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So I recently have got ahold of the Dark Vengeance and Black Reach marine sets. So even though I dislike marines I'm going to give it a try as my second army. After I painted my Marines, I noticed they have a striking similarity to my line infantry Imperial Guard models (I have my armored fists painted differently.) So I was thinking of running a Space Marine Primary army, with a foot platoon as allies (No vendettas, or tanks, just guardsmen) I was wondering if It would be acceptable fluff to say that the Guardsmen are the Chapters serfs and form an Auxiliary fighting force to assist as needed.

Some Space Marine chapters have auxiliary forces, like you said. The only chapters I can think of off the top of my head that has Auxiliaries recruited from the same worlds as the Space Marines they serve next to are the Ultramarines and the Iron Hands. This also means that if you make your own chapter, you can say your chapter does the same thing the Ultramarines or Iron Hands do.

It is completely acceptable. Space Marines are not really allowed by the High Lords/Codex to use serf armies, and normally would not bother either since serfs cannot drop directly from the sky to battle and sprint at twenty miles an hour through a brick wall.

Obviously yours happen to be doing things differently during a given campaign. It probably explains why they are fighting Imperials.

Serfs generally only see battle if the chapter world is invaded or the chapter's holdings (such as ships)are assaulted.

A good example of this would be the Battle of the Fang. Serfs would be best represented by using IG veteran rules due to their small numbers and access to weaponary.

Serfs go along with their chapter, so it would make sense to have them fight together

Most of the time. I have only read about serfs in combat when a chapter house or chapter fortress on a planet under Astartes control is being attacked. Mainly thats defending not openly being offensive but rather defensive

No need to be so complicated. Marines fight next to IG all the time. Just have them as allied IG.
Ultramarines are only likely to fight with Ultramar forces if Ultramar is invaded.
The other possibility is that your IG allies are actually chapter serfs who were serving as security on a ship that was either boarded or shot down.

Perfectly plausible. Most of the time Chapter worlds don't give tithes to the Imperial Guard, but there's nothing to stop the Chapter Master from raising and arming his own regiments if he can get his hands on the arms and equipment.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Perfectly plausible. Most of the time Chapter worlds don't give tithes to the Imperial Guard, but there's nothing to stop the Chapter Master from raising and arming his own regiments if he can get his hands on the arms and equipment.

Except the Codex Astrates, High Lords of Terra, Inquisitors and other chapters.

Chapter worlds don't give tithes to Terra mostly because they are useless for anything other than producing the hardiest humans in the IoM. Those Chapters that do have rights of ownership over a civilised world (actually able to form regiments) are few and are mostly first or second founding. The two main examples are:

Ultramarines - regiments are shipped off to the IG and are under IG control. (Ultramarines cannot be used as a proper example as they are unique in their standing and political power for a space marine chapter.

Crimson Fists - the Planet had its own PDF for defending the hive cities, this was not under the control of the chapter however.

 BluntmanDC wrote:


Ultramarines - regiments are shipped off to the IG and are under IG control. (Ultramarines cannot be used as a proper example as they are unique in their standing and political power for a space marine chapter.
.

Negative Ghostrider.

Ultramar does not ship regiments off to the Imperial Guard.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 BluntmanDC wrote:


Ultramarines - regiments are shipped off to the IG and are under IG control. (Ultramarines cannot be used as a proper example as they are unique in their standing and political power for a space marine chapter.
.

Negative Ghostrider.

Ultramar does not ship regiments off to the Imperial Guard.

I am surprised you haven't read page 15 of the C:SM which says "they maintain several hundred regiments ready and willing to join the Imperial Guard", those regiments not sent are just PDF forces in Ultramar. As already said the Ultramarines are unique so shouldn't actually be used as an example.

 BluntmanDC wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 BluntmanDC wrote:


Ultramarines - regiments are shipped off to the IG and are under IG control. (Ultramarines cannot be used as a proper example as they are unique in their standing and political power for a space marine chapter.
.

Negative Ghostrider.

Ultramar does not ship regiments off to the Imperial Guard.

I am surprised you haven't read page 15 of the C:SM which says "they maintain several hundred regiments ready and willing to join the Imperial Guard", those regiments not sent are just PDF forces in Ultramar. As already said the Ultramarines are unique so shouldn't actually be used as an example.

So what you're saying that you're surprised that I haven't read the exact page of Codex: Space Marines that proves exactly what I said?

Read up on it some more dude. The Ultramar PDF often fights alongside Imperial Guard forces. They are not Imperial Guard, nor are they tithed as the Space Marine Chapter Worlds are exempt from that requirement.

No i am expecting someone debating fluff to know what they are talking about especially when correcting someone.

As clearly stated from current fluff in a codex the Ultramar PDF is shipped off to the IG, as already stated in multiple codex entries and the index astartes the Ultramarines and Ultramar are unique in standing and although they are exempt from the tithes they are so organised and well managed that they are still able and willing to tithe regiments.

