Egypt to Try 7 Copts, US Pastor Over Prophet Film

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Frazzled**

As a response we should cut ALL aid, and expel their embassies.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57515017/egypt-seeks-arrest-of-anti-islam-filmmaker/?tag=cbsnewsMainColumnArea

Home> International
Egypt to Try 7 Copts, US Pastor Over Prophet Film

More Sharing ServicesShareShare on facebook_likeEmail3 Comments Print
Text Size- / +By SARAH EL DEEB Associated Press
CAIRO September 18, 2012 (AP)

Egypt's general prosecutor issued arrest warrants Tuesday for seven Egyptian Coptic Christians and a Florida-based American pastor and referred them to trial on charges linked to an anti-Islam film that has sparked riots across the Muslim world.

The case is largely symbolic since the seven men and one woman are believed to be outside of Egypt and unlikely to travel to the country to face the charges. Instead, the prosecutor's decision to take legal appears aimed at absorbing at least some of the public anger over the amateur film, which portrays the Prophet Muhammad as a fraud, womanizer and buffoon.

The prosecutor's office said in a statement that the accused, which includes the film's alleged producer, face charges of harming national unity, insulting and publicly attacking Islam and spreading false information. The office said they could face the death penalty, if convicted. No date for the trial has been set.

AP
Egyptian protesters hurl stones at riot... View Full Caption
Egyptian protesters hurl stones at riot police in downtown Cairo, Egypt, early Saturday, Sept. 15, 2012, before police cleared the area after days of protests against a film ridiculing the Prophet Muhammad. Egyptian police on Saturday cleared out protesters who have been clashing with security forces for the past four days near the U.S. Embassy as most cities around the Muslim world reported calm a day after at least six people were killed in a wave of angry protests over an anti-Islam film.(AP Photo) CloseAmong those charged is Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, an Egyptian Copt living in southern California and believed to be behind the film. Florida-based Pastor Terry Jones, who has said he was contacted by the filmmaker to promote the video, as well as Morris Sadek, a conservative Coptic Christian in the U.S. who pushed the video on his website, are also among those charged.

The connection of the other five accused in the case to the film was not immediately clear.

Ultraconservative Salafi lawyer Mamdouh Ismail praised the prosecutor's decision. While recognizing that the eight will be tried in absentia, Ismail said referring them to trial will help curb public anger.

"Now these are legal measures instead of angry reactions, whose consequences are undetermined," he said. "This would also set a deterrent for them and anyone else who may fall into this" offense.

The prosecutor's statement, a copy of which was obtained by The Associated Press, said that after studying the film investigators have determined that it contains scenes offensive to Islam and state institutions. It also says they questioned 10 plaintiffs before issuing the charges.

Nakoula, 55, told the AP in an interview last week outside Los Angeles that he was the manager of the company that produced "Innocence of Muslims." Jones also told AP that he was contacted by Nakoula to promote the movie.

The film, clips of it appeared on YouTube, mocked the Prophet Muhammad and drove small but angry crowds to protest outside the U.S. Embassy in Egypt and an attack on the American Consulate in Libya that killed the U.S. ambassador. Other protests have erupted across the Muslim world over the video, including Afghanistan, Yemen and Indonesia.

**AustonT**

I shall leave this here...That wacky Daily Show.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-september-17-2012/actual-democalypse-2012

**Frazzled**

AustonT wrote:
I shall leave this here...That wacky Daily Show.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-september-17-2012/actual-democalypse-2012

I saw that last night. It was epic.

**ShumaGorath**

Ahh, you get mad when they try a couple of people in absentia, but not when the dictator you're supporting funds a 30 year long campaign of disenfranchisement and terror of that same christian population involving thousands of murders and the destruction of numerous holy sites.

It's that whole "I'm pretending to be mad now despite not actually caring about any of the people or events involved" thing that you do all the time out of some sort of weird isolationist xenophobia that was mysteriously developed the moment a democrat was put in charge of U.S. foreign policy. Cute. I'll put this in the same drawer where your "defense of freedoms now that it's a democrat run government" threads go. It's by the thyme.

