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For Hordes, it's pretty common for a warbeast to solo a colossal with most factions having at least one who can do it with minimal buffs. What about on the Warmachine side? I see the focus limitation being pretty heavy on it. I put a couple casters in there as well but I'm not liking that since you don't want to do a piece exchange with your caster.

My list so far:

Cygnar:
pNemo & Rowdy
Darth Stryker on a good Overload roll

Khador:
eSorcha and Behemoth/ Bonded Beast/ Bonded Spriggan on the feat turn
pButcher

Menoth:
eFeora + bonded Reckoner + Choir maybe?
Resnik with EoD maybe?

Cryx:
pDenny and DJ/Nightmare/Seether/ A strong breeze on the feat turn

Retribution:
Can't think of anything

I haven't played Warmachine against a colossal, but my Mulg took down a Stormwall and a Conquest on his own, the only buffs he got were Wild Agression and Stone Scribe Elder's +1 STR against the Stormwall, and the +3 movement and Pathfinder from the Troll Axer against the Conquest (it was a battlegroup only game).

Conquest took 2 turns to take down, and Stormwall went down like cheap aluminum...

Reznik can't actually get the job done hiself unless there's an upkeep of some sort on it and even then it's dice I think. But a Choired, Ignited heavy like an Avatar or Scourge of Heresy can do it actually.

Mage Hunter Strike Force under Ossyan's feat actually rip even the toughest colossal to shreds actually.

And stuff.

I didn't put the Avatar in there because of the variable focus he gets. On average he gets 3 and it's not going to be to his side of average to drop it.

Mercs
Macbaine sends a heavy in with focus then Jackhammers with it.

Gorten Strength of Granites a jack and maybe softens things up
with a Molten Metal . The Driller becomes P+S 20 and 21! Tune
that 'jack up with Thor and you have boosted attack and melee
attacks.

EMagnus hits one with Calamity then Ragman runs up to debuff
ARM further.

Forgeguard are weaponmasters and you can Prime then to make
the unit P+S 13.

And how's this for one shotting a colossal: Blind grenade via Gorman.

eHaley and bonded Stormclad.

I had a min unit (w/ UA) of charging bane thralls take out the Mnt King in one turn.

I would be pretty confident in a max unit of mechthralls taking one out especially with UA and an armor debuf on the colossal.

Any other colossal!, especially a bonded one.

Really colossals are tough, but far from unkillable. Anything that can take out regular heavies will do well against colossals as well. In some ways they are more vulnerable than a heavy jack because a single debuff goes farther against them vs two heavies. And their base is so big that a full unit of something like mechthralls can all get into melee range. Against heavies it can be much tougher to get the entire unit engaged with clogged up charge lanes and better ability to hide behind terrain.

Ret can do it with a unit (or two) of Stormfalls under Ossy's feat and using Brutal shot (so rolling POW 12 +4D6 damage with each shot). Apparently a guy did it in a tournament to a Cygnar army to their undamaged Colossal, only to crack a joke about "Well they are called Stormfall archers..."

Rets can do it with hypnos over a turn (or 3)

Khador: Karchev
Is able to Solo most Colossals with minimum effort. Also he can get in there and actually do it himself if he really wants to. Unearthly Rage gives you boosted melee attack and damage rolls for your entire battlegroup. This usually presents you with quite a few options

Juggarnaut: PS 19 axe
Spriggan: PS 18 spear, reach
Behemoth: armor piercing PS 12?
Karchev: PS 19 axe, reach

Khador also has the option for indirect buffs: Ragman, Ayana - Holt.

Often its best to tow + send Karchev in himself, and just simply beat it to death. With an option for 5 PS19 + 1 PS 15, Colossals go down. Then use the rest of your jacks to run for free on the feat turn, to engage whatever else might threaten him.

