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So, 2 fast, fairly hard hitting CC units with minor shooting abilities.
Wanted to mix things up a bit with my nids so ive decided im going to start running one of these, but i wanted some opinions on them.

Shrikes have no issues with synapse, can take sword+whip, but are lower A and I and also start to get very points heavy when you gear them up.
Ravs have no synapse, but can throw out a ton of attacks, but the only way to ignore armour is via rending, which you get at the cost of re-rolling all misses.

Stats wise, both are similar and both have pretty much the same role in an army.
Im just not too sure as ravs seem to be edging it thanks to being cheaper, and more effective.

All you need for ravs is devourers, then a unit of 9 throws out 27 shots before rushing in with a bucket of attacks.

They are very diffrent units. If you are looking for a horde killer the raveners with devs. If your looking for an MEQ or TEQ killer the shrikes are better.

Also don't forget the shrikes get HoW now too. I prefer TS and dual sword shrikes, but I needed a unit to kill TEQ.

Raveners are the better unit, initiative 5 is quite important to hit marines first.

Gloom - Thats pretty true actually.
However, you can gear up both types to face both meq and teq equally. (Twin talons or boneswords on shrikes, twin talons or claws on ravs)


Scimitar - Ill give you that one.
That was a leaning point for me.
Granted, glands can fix this through FC, but its only for 1 turn and thats only if you make the assault.
Ravs seem to be better for drawn out combats against larger units.


More annoyed though that they didnt think to give a prime the option of wings or a snake body to join these 2 units.

 Jackal wrote:
Gloom - Thats pretty true actually.
However, you can gear up both types to face both meq and teq equally. (Twin talons or boneswords on shrikes, twin talons or claws on ravs)

That is not true. There is a vast diffrence between ignores armor and rends on a 6. Shrikes will get you more kills against TEQ and thier value only goes up from there on multiwound models.
If you are running twin talons on Shirkes then you are paying way to many points. The question is if you run them dual swords or Lash/sword.
Raveners are better vs hordes becasue they can shoot and not reduce thier power in CC (you can still take rending/dual scytal AND a gun)

Scimitar - Ill give you that one.
That was a leaning point for me.
Granted, glands can fix this through FC, but its only for 1 turn and thats only if you make the assault.
Ravs seem to be better for drawn out combats against larger units.

No more +1 to Init from FC anymore. Raveners are much better in drawn out combats though. ITs why I preffer them if I am facing hordes.

And Raveners can Rage now if out of synapse. So that is good too.
HoW on the Shrikes does mean that you can kill a few models before they get to hit you.

I need to be reading the 6th book more, only started flicking through it a few days ago -_-
Thanks again gloom.
I understand that rending is nowhere near the same as AP3 (boneswords are AP3 right?)
But its still something i guess

But you are right.
Ravs are more for horde killing.

Thinking i may have to go with ravs, wanted to in the 1st place, but kept thinking i had missed something crucial about shrikes.
I just feel they are a bit points heavy when you gear them up to be of use.

Last question though.
As a basic layout, what would you prefer?
2x6 ravs or 1x9?
Want to run them in a high ish number as they seem to work much like slaanesh daemons.
But unsure is 6 is too little.
3rd FA is reserved though as i allways take my garg screen.

 Jackal wrote:
I need to be reading the 6th book more, only started flicking through it a few days ago -_-
Thanks again gloom.
I understand that rending is nowhere near the same as AP3 (boneswords are AP3 right?)
But its still something i guess

But you are right.
Ravs are more for horde killing.

Thinking i may have to go with ravs, wanted to in the 1st place, but kept thinking i had missed something crucial about shrikes.
I just feel they are a bit points heavy when you gear them up to be of use.

Last question though.
As a basic layout, what would you prefer?
2x6 ravs or 1x9?
Want to run them in a high ish number as they seem to work much like slaanesh daemons.
But unsure is 6 is too little.
3rd FA is reserved though as i allways take my garg screen.

Bone Swords are AP-, but they ignore armor. Rending is better vs. AV.

When I run Raveners I take them with Devourers and rending claws (so I can take out mech better) and I run them in squads of 5 (Same size as my shrikes actully). Once you go above 5 you start to have to many eggs in one basket and they become a MASSIVE fire magnet for every S8 or better weapon. The changes in cover rules also make it harder to get cover saves with large broods. Also multi-assaulting has been nerfed, if you do it you lose the +1 attack from charging. Combine this with overwatch and the random charge length and taking one big brood is just a bit to risky in my opinion.

Thanks once again gloom
Ignores armour pretty much accounts to AP2 right?

Glad to see rending hasnt been cut about too much.