**Manchu**

ShumaGorath wrote:
"I'm pretending to be mad now despite not actually caring about any of the people or events involved"

Why would being mad now necessitate caring before? Faulty assumption, Shuma.

**ShumaGorath**

Manchu wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:
"I'm pretending to be mad now despite not actually caring about any of the people or events involved"
Why would being mad now necessitate caring before? Faulty assumption, Shuma.

Because his observation of the region and it's actors isn't new. He is now bothered by an event that has been happening for twice as long as I have been alive (persecution of copts in egypt) because it's politically convenient for his point of view to suddenly develop a complex about defending this particular religious minority group. A point of view that he developed almost four years ago to the day, brings up consistently, and which he consistently contradicts. It would be a faulty assumption if Frazzled was some sort of fresh faced young buff with no prior established political sentiments. He's not though.

**Frazzled**

ShumaGorath wrote:
Ahh, you get mad when they try a couple of people in absentia, but not when the dictator you're supporting funds a 30 year long campaign of disenfranchisement and terror of that same christian population involving thousands of murders and the destruction of numerous holy sites.

It's that whole "I'm pretending to be mad now despite not actually caring about any of the people or events involved" thing that you do all the time out of some sort of weird isolationist xenophobia that was mysteriously developed the moment a democrat was put in charge of U.S. foreign policy. Cute. I'll put this in the same drawer where your "defense of freedoms now that it's a democrat run government" threads go. It's by the thyme.

If I knew what you're actually foaming at the mouth about I'd reply more appropriately, but I'll note: this is about freedom of speech in the US. If Egypt wants to oppress speech in their country then paint me pink and call me Alpharius. But here what we say goes.

**Manchu**

@Shuma: I'm not sure that I understand. You're saying that anger can only be sincere if it is ... disinterested? Sure, I get that you mean that if you're going to be angry about Christians being persecuted in the Middle East, you should be angry no matter who is president of the US at the time. But ... I dunno, I don't remember Frazzled being okay with persecution of Christians in the Middle East four years ago (I admit, I don't follow his opinions as closely as you) and I'm not even sure that is what he is angry about in this case.

**ShumaGorath**

Frazzled wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:
Ahh, you get mad when they try a couple of people in absentia, but not when the dictator you're supporting funds a 30 year long campaign of disenfranchisement and terror of that same christian population involving thousands of murders and the destruction of numerous holy sites.

It's that whole "I'm pretending to be mad now despite not actually caring about any of the people or events involved" thing that you do all the time out of some sort of weird isolationist xenophobia that was mysteriously developed the moment a democrat was put in charge of U.S. foreign policy. Cute. I'll put this in the same drawer where your "defense of freedoms now that it's a democrat run government" threads go. It's by the thyme.

If I knew what you're actually foaming at the mouth about I'd reply more appropriately, but I'll note: this is about freedom of speech in the US. If Egypt wants to oppress speech in their country then paint me pink and call me Alpharius. But here what we say goes.

Than why don't you flip out whenever North Korea, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, Russia, China, or random african or east asian state does the same gak? Is it because you have an anti Obama complex and linking the arab spring to it (and your previously stated U.S. responsibility for it) makes for a nice xenophobic "democratic foreign policy is bad and dangerous" narrative? Yes.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Manchu wrote:
@Shuma: I'm not sure that I understand. You're saying that anger can only be sincere if it is ... disinterested? Sure, I get that you mean that if you're going to be angry about Christians being persecuted in the Middle East, you should be angry no matter who is president of the US at the time. But ... I dunno, I don't remember Frazzled being okay with persecution of Christians in the Middle East four years ago (I admit, I don't follow his opinions as closely as you) and I'm not even sure that is what he is angry about in this case.

I'm just pointing out the consistent inconsistency in his worldviews concerning the persecution of peoples and the defense of free speech. He's actively advocating punishing them for using free speech in order to protect American free speech that isn't under threat. He's using a group of people that he doesn't care about to establish an anti democratic line. He's been doing it since this whole shebang started. It's visible from space.