Downside... if you flub some rolls, its your caster 1:1 with a Colosall...tends not to end well

Remember folks. It's not about what can get the job done, it's about what can get the job done reliably. Unless your damage rolls can all come up 6 or (if boosting) 9 and you still kill it don't plan your turn around that kill. Similarly remember event though they're broad side of the barn you're making multiple attacks against them. Even if the only way you can miss a colossal is on snake eyes, if you're making 5 to 6 attacks to try and kill it there is ~15% chance you're going to miss at least one of them. Planning on the 1 Vector, 1 Turn scenario is cute but can lead to sloppy play.

You've got to plan for the below-the-curve turns because one of three things happens if you're banking on average rolls:

1) Your dice are average: Plan works!
2) Your dice are hot: Plans Works! (Overkill is kind of cute. Maybe you have a wasted focus sitting on your kill vector?)
3) Your dice are cold: Uh-oh!

EDIT: Math.

Took my Deathjack two turns and seven Focus to punch a Kraken to death this past weekend. Granted he missed three of his attacks needing 3s to hit...

For reference i've had a mangler rip through half a kraken in a turn, didn't get to finish it as Scaverous stick his arse out in the open and promptly got it shoot off but i'd suggest a large number of merc jacks could do it with jackhammer as stated above.

For an interesting thought I'd suggest Kara Sloan could pull it off if you had a week & some cover. (had to take on karchev, a demolisher & beserker with no support so the collosal would just take a touch longer)

Ravanar wrote:
For reference i've had a mangler rip through half a kraken in a turn, didn't get to finish it as Scaverous stick his arse out in the open and promptly got it shoot off but i'd suggest a large number of merc jacks could do it with jackhammer as stated above.

For an interesting thought I'd suggest Kara Sloan could pull it off if you had a week & some cover. (had to take on karchev, a demolisher & beserker with no support so the collosal would just take a touch longer)

My buddy's Kara Sloan list killed a Conquest on her feat turn

The big thing that is being exposed more and more for Colassals is that at the end, they are a model with 2 warjack grids. Many players have a method of killing more than 1 warjack in a turn, so their lists should be able to handle killing 1 Colassal a turn.

Yes Colassals are really really nasty. But unless they are supported, at the end of the day, what are they? A model with 2 grids and some cool abilities. They will wreck opponents face if given opportunity, however at the end of the day, if the opponent gets first jump on them, they will likely go down.

njpc wrote:
The big thing that is being exposed more and more for Colassals is that at the end, they are a model with 2 warjack grids. .

Take your anti-DOOOM!!1!ness and begone, sensible opinions about collossals are wanted neither on dakka or on privateer press forums!



soon as i actually saw the stormwalls stats i thought wow it makes one pod a turn and all you have to do is shoot at them with a handcannon. Disrupted for one turn or lose a few trooper models, I dunno after getting the colossals book in my hands the stormwall did't seem so good and the khadoran one didn''t seem so bad. The judicator however made me think, wow, I really, really must start menites, that thing is nuts.

I'm guessing we are on the same page

Don't get me wrong, they are great for changing the meta game or "i take my uber infantry and smash thee!" Colosals are fantastic vs Doom Reaver Spam, Menoth elite WM infantry spam, winterguard spam, anything infantry hordes.

However push come to shove... they die horrible awe inspiring deaths to balanced lists with solid Heavy Beast / jack support

pGaspy using scything touch and parasite + most cryx jacks would end poorly for the collossal.

There are many ways to do this.

Its just, what do you Consider Solo'ing ?

eEyriss + A&H + Ragman + Damiano Feat + Steelhead Halbs in melee Then Heavy Cavalry charge and kill it ?


Or 1 Model With limited Support ?

1 Model with No support ?

It also greaty depends on what biggen your killing, Hordes Gargs die faster so far.

Warmachine gets more buffs..

Arcane Shield Stormwall is different from killing a Base stormwall

Stormwall with Arcane Shield on Pstryker feat turn for +8 ARM ?

Gallion with +5 Arm ?

 Spyder68 wrote:
There are many ways to do this.

Its just, what do you Consider Solo'ing ?

eEyriss + A&H + Ragman + Damiano Feat + Steelhead Halbs in melee Then Heavy Cavalry charge and kill it ?


