manufactured a magazine fed big shoota? could he not have included 2 shortened barrels and 2 magazine feeds to make it wielded one handed by a PK who convinced him to thoroughly enough??

4. or whatever # we are on: plenty of other people including reputable ork generals on Dakka are running nobs with big shootas, and there are plenty of lists here, and on the-waaagh that have them as well.

5.If you take a powerklaw or a big choppa you only get 3 base attacks anyway as a klaw is a specialist weapon, and a big choppa is 2 handed. You only would lose the bonus attack for 2 CCW's if you actually had a choppa and a slugga... Which I'm not taking. It's worth noting that nobs that lead boys are characters and can have precise shots on 6's as I'm sure you know. Therefor giving him a 3 shot 36" range S5 gun makes him a little sniper, especialy vs. panzees, dark panzees, and IG.


If GW comes out and FAQ's it, I'll accept it as that. but until then I'm going to give my nobz big shootas and if somebody really protests in a FLGS tournament I'll switch out another big shoota boy for a shoota boy and say my nob has an oversized slugga.

simple answer is as stated before if the option isnt available for the nob then they cant have that peice of wargear. end of line.

if youre trying to apply fluff to rules then 1. it should be in a different category on this forum and 2. applying fluff doesnt get you any further on the table top... unfortunately.

 Gutstuf Ugfang wrote:
simple answer is as stated before if the option isnt available for the nob then they cant have that peice of wargear. end of line.

if youre trying to apply fluff to rules then 1. it should be in a different category on this forum and 2. applying fluff doesnt get you any further on the table top... unfortunately.

"simple answer is as stated before if the option isnt available for the nob then they cant have that peice of wargear. end of line." so says YOU. Not a consensus, not even the majority of ork players or players. You still refuse to aknowledge that no where in the rules does it say that if you upgrade a big shoota boy to a nob, does he give up his big shoota. that doesn't exist. no rule, no faq, nothin yet. It's not even debatable really in my opinion.


and honestly if you want to be THAT guy, saying I'm bringing up the wrong things in the wrong forums, this is my thread, about MY army list... in which YOU claimed I was breaking the rules and interjected a YMDC situation... so you brought up the rules issue when you quipped "also nobz cant take big shootas."..... Not me, that's not the point of my thread.

I'm not trying to apply fluff, I'm trying to explain that you can't possibly show me a rule in the ork codex/faq's that are published as of now that indicate that a bigshoota-boy upgraded to a nob would have to give up his big-shoota, the only thing that says that is the FAQ in regard to if the mob was upgraded to having shootas first, then a shoota-boy upgraded to a nob, that he would give up his shoota and take a slugga and be "more happy!".....

My argument is that even if then lent an iota of indication as to that a big shoota would revert back to a slugga when He upgrades a PK... that indication isn't written into the rules. I'm not trying to be TFG, but it's one of those situations where RAW actually supports fluff, and you gotta take your wins where you can get them.

Take that to tournament and see what happens. Theres no more that can be said. The statements ive made earlier still stand.

sorry to say skyfi, but gutstuf is right. if the entry says a nob can only take what it says on the entry, so no bigshoota boy upgradeing. i have never seen anyone on here, other then you who try and put big shootas on nobz.

Ima shea turtle!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/433196.page#3973848

For some reason I don't think I'm the only one.

I have always done this, with no problem. When do you purchase the nob? There is no real order on when to pay the points for him.

I buy squad, I give them all shootas, I upgrade one to a Bshoota. Which I have to replace the shoota for. I want BShoota to be Nob. I now have a Nob with a bshoota. I replace his Choppa for a PK which is by rulkes. I am not breaking any rules at all so is legal to do. There is nothing that says the boy with the BShoota can not be the nob.

If I want my Kabalite with a dark lance then I can. Same example. I buy squad of 10 I upgrade one guy to dark lance. He is then upgraded to Kabalite. The only thing is I don't have the proper wargear to upgrade anything further on him as I don't have that wargear any more. They are "options" not "may only take this wargear".

As long as you can take something by following the rules then there should be no problem.

using that poll, it further disproves the statements that the "plenty of other people including reputable ork generals on Dakka are running nobs with big shootas" and "I don't think there is a consensus on the matter either". if one looks just at the poll by itself 80% said its illegal, granted theres only 20 votes total.

You are right the poll is pointless. All it proves is peoples opinions on the matter and not fact.

You have stated that the Nob is in fact a Ork. Right?

So for every 10 in the mob an Ork can exchange his slugga/ Shoota to a Big Shoota. Is the Nob part of the 10 Orks or is he not? He in fact is. So by that you have 9 boys and a nob which are all Orks. So one of them can exchange their Slugga/Shoota to Big Shoota. There is nothing that says it can't be the Nob. If it said one boy can exchange his Slugga/Shoota to a Big Shoota, then you would be right that the Nob could not take it.

Then he has other Options he can take. That actually do not interfer with him having a Big shoota as those you exchange the Choppa for.