**deathholydeath**

ShumaGorath wrote:

I'm just pointing out the consistent inconsistency in his worldviews concerning the persecution of peoples and the defense of free speech. He's actively advocating punishing them for using free speech in order to protect American free speech that isn't under threat. He's using a group of people that he doesn't care about to establish an anti democratic line. He's been doing it since this whole shebang started. It's visible from space.

He just stated he only cares about the defense of free speech in the U.S. I'm not sure what the problem is?

**AustonT**

I'm pretty sure he's off his meds

**TheHammer**

Shuma is making perfect sense.

Frazzled does not give two gaks about these people.

Edited by Manchu.

**Frazzled**

ShumaGorath wrote:
Manchu wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:
"I'm pretending to be mad now despite not actually caring about any of the people or events involved"
Why would being mad now necessitate caring before? Faulty assumption, Shuma.

Because his observation of the region and it's actors isn't new. He is now bothered by an event that has been happening for twice as long as I have been alive because it's politically convenient for his point of view to suddenly develop a complex about defending this particular religious minority group. It would be a faulty assumption if Frazzled was some sort of fresh faced young buff with no prior established political sentiments. He's not though.

again...what?

Dude, you're wobbly, you need some sugar. I'd suggest a high protein snack though so the old blood sugar level rises but doesn't spike.

(Frazzled gets out a Chocolate Swiss cake roll)
TBone: "Ooo, oo I'm wobbly, I need a snack quick so I don't pass out, give me some of that Swiss Cake"
Frazzled: No
TBone: I'm wobbly. I'm going to keel over and you'll feel bad and cry again.
Frazzled: No you just had you 4 hour meal. And that won't work. I thought you'd be dead before the week is out. You're still alive and still farting when you're on the sofa in my lap.
ROdney: I'm I'm wobbly too!
Frazzled: No.
Rusty: snack?
TBone: I'm wobbly and on Life's Two Minute Drill. What does it matter?
Frazzled: No
ROdney: No? I'm just going to move a little closer to your hand.
Rusty: are we going out? There's a squirrel out there that has to die.
Frazzled: No.
TBone: I'm wobbly wobbly now. Look one paw is in the air.
(pause)
TBone: ok chewy treat instead?
Frazzled: deal
gets chewy treats for everyone, Rodney steals the other Swiss cake roll when Frazzled gets up.

true story.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Manchu wrote:
@Shuma: I'm not sure that I understand. You're saying that anger can only be sincere if it is ... disinterested? Sure, I get that you mean that if you're going to be angry about Christians being persecuted in the Middle East, you should be angry no matter who is president of the US at the time. But ... I dunno, I don't remember Frazzled being okay with persecution of Christians in the Middle East four years ago (I admit, I don't follow his opinions as closely as you) and I'm not even sure that is what he is angry about in this case.

Egyptian prosecutors issuing arrest warrants for the arrest of the people making that stupid ass movie in the US (they are wisely in hiding, in the US).

**Manchu**

I don't think caring about the people in question is a perquisite for feeling anger about the folks who are hounding them.

**Frazzled**

AustonT wrote:
I'm pretty sure he's off his meds

Not today. I just took 'em.

**Jihadin**

Who's off their meds? Shuma? Frazz? me? you? Manchu?

Time to get the doctor

**Battle Brother Lucifer**

Dakkadakka: the site for wargaming and intense, nonsensical political hate

**Frazzled**

TheHammer wrote:
Shuma is making perfect sense.

Frazzled does not give two gaks about these people.

Edited by Manchu.

I care about free speech in the US. They have issued arrest warrants for those people who are HERE.
This is not complicated.

EDIT: I care about people in other countries as well. I just believe those countries have a right to govern themselves as long as they leave the US and its citizens alone.