Or 1 Model With limited Support ?

1 Model with No support ?

It also greaty depends on what biggen your killing, Hordes Gargs die faster so far.

Warmachine gets more buffs..

Arcane Shield Stormwall is different from killing a Base stormwall

Stormwall with Arcane Shield on Pstryker feat turn for +8 ARM ?

Gallion with +5 Arm ?

The list of units that can down a supported collossal in one turn is significantly smaller than the list that can down an unsupported one. The difference between killing a stormwall with 19 armor in 5 attacks and 22 armor is 15 boxes of damage. That's the difference between a raged mulg or a behemoth with superiority soloing a stormwall or not. There are very few things in the game that can solo a 24 armor galleon, less that will survive to reach that stage.

Stormclad run by pNemo with Disruption Field in place, and fully overcharged. Sword is doing dice +2 against anything but a conquest. Assuming I simply walked up to hit it, that is 6 attacks, probably all hitting, dealing an average of 9 damage each. 54 Damage. Fist hits, pushes it over to 58 points of damage. Won't kill and undamaged colossal in one round, but it will cripple it, as well as fry any support which is standing to close thanks to the swords electro-leap. That's completely unsupported other than the caster.

Give me a Stormwall, and I can solo it.

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
Stormclad run by pNemo with Disruption Field in place, and fully overcharged. Sword is doing dice +2 against anything but a conquest. Assuming I simply walked up to hit it, that is 6 attacks, probably all hitting, dealing an average of 9 damage each. 54 Damage. Fist hits, pushes it over to 58 points of damage. Won't kill and undamaged colossal in one round, but it will cripple it, as well as fry any support which is standing to close thanks to the swords electro-leap. That's completely unsupported other than the caster.

Give me a Stormwall, and I can solo it.

If the stormwall has arcane shield (which it will) you just did 16 less boxes worth of damage, likely not downing many of it's systems. You will lose the stormclad on the return. The colossal will never not be supported, that's an unrealistic assumption if we assume a competent player.

Soloing is exactly that. What combo can send the jack with a reasonable chance of killing the colossal on it's own without additional help. Buffs are fine.

And Shuma is exactly right. I'm looking for ideas to see what 'jacks reasonably can do it to set up a favorable piece exchange. Trading a 'jack for a Colossal is pretty much a win across the board for you.

12thRonin wrote:
Soloing is exactly that. What combo can send the jack with a reasonable chance of killing the colossal on it's own without additional help. Buffs are fine.

And Shuma is exactly right. I'm looking for ideas to see what 'jacks reasonably can do it to set up a favorable piece exchange. Trading a 'jack for a Colossal is pretty much a win across the board for you.

Hordes has several methods of downing a buffed colossal in one turn, a raged mulg with E-Doomshaper can do it, A Bronzeback titan can do it with paingiver and 'lock support, a correctly buffed carnivien can pull it off, A warhog on Carvers feat turn can do it, etc. It's a bit harder on the warmachine side since 'jack damage potential isn't as high as beast due to focus/fury mechanics. The avatar can pull it off, Cryx can down any of them with enough bane thralls or the deathjack, Khador can bring one down with the right feats and battle lust, Cygnar will have problems since a buffed stormclad won't quite be enough in most cases. Ret is screwed, mercs kinda need either dwarves or their own collossal.

 Spyder68 wrote:
It also greaty depends on what biggen your killing, Hordes Gargs die faster so far.

My Mountain King would like to have a word with you... He has yet to die since setting him on the table 2 weekends ago, and he's been in a handful of games (anecdotal I know, but whelps followed by krielstone buffs make for an intimidating model... and I don't even use Earthborn + Janissa, since I don't have them lol).


And like many have said, Mulg can easily solo a colossal (and mine has done it twice...).

Turn 2 eDoomshaper feated and Mulg charged like 5 inches across the board and proceeded to beat down the Stormwall. It was a waste of the feat turn since the only one that charged was Mulg lol, but I just wanted to kill as many colossals as possible.