Since i havent read much, ive mainly been reading through core rules.
Yet to get into the finer details like special rules :(

Thanks
Was looking at both the dev and the spitter, but decided that its not really worth paying 5 more for an AP.
I see your point though, heavy ish on points, large foot print and poses a high risk, so it will take alot of fire.
But im hoping a gargoyle shield (usually 20-30 gargs) will help with that one.
Also, i do run a flyrant and trygon prime in every list, so there are a few big threats that im hoping will soak missiles and keep them away from the ravs.

Shrikes are much slower and cause vastly more wounds to good save models. Rending is never going to come close to a Bonesword.

But Raveners, with their increased speed and gun option that isn't tremendously outclassed by a melee option, have a much larger threat range.

 Jackal wrote:
Thanks once again gloom
Ignores armour pretty much accounts to AP2 right?

Was looking at both the dev and the spitter, but decided that its not really worth paying 5 more for an AP.
I see your point though, heavy ish on points, large foot print and poses a high risk, so it will take alot of fire.
But im hoping a gargoyle shield (usually 20-30 gargs) will help with that one.
Also, i do run a flyrant and trygon prime in every list, so there are a few big threats that im hoping will soak missiles and keep them away from the ravs.

Basically the bone swords are like AP2, but they do not get the bonus to the vehicle damage chart.

Dethspitters are not a bad choice for a shooty unit, but as you will probably only be shooting once or twice they are not really worth it in my opinion.

IF you are running your ravs behind gargs you should have some decent cover. Just keep in mind cover like that is 5+ now. Also let the gars charge first to suck up overwatch fire.

Flyrant will not suck up S8 shots unit it is grounded. Expect it to soak up a ton of light fire in swoop mode until it is grounded. Then thy will light it up with high strength weapons. Expect the Prime to get charged a lot by cheap tarpit units with 2 small charaters now to tarpit it. They must accept challanges and it can tie them up for a few rounds. Especally if they have a decent Invuln or FNP becasue they will get rerolls from the rest of the squad.

I allways run a screen of gargs.
Infact, i have done since the previous dex.
Allways had a use for them now, and also, they gain hammer, so they are actually pretty good lol.

My other option is to run swarmy with some tyrant guard.
They should soak more fire, but they are nowhere near as quick and set back a bit heavier on points.

The new challenge thing is annoying.
I see warding staves being my new worsed nightmare.
I think it will be a case of making use of the prime to hammer the most expensive unit/vehicle on the table, or to pin a unit in place.

Also, reading the ord barrage rules im now strangely considering the idea of biovores lol.
As sad as it sounds, sitting them behind an aegis is viable.

Also, since i can now run a twin FO chart, venomthropes are an option.
Granted they slow me a bit, but its mobile cover to work with the screen of gargs.

 Jackal wrote:

My other option is to run swarmy with some tyrant guard.
They should soak more fire, but they are nowhere near as quick and set back a bit heavier on points.

The new challenge thing is annoying.
I see warding staves being my new worsed nightmare.
I think it will be a case of making use of the prime to hammer the most expensive unit/vehicle on the table, or to pin a unit in place.

Also, reading the ord barrage rules im now strangely considering the idea of biovores lol.
As sad as it sounds, sitting them behind an aegis is viable.

If you run Swarmy you need to have at least one guard and you have to stick a Prime in with him. Trust me on this. With the addition of challenges either the swarmlord will get stuck fighting one wound wonders (like Sargent) or he will die a horrible death (MSS, Loki, force staves, implant attacks). The Prime can take the challenges and leave the swarmlord free to do some damage.

Also I find that TK is the best disciple for him to roll on. A lot of people swear by Biomancy, but take a real good look at the powers. Iron Arm is the only really great power. If you want Endurance just have a few other psykers roll on Biomancy and give it to him (or just keep Catalyst on a Tervigon). Two powers come stock with a Swarmlord (Enfeeble and Life Leech), Hemorrhage and (I'm going to get flamed for this) Warp Speed suck.

TK has 3 great powers (OM, TK Dome, Gate). Two meh powers (Crush and Shockwave). Void pretty much sucks as it is dangerous to use, a PSA and it takes 2 Warp Charge.

Biovores are pretty good now. They give us some cheap anti-horde. They can also snipe special weapons and charters now, so that is a bonus.

Shrikes need the large gargoyle screen to work - they give synapse to the gargoyles and gargoyles give them cover. That 5+ armour save is a major issue as is AG not pushing their initiative to 5 - the cover from intervening units is also now only 5+. Admit I've not run them since 5th ...

Raveners are still very viable in my book. Broods of 5, rending claws and devourer if you've the points. Run them in behind an MC for screening as you don't want to expose T4, 5+ armour save to any shooting. They can do a job in combat against vehicles, hordes and elites. The base I5 means they generally go first against all but seriously hyped up HQs and with rending and up to 25 hits on the charge they can dent terminators as well.