**Manchu**

Yes, it seems to me that the Egyptians are not idiots. They know those people are not in Egypt. They know those people are in the US. The warrants are designed to have a specific chilling effect on those people and a general chilling effect on the people of the US regarding making videos criticizing their non-negotiable issues. I don't know anything about the people in question and I sure don't feel much sympathy for the fellow who made the video but I'm still repulsed and angered by the Egyptian way of handling this.

**AustonT**

Frazzled wrote:
AustonT wrote:
I'm pretty sure he's off his meds

Not today. I just took 'em.

Not you dummy

**Frazzled**

Manchu wrote:
Yes, it seems to me that the Egyptians are not idiots. They know those people are not in Egypt. They know those people are in the US. The warrants are designed to have a specific chilling effect on those people and a general chilling effect on the people of the US regarding making videos criticizing their non-negotiable issues. I don't know anything about the people in question and I sure don't feel much sympathy for the fellow who made the video but I'm still repulsed and angered by the Egyptian way of handling this.

Exactly.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

AustonT wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
AustonT wrote:
I'm pretty sure he's off his meds

Not today. I just took 'em.
Not you dummy

Well, if it helps, both TBone and I are well medicated.

**Jihadin**

Actually back up a bit. Egypt trying to get a handle on the riots without busting heads or using rubber bullets/tear gas. The egyptian gov't is new and since they have a wide assortment of muslim views trying to appease all. I do believe though they created a bigger problem. They cannot presecute anyone who is not there. What is there is that 10% of the population in Egypt are Coptic Christian. Its easy to shift the blame of the eight coptic that are not there to those that are they're since. in their mind, share the same view.

**Manchu**

That's a good point: better to let the rioters take it out on people they can't lay hands on than people they can.

One problem, however: why foster a culture where it's acceptable to lay hands on people with whom you disagree?

It's quite barbarous.

**ShumaGorath**

deathholydeath wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:

I'm just pointing out the consistent inconsistency in his worldviews concerning the persecution of peoples and the defense of free speech. He's actively advocating punishing them for using free speech in order to protect American free speech that isn't under threat. He's using a group of people that he doesn't care about to establish an anti democratic line. He's been doing it since this whole shebang started. It's visible from space.

He just stated he only cares about the defense of free speech in the U.S. I'm not sure what the problem is?

Egypt isn't in the United States, this does nothing to U.S. free speech and he's advocating cutting aid to the country as retribution. If all he cared about was the defense of free speech in the U.S. he wouldn't be advocating a specific foreign policy initiative that has everything to do with punishing state sovereignty and the expression of speech.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jihadin wrote:
Actually back up a bit. Egypt trying to get a handle on the riots without busting heads or using rubber bullets/tear gas. The egyptian gov't is new and since they have a wide assortment of muslim views trying to appease all. I do believe though they created a bigger problem. They cannot presecute anyone who is not there. What is there is that 10% of the population in Egypt are Coptic Christian. Its easy to shift the blame of the eight coptic that are not there to those that are they're since. in their mind, share the same view.

They can in fact prosecute people who aren't there. People are prosecuted in absentia often and Egypt has been doing it plenty in prosecuting the Mubarak regimes mid level officials. This is kind of an elegant solution to the problem on their end, though it implies that Egyptian nationals won't resist the introduction of blasphemy laws to their constitution.

**Frazzled**

They want to interfere with US policies and individuals on the domestic US front. A cutoff of funds is an excellent nonviolent reply. This nonsense needs to stop.

**ShumaGorath**

Frazzled wrote:
They want to interfere with US policies and individuals on the domestic US front. A cutoff of funds is an excellent nonviolent reply. This nonsense needs to stop.

Yeah, especially when a significant portion of that aid goes to the Egyptian military which is the primary force (realistically the only force) policing anti american extremism in Egypt (the most populous country in the middle east) and has strong ties with our own forces. I'm sure having your feelings hurt by people on the other side of the planet is terrrrrriiiible for you, but acting in a self destructive fashion because of something like that is childish. We use that aid specifically to interfere with Egyptian policies and individuals in egypt and you're going to hamstring our own efforts to reduce anti american extremism in the mideast because you have a phantom pain in your elbow. Just admit that you only care because it's an election season and big O's seat is up for grabs. You didn't even care about this stuff last year.