I am not so sure how you can not understand that. It is perfectly clear in Black and White.

 Gutstuf Ugfang wrote:
using that poll, it further disproves the statements that the "plenty of other people including reputable ork generals on Dakka are running nobs with big shootas" and "I don't think there is a consensus on the matter either". if one looks just at the poll by itself 80% said its illegal, granted theres only 20 votes total.

The poll results indicte the opposite of what you just said. 17/22 (77% agree that non big shoota is legal)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 balsak_da_mighty wrote:

You are right the poll is pointless. All it proves is peoples opinions on the matter and not fact.

You have stated that the Nob is in fact a Ork. Right?

So for every 10 in the mob an Ork can exchange his slugga/ Shoota to a Big Shoota. Is the Nob part of the 10 Orks or is he not? He in fact is. So by that you have 9 boys and a nob which are all Orks. So one of them can exchange their Slugga/Shoota to Big Shoota. There is nothing that says it can't be the Nob. If it said one boy can exchange his Slugga/Shoota to a Big Shoota, then you would be right that the Nob could not take it.

Then he has other Options he can take. That actually do not interfer with him having a Big shoota as those you exchange the Choppa for.

I am not so sure how you can not understand that. It is perfectly clear in Black and White.

Poll actually supports our position... Regardless, means nothing. I'm leavin for FLGS 2k 1 fOC tourney in an hour so we wil see how it performs/if locals throw a fuss

Rule #1 of 40k-there will be no gaming, only arguing over the rules.

Why does no one use the 'don't go there if it's sketchy' rule?

Whats "sketchy" about it. Its plan and simple if you read the codex.

Ok, no. you cannot have a sybarite with a dark lance. it says, "for every 10 models in the squad, one KABALITE WARRIOR may replace his splinter rifle with:..." it does not say sybarite, and what makes you think its give weapon THEN upgrade to sybarite? im pretty sure this all happens at the same time. so you cannot do the give gun then make a sybarite. so its the same with the nob issue, its not like its in parts, you would do it all at once, not this part then this one.

Nobody at tournament (including 3 other Ork players) said a word to me about it.


Anyhow my 2k (1 foc) scaled up version of this list placed 1st in FLGS 12 (I think) person tourney! My 2nd tourney! Bwoop! Bwoop! Landed 3 wins 13-6 (killpoints) vs. IG (2 valkyrie, 2 leman Russ, 4 chimera, 2 huge blob squads msu in chimeras/valks, 16-0 (big guns ) vs Ork big mek army dredd wagon SAG KFf 60 boys tankbustas burnas and a rolla-kilkannon wagon kopters and stormboys/gretchin, and 8-4 last game vs Necrons, no flyers, monolith, ctan, heavy destroyers.. Had a gargantua that was bigger around then I am in middle of table, rendering my lootas very Inneffective... 37 total battle points, 2nd was orks and someone else I can't remember :( but they got 30 each


Was a really good experience. Can't wait for next one. Won 50$ store credit on my 10$ entry, might have to get a new jet...

Anyhow I'm tired as can be. Knees killin me!

Thanks for all the help with list everybody!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 maxpower3579 wrote:
Ok, no. you cannot have a sybarite with a dark lance. it says, "for every 10 models in the squad, one KABALITE WARRIOR may replace his splinter rifle with:..." it does not say sybarite, and what makes you think its give weapon THEN upgrade to sybarite? im pretty sure this all happens at the same time. so you cannot do the give gun then make a sybarite. so its the same with the nob issue, its not like its in parts, you would do it all at once, not this part then this one.

Idk t the kabalite warrior but if that's what it's entry says than bam. Ork codex says any ORK not "Ork boy"

 maxpower3579 wrote:
Ok, no. you cannot have a sybarite with a dark lance. it says, "for every 10 models in the squad, one KABALITE WARRIOR may replace his splinter rifle with:..." it does not say sybarite, and what makes you think its give weapon THEN upgrade to sybarite? im pretty sure this all happens at the same time. so you cannot do the give gun then make a sybarite. so its the same with the nob issue, its not like its in parts, you would do it all at once, not this part then this one.

Ok my mistake there.

But as has been explained its Ork not Boy, Not Nob just Ork!! And also has been agreed apon is a Nob is an Ork. So there is nothing that says the Nob can not have the Bshoota. Show me proof other wise.

And no it doesn't actually happen at once. How do you upgrade something if its not there to upgrade? ie; the Sybarite. You buy squad. Then you buy upgrade for squad, wheither it be weapons, sgt, or anything else. Then if the Sgt has upgrades then he would go. Now I could do squad, upgrade sgt in this case Nob then I upgrade weapon ie BShoota attaching it to an Ork, which happens to be the Nob. Totally legal by Codex as written. The I can buy the Nob A PK and a Boss Pole if I feel like. If the squad is 20 or 30 then I can further buy Bshootas for another 2 Orks, which happen to be boys this time. But still Orks none the less.