Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey,
I'm looking to play with nurgle daemons during the new chaos marine release, since daemons are the only true chaos. I made an army which I hope is both fluffy and moderately effective. I've had two games with it so far, both against word bearers and both were victories

Below is the list with vague tactics, let me know what you think- any comments are welcomed.

HQ
Epidemius= 110
I decided on having Epidemius as he can make my core of troops more effective as the battle goes on and as the daemon princes (sadly, but inevitably) die.
Herald of Nurgle: palaquin, breath of chaos= 95
Herald of Nurgle: palaquin, breath of chaos= 95
Herald of Nurgle: palaquin, breath of chaos= 95
going to be made to looking like flying eyes from Final Fantasy X, these heralds are either attached to a unit of plaguebearers and come down mid-game, or are sent down independently to gang up and vomit on a squad in the first turn. I found that they are suprisingly tough with toughness 5, an invuln and FNP

Troops
7 Plaguebearers= 105
7 Plaguebearers= 105
7 Plaguebearers= 105
7 Plaguebearers= 105
My core of troops, although I've planned for them to be in the second wave, the Gods have disagreed with my decision in both games, fortunately the load of them together are incredibly tough and able to take most things my opponent through at them.
7 Nurglings= 81
a group of loving nurglings for Epidemius to accompany onto the battlefield, since my opponent had all of his troops in transport I found that him ending up coming in after turn one is actually quite a good thing, as you're not standing around getting shot up.

Heavy Support
Daemon Prince: mark of nurgle, cloud of flies, iron hide, daemonic flight, breath of chaos= 235
Daemon Prince: mark of nurgle, cloud of flies, iron hide, breath of chaos, daemonic gaze= 195
Daemon Prince: mark of nurgle, cloud of flies, iron hide, breath of chaos= 175
Fairly self explanatory, they wander about punchin' and vomitin'.

Total= 1501

Overall, the idea is to boost the tally by using breath (puke) of chaos on units at the start of the game, as such I have six breath users in the army.

thanks for looking,
happy wargaming

Maybe this is a modeling concern, but your list looks like it would be boring to play. I mean no offense by this, but maybe some variety would make it more interesting.

thats a fair point:
i'm planning to scratch build my heralds and Epidemius, and have all different Daemon Princes to keep things fresh.
I was also thinking of making up some executioner from resident evil style ogres to act as beasts of nurgle

Not to be contentious but Ku'gath is better than all three Nurgle Heralds and then some. He will also get your tally up much quicker. I would go with three units of PBs and two of nuglings (they are surprisingly good with Epidemius)
All your DPs need wings. FMCs are just so much better than static DPs. Two Dps with wings and breath, flies and touch and iron hide and unholy strength

HQ
Epidemius= 110
- keep this guy of course/i]

Herald of Nurgle: palaquin, breath of chaos= 95
Herald of Nurgle: palaquin, breath of chaos= 95
Herald of Nurgle: palaquin, breath of chaos= 95
[i]- lose them all

Ku'gath 300

- he will decimate anything in his path with up your count with a 24' template attack

Troops
7 Plaguebearers= 105
7 Plaguebearers= 105
7 Plaguebearers= 105

- three are plenty at 1500. They are slow and often don't even reach their objective, lol. But that is Nurgle.

7 Nurglings= 81
- good.
7 Nurglings= 81
- add them in a tally list.

Heavy Support
Daemon Prince: mark of nurgle, cloud of flies, iron hide, daemonic flight, breath of chaos= 235
- almost perfect, add noxious touch and gaze for 30 pts. No breath. So figure 235 pts
then do one more another 265 pts.

Daemon Prince: mark of nurgle, cloud of flies, iron hide, breath of chaos, daemonic gaze= 195
Daemon Prince: mark of nurgle, cloud of flies, iron hide, breath of chaos= 175
- Bad. Way too slow and FMCs are better

Total= 1501
- now you at 1357 points. you can add more nurglings/bearers, or a few beasts not that I like them. I would add the nurglings.

Well that is my 2 cents worth of advice. I don't agree the list is boring. Most lists spam certain units. BTW, I've seen similar lists do quite well in 6ed. Because the heavy FMC lists are popular and everyone wants flamers and screamers does not mean Nurgle is bad. It can work.

Nurgle suffers from speed. To keep it pure, go Kugath and lose 1 deamon prince and give both of them flight. Now if you can handle a little variation. Add some flamers of Tzeentch (really Pukers of Nurgle). They provide some pain units with speed for the enemy to worry about while your nurgle boyz make their slow march toward the enemy,.

Hmm, just some advice from an up and coming veteran. Go with what other people are saying, upgrade any DPs you have to Flying, keep breath of Chaos. All else is optional and in need of review for point efficiency. I go with Iron hide, wings, mark, noxious touch, cloud of flies, and Breath of Chaos for 245 points. Remarkably efficient. Always Take noxious touch over unholy might, and never take them both. Ever.