Then on Turn 2 against a Khador player, Mulg got the animus from the Axer and the feat from eDoomshaper and launched himself across the board, crippled the left side of the Conquest and a good chunk of the right and survived the following turn with 1 left in body and 2 left in spirit. Then he proceeded to wail on the conquest again.

 ShumaGorath wrote:

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
Stormclad run by pNemo with Disruption Field in place, and fully overcharged. Sword is doing dice +2 against anything but a conquest. Assuming I simply walked up to hit it, that is 6 attacks, probably all hitting, dealing an average of 9 damage each. 54 Damage. Fist hits, pushes it over to 58 points of damage. Won't kill and undamaged colossal in one round, but it will cripple it, as well as fry any support which is standing to close thanks to the swords electro-leap. That's completely unsupported other than the caster.

Give me a Stormwall, and I can solo it.

If the stormwall has arcane shield (which it will) you just did 16 less boxes worth of damage, likely not downing many of it's systems. You will lose the stormclad on the return. The colossal will never not be supported, that's an unrealistic assumption if we assume a competent player.

Oh I definitely agree. It's just the odds of my sending in the stormclad unsupported are about the same as my opponent not slapping an armour buff on the colossal. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but most factions can't spam arm buffs anywhere near what Cygnar can do with arcane shield.

It's okay.

PDoomshaper would like to have a word with the Stormwall.

If that don't work, then the stormwall will have a word with PDoomshaper.

(If you're wondering, Doomshaper purifies Arcane Shield)

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

 ShumaGorath wrote:

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
Stormclad run by pNemo with Disruption Field in place, and fully overcharged. Sword is doing dice +2 against anything but a conquest. Assuming I simply walked up to hit it, that is 6 attacks, probably all hitting, dealing an average of 9 damage each. 54 Damage. Fist hits, pushes it over to 58 points of damage. Won't kill and undamaged colossal in one round, but it will cripple it, as well as fry any support which is standing to close thanks to the swords electro-leap. That's completely unsupported other than the caster.

Give me a Stormwall, and I can solo it.

If the stormwall has arcane shield (which it will) you just did 16 less boxes worth of damage, likely not downing many of it's systems. You will lose the stormclad on the return. The colossal will never not be supported, that's an unrealistic assumption if we assume a competent player.

Oh I definitely agree. It's just the odds of my sending in the stormclad unsupported are about the same as my opponent not slapping an armour buff on the colossal. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but most factions can't spam arm buffs anywhere near what Cygnar can do with arcane shield.

Most can get close, several hordes factions (and mercs) can do it better via spiny growth. Nothing's as universal as buying Jr and slapping AS on one though (it's a shame minions aren't getting one, a permanent +4 to armor and spiny growth via common in faction buffs would be lovely).

 ShumaGorath wrote:

12thRonin wrote:
Soloing is exactly that. What combo can send the jack with a reasonable chance of killing the colossal on it's own without additional help. Buffs are fine.

And Shuma is exactly right. I'm looking for ideas to see what 'jacks reasonably can do it to set up a favorable piece exchange. Trading a 'jack for a Colossal is pretty much a win across the board for you.

Hordes has several methods of downing a buffed colossal in one turn, a raged mulg with E-Doomshaper can do it, A Bronzeback titan can do it with paingiver and 'lock support, a correctly buffed carnivien can pull it off, A warhog on Carvers feat turn can do it, etc. It's a bit harder on the warmachine side since 'jack damage potential isn't as high as beast due to focus/fury mechanics. The avatar can pull it off, Cryx can down any of them with enough bane thralls or the deathjack, Khador can bring one down with the right feats and battle lust, Cygnar will have problems since a buffed stormclad won't quite be enough in most cases. Ret is screwed, mercs kinda need either dwarves or their own collossal.

All of this I said at the top of the thread, hence the discussion about the Warmachine side.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Malfred: The Stormwall can try to talk while pDoomie is force choking it after stripping Arc Shield / Failsafe.