PDF stands for planetary defence force that means they stay on world. Those regiments that fight off world are actually part of the IG and are no longer under direct control of the Ultramarines, due to the fact that they follow the Codex Astrates (although in a situation where both the Ultramarines and IG are fighting together the IG commander will usually give overall leadership to him).

Why are you having a go when it is clearly written in the current codex?

BluntmanDC - You mean Astartes, not Astrates.

I have that page 15 reference open in front of me. I actually think it could be interpreted as "join" as in "become part of" or "join" as in "join in with and fight alongside".

For example, "The Ultramarines joined the Blood Angels in the fight against the Orks." would not mean that the Ultramarines became Blood Angels.

For the record though, the rest of the context around it suggests to me that Bluntman is right and the regiments become IG forces.

 Fifty wrote:
BluntmanDC - You mean Astartes, not Astrates.

I have that page 15 reference open in front of me. I actually think it could be interpreted as "join" as in "become part of" or "join" as in "join in with and fight alongside".

For example, "The Ultramarines joined the Blood Angels in the fight against the Orks." would not mean that the Ultramarines became Blood Angels.

For the record though, the rest of the context around it suggests to me that Bluntman is right and the regiments become IG forces.

All previous fluff enforces the idea that Space Marine chapter worlds are immune to the Imperial tithe, and the Ultramar PDF has been repeatedly described as being deployed in conjunction with the Imperial Guard, but never described as becoming Imperial Guard.

One awkwardly worded, inconclusive sentence does not overwrite two decades of fluff dating back to the 2nd Edition Codex: Ultramarines. I don't have the books with me, but I'll happily source it out later. Space Marine chapters never share with the rest of the Imperium. It's one of the few constants. Ultramar is definitely a unique situation, and the Ultramarines power base certainly seems to skirt the rules at bit when you think about it. Imagine the fleets it would take to mobilize the kinds of forces Ultramar brings to bear. Their Chapter Fleet is probably dwarfed by their own naval forces. But, again, who is going to tell them no? There's a reason why they are "the greatest of all Space Marine chapters".

@ OP - you're fine to do that, and in fact if you think about the manpower needed to operate a chapter's equipment - all those big-ass ships, forges, fortresses - there's probably at least a 30:1 ratio of serfs to space marines.

In Battlefleet Gothic, space marines get a bonus to their boarding actions, not because the whole crew is marines - in fact, on an escort, with a crew of thousands, there might be no marines - but because of how well-trained and equipped the serfs are.

You just need to come up with a nice fluffy reason why your chapter's serfs are in the front line. Perhaps the chapter master's short on marines, but the job needs doing? or it could be that your chapter's fighting a defensive war within it's own territory, protecting various fortresses, supply installations and the like that belong to the chapter.

Go wild

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 Fifty wrote:
BluntmanDC - You mean Astartes, not Astrates.

I have that page 15 reference open in front of me. I actually think it could be interpreted as "join" as in "become part of" or "join" as in "join in with and fight alongside".

For example, "The Ultramarines joined the Blood Angels in the fight against the Orks." would not mean that the Ultramarines became Blood Angels.

For the record though, the rest of the context around it suggests to me that Bluntman is right and the regiments become IG forces.

All previous fluff enforces the idea that Space Marine chapter worlds are immune to the Imperial tithe, and the Ultramar PDF has been repeatedly described as being deployed in conjunction with the Imperial Guard, but never described as becoming Imperial Guard.

One awkwardly worded, inconclusive sentence does not overwrite two decades of fluff dating back to the 2nd Edition Codex: Ultramarines. I don't have the books with me, but I'll happily source it out later. Space Marine chapters never share with the rest of the Imperium. It's one of the few constants. Ultramar is definitely a unique situation, and the Ultramarines power base certainly seems to skirt the rules at bit when you think about it. Imagine the fleets it would take to mobilize the kinds of forces Ultramar brings to bear. Their Chapter Fleet is probably dwarfed by their own naval forces. But, again, who is going to tell them no? There's a reason why they are "the greatest of all Space Marine chapters".

Can you actually read the fluff before you continue beating a dead horse, the codex and the previous codex are quite clear that all chapters are exempt from any tithes. This does not mean they can opt in and choose to tithe. The Ultramarines are clearly said to do this. It does not go against any previous fluff as it has been part of the fluff that this is what Ultramar does for a very long time and that it is clearly said in fluff to be an exception.

Please, please, please actually read the clearly written fluff.

The black Templars in theory tend to do that. Since they set up monastery's on the planets they retribute, you'd imagine many of their recruits coming from military forces. These guardsmen could just be those sorts of forces.
Completely forgot...the serfs could also be used to represent those manning said fortress.

blood lance wrote:The black Templars in theory tend to do that. Since they set up monastery's on the planets they retribute, you'd imagine many of their recruits coming from military forces.

Um ... well, if the military is using ten year old child soldiers, I guess so.

The Space Marines generally prefer barbarians or gangers, though. Apart from higher aggression in the two former groups, proper military education and training might negatively affect the hypno-indoctrination process. A prospective Marine recruit needs to be "malleable"; if his mind is not simple enough the process may fail.
The Index Astartes goes into some detail regarding this.