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Yesterday, veteran's evening at GW. We played 3000 pts: Eldar (2000) + Orks (1000 ) vs. BA (2000+1000).
I played Eldar and my enhanced Seer Council

Fortuneseer w/ roward
10 Warlocks w/ enhance, embolden
Fuegan

did really well and was the best unit in the game.

The unit managed to get unhindered across the board. With Fuegan in front, shooting attacks were handled against him.
Then they charged into a melee with Warpspiders and Assault Marines. More Assault Marines and a small DC piled in,
but at the end (of round 5) none of the Seers got killed, Fuegan got a wound.

So if you want to tie up a larger infantry block of the enemy, this unit or a similar one is absolutely amazing.

Thoughts? Experiences?

Why in the word would you put fuegan in front? You would slow the whole pack down horrifically. At least throw Baharroth out there with a poweraxe so you still get a 12" move.

Also keep in mind that while the unit is cool, it's also damn near 800pts and has only one model that bypasses a 2+ save.

I'm thinking he's talking about a seer council on foot.

Oh gotcha, I never take that because it's slow as hell and a fortuned lock only has a 75% save rate. All someone has to do it flank or barrage the uniy and you are in trouble.

 BlueDagger wrote:
Why in the word would you put fuegan in front? You would slow the whole pack down horrifically. At least throw Baharroth out there with a poweraxe so you still get a 12" move.

Also keep in mind that while the unit is cool, it's also damn near 800pts and has only one model that bypasses a 2+ save.

I'm assuming that the unit was on foot rather than a JetCouncil.

The Council seems like a solid unit in 6th. The JetCouncil version is still probably more solid, but the FootCouncil is probably more viable than it was in 5th largely due to the big boost the Phoenix Lords got (and 4++ saves are now more valuable with cover being rarer). You can lead with the 2+ save EW guy and then bounce wounds off on to the Warlocks if you don't want to take the hit. You can also throw Eldrad in there for another AP2 weapon without much downside. I was considering running one (although probably with Karandras rather than Fuegan) but the nerf to Destructors in the FAQ made me change my mind (it let them avoid being swarmed, which is the main way they tend to drop).

Powerguy wrote:

 BlueDagger wrote:
Why in the word would you put fuegan in front? You would slow the whole pack down horrifically. At least throw Baharroth out there with a poweraxe so you still get a 12" move.

Also keep in mind that while the unit is cool, it's also damn near 800pts and has only one model that bypasses a 2+ save.

I'm assuming that the unit was on foot rather than a JetCouncil.

The Council seems like a solid unit in 6th. The JetCouncil version is still probably more solid, but the FootCouncil is probably more viable than it was in 5th largely due to the big boost the Phoenix Lords got (and 4++ saves are now more valuable with cover being rarer). You can lead with the 2+ save EW guy and then bounce wounds off on to the Warlocks if you don't want to take the hit. You can also throw Eldrad in there for another AP2 weapon without much downside. I was considering running one (although probably with Karandras rather than Fuegan) but the nerf to Destructors in the FAQ made me change my mind (it let them avoid being swarmed, which is the main way they tend to drop).

Fuegan is better than Karandras because he attacks at initiative 7 and can decide to smash at S10 if needed. You could even argue that he makes a hammer of wrath attack because he attacks like a monstrous creature I believe. (Not sure what the wording changed to in the FAQ). Plus, he has the firepike, tankhunter and crack shot, which is really good for smoking vehicles in cover. Maugan Ra can work in this capacity as well, with his Maugetar, but he's only AP3 and doesn't have FNP like Fuegan.

You can make this unit extra disgusting by throwing in an archon with a shadowfield for more save abuse.

Karandras gives them infiltrate which helps them immensely in getting into CC. Otherwise I'd agree fuegan is the best choice.

Well, I meant a Council on foot. Sorry for this.
This unit is 100 (Fortune Seer) + 275 (10 Warlocks) + 205 (F) = 580 pts, which can be a third or a fourth of the army.
Next time, I'll try DE allies and an Archon which is (much) cheaper than Fuegan.

Yeah an Archon will give you better mileage in the long run. The main issue is it just becomes the token deathstar unit... without the death part to a hand full of stuff. It's very slow at a 6"+D6" move.

 BlueDagger wrote:
Yeah an Archon will give you better mileage in the long run. The main issue is it just becomes the token deathstar unit... without the death part to a hand full of stuff. It's very slow at a 6"+D6" move.

Its rather slow, but able to reroll the ''D6'' if necessary. It appears that it has a fear factor.
To get some mileage out of it, it should be positions in the centre and walk through the centre. The enemy cannot ignore it and some enemies will have a hard time to deal with it.

Foot council?
4+ invul with re-roll doesn't hold up as well as 2+ armor.

For that cost, I'd be more worried about a full 10 squad of terminators.
Flak kills warlocks, and you can't keep the phoenix lord closest vs everything.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:
Foot council?
4+ invul with re-roll doesn't hold up as well as 2+ armor.

For that cost, I'd be more worried about a full 10 squad of terminators.
Flak kills warlocks, and you can't keep the phoenix lord closest vs everything.

-Matt

Well, a foot Council with Fuegan in front is a quite potent unit. I tried it in a 2vs2 game (2200 Eldar + 1000 Orks vs. 3200 BA) and it worked very well, it was the best unit in the game.
Its right that indirect fire can hit Warlocks directly. But this 4+ inv. with reroll helps a lot.

Fortuned foot seers are as durale as MEQ vs bolter ects and even less so vs flashlights. Wih only one extra model taking hits getting to the seers should be far from impossible. Id still rather take Harlies if Im walking them even with the nerf to VoT

Well, I'm too lazy to do the math, but a foot Council with Fuegan in front is certainly more durable than a Tactical squad vs. bolters. Not sure about flashlight.
In said game, Fuegan took out a Libby in cc by a challenge. Then the psychic hood was gone and the Council able to fortune their lifes.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I'm too lazy to do the math, but a foot Council with Fuegan in front is certainly more durable than a Tactical squad vs. bolters. Not sure about flashlight.
In said game, Fuegan took out a Libby in cc by a challenge. Then the psychic hood was gone and the Council able to fortune their lifes.

Deny the witch only works on psychic powers that targets enemy units, so the hood has no effect what so ever on the Farseers ability to cast fortune...

I said that the council is just as durable when the shots arent allocated to Fueagan.
Str 4 shots:
vs Foot council
2/3 will wound, 1/4 of the wounds will not be saved = 1/6 hits will cause an unsaved wound

vs MEQ:
1/2 will wound, 1/3 wounds will not be saved = 1/6 hits will cause an unsaved wound

Str3 shots:
vs Foot council
1/2 will wound, 1/4 wounds will not be saved = 1/8 hits will cause an unsaved wound

vs MEQ
1/3 will wound 1/3 wounds will not be saved = 1/9 hits will cause an unsaved wound

Tedurur, many thanks for pointing out. I think the topic running a cc unit with a durable HQ in front is still hot.

It is, but I prefer the Jetlocks to having a walking council even if its more expensive. Throw in the Baron for a rerollable 2++ save and hit n run. The extra durability and mobility is worth the extra cost.