**Manchu**

Even if the Egyptian military is the only force in Egypt doing anything about the anti-American sentiment there, they don't seem to be very committed to it. To be blunt, perhaps we're not getting our money's worth. Perhaps we should find new ways to motivate them.

**ShumaGorath**

Manchu wrote:
Even if the Egyptian military is the only force in Egypt doing anything about the anti-American sentiment there, they don't seem to be very committed to it. To be blunt, perhaps we're not getting our money's worth. Perhaps we should find new ways to motivate them.

What is their military not doing? It is the strongest counter the country has to it's current majority Brotherhood political leadership. Do you want them to fire on their own people? Egypt is the country where no one died and a flag got replaced. Would you have them start gunning down Egyptian protesters a year after a massive regime change? Would you prefer that Egypt go back into civil war? We backed Mubarak for thirty years, pulling out now over a harmless protest and fake trial and causing a massive schism in the Egyptian military would only serve the cause of fundamentalist extremism in the Mideast and would paint an even large target on us (one that honestly, we would deserve). What's in Americas best interest is to treat these protests without getting it's rankles up because some people say mean things. Our foreign policy is already muddled enough with our own regime changes without it turning into a highschool drama club.

**Frazzled**

ShumaGorath wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
They want to interfere with US policies and individuals on the domestic US front. A cutoff of funds is an excellent nonviolent reply. This nonsense needs to stop.

Yeah, especially when a significant portion of that aid goes to the Egyptian military which is the primary force (realistically the only force) policing anti american extremism in Egypt (the most populous country in the middle east) and has strong ties with our own forces. I'm sure having your feelings hurt by people on the other side of the planet is terrrrrriiiible for you, but acting in a self destructive fashion because of something like that is childish. We use that aid specifically to interfere with Egyptian policies and individuals in egypt and you're going to hamstring our own efforts to reduce anti american extremism in the mideast because you have a phantom pain in your elbow.

Funny, when another country issues arrest warrants for US citizens using free speech in my country to make a stupid trailer, I tend to get a little riled about it.

Just admit that you only care because it's an election season and big O's seat is up for grabs. You didn't even care about this stuff last year.

Thats your issue, not mine. I didn't bring Obama into it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ShumaGorath wrote:
Manchu wrote:
Even if the Egyptian military is the only force in Egypt doing anything about the anti-American sentiment there, they don't seem to be very committed to it. To be blunt, perhaps we're not getting our money's worth. Perhaps we should find new ways to motivate them.

What is their military not doing? It is the strongest counter the country has to it's current majority Brotherhood political leadership. Do you want them to fire on their own people? Egypt is the country where no one died and a flag got replaced. Would you have them start gunning down Egyptian protesters a year after a massive regime change? Would you prefer that Egypt go back into civil war? We backed Mubarak for thirty years, pulling out now over a harmless protest and fake trial and causing a massive schism in the Egyptian military would only serve the cause of fundamentalist extremism in the Mideast and would paint an even large target on us (one that honestly, we would deserve). What's in Americas best interest is to treat these protests without getting it's rankles up because some people say mean things. Our foreign policy is already muddled enough with our own regime changes without it turning into a highschool drama club.

They don't appear to be doing anything.
I don't care about the protests. Arrest warrants for American citizens in America is a serious situation, and should be treated like it.

**Manchu**

It is foolish to equate the issuance of warrants by the Egyptian government against people seeking asylum in the United States in the wake of murder of US citizens in similarly-situated countries as "some people saying mean things."

If the purpose of sending aid to Egypt is to stem anti-American sentiment there, then I think recent events should make every reasonable person question whether that purpose is being served.

What I see is not a bright new day for Egypt but the same old rogue nation antics of whipping up violence every once in a while to keep the billions flowing in. This is how you train a new North Korea.