On one DP i saw that you had Gaze and Breath. This is not allowed as per the DPs rules. Unless it has the mark of Tzeentch, it can only take one of the abilities listed at the end of it's entry (it can't take any if it has khorne).

But yeah, take two FMCs over three regular DPs any day. They will kill faster, get into combat sooner, and kill faster in combat, thereby raising the tally much much much faster than three regular DPs

Also, not sure whether or not to take Epi with a higher number of bearers instead of 7 nurglings. My suggestion would be to Drop the points spent on the nurglings and add more plaguebearers to one of the units of 7 (raising it up to 13 or something higher if you have more points.) Bearers have t5 and FNP which nurglings don't. Nurglings also aren't scoring, and take double the wounds from blasts or templates. This one is optional, but I think that they would do better.

But yeah also, Drop the three Heralds for something more points efficient. They are good, but way too slow, and a little lacking when it comes to point efficiency. Get another FMC for the points you have invested in those three heralds. It will deal more damage quicker.

In the end, you will end up with a very monotonic list, consisting of only Epidemius, Plaguebearers, and FMCs, but that will be the best list for the tally. It might seem very bland, but heralds, beasts, and nurglings don't do as well in this army. And if you have more points at the end, add more squads of plaguebearers and increase the numbers of the other squads. It will give you the best use of the tally.

Good advice. I have seen nurglings used in these lists to good effect but I do not play Epidemius myself - just played against him (a fellow at our club has done very well with a tally list). I don't see large squads doing much (PBs) as they really cannot dish out much damage. You just have to hope for good scatters and sit 'em on objectives. Nurglings buffer and tar pit. With the tally they actually kill things. I gave up on PBs in my lists (I'm not confining myself to Nurgle only.

I like DAddicts idea of adding pukers of Nurgle. They would certainly add some punch to the list. Flamers just do damage now. I use at least one squad in my lists now and often three.

Taking Daemon Princes of Nurgle with wings... WINGS. Competitive? As far as Daemons go. Fluffy? I don't think so.

Pukers don't add to the tally though, right?

 ghastli wrote:
Pukers don't add to the tally though, right?

Sadly no. But if you don't go nuts on them they are a good unit to make the enemy not focus on killing your real nurgle boys.

Hedkrakka wrote:
Taking Daemon Princes of Nurgle with wings... WINGS. Competitive? As far as Daemons go. Fluffy? I don't think so.

Fluffy? Why aren't they fluffy? I see them as fluffy as a newborn white kitten. Sounds pretty fluffy to me if i do say so myself

I have done very well with Epidemius, a GUO, a few large units of plaguebearers, and 3 FMC DPs.
I really can't see taking princes without flight, especially in a painfully slow list like Nurgle Daemons.

Why does everyone think that Nurgle Daemons are slow? I feel like you forget that everything deep stirkes where you want it to. I used to play green tide orks in 5th, and that is slow.

 ghastli wrote:
Why does everyone think that Nurgle Daemons are slow? I feel like you forget that everything deep stirkes where you want it to. I used to play green tide orks in 5th, and that is slow.

They have this rule called "Slow and Purposeful" it makes them slower than normal models.

This rule makes it so that they cannot run.

Maybe before being a donkey cave, you should read the rules.

 nolzur wrote:

 ghastli wrote:
Why does everyone think that Nurgle Daemons are slow? I feel like you forget that everything deep stirkes where you want it to. I used to play green tide orks in 5th, and that is slow.

They have this rule called "Slow and Purposeful" it makes them slower than normal models.

This rule makes it so that they cannot run.

Maybe before being a donkey cave, you should read the rules.

You can still deep strike, putting you turn one where I would hope to be footslogging by turn two or three.

Hedkrakka wrote:
Taking Daemon Princes of Nurgle with wings... WINGS. Competitive? As far as Daemons go. Fluffy? I don't think so.

You really don't have to put wings on them to give them flight. We're not talking CSM, we're talking Daemons, and for them, flight is just that-flight. Irt says right in the codex that it can be by other means than wings- magic, warp powers, etc.

Hell, you could explain it as the daemon's rot produces a foul gas that floats them along.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ghastli wrote:
You can still deep strike, putting you turn one where I would hope to be footslogging by turn two or three.

Deep strike, sit there in a tight formation (can't run) and not do anything till next turn. In the opponent's turn, they simply have to move away and shoot you.

You also seem to be forgetting the 2d6 scatter ~83% of the time.

The slowness that people are referring to isn't necessarily for snagging objectives, it's for catching up to your enemy to put the hurt on them.

I have been on both sides of an all-nurgle list with nothing that moves fast, and it is pretty easy to simply lead them around the table shooting them to pieces and taking minimal casualties.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, it's not CAN deep strike, but MUST deep strike. There is a big difference.

I play a Nurgle Epidemius list, and while I try to keep it fluffy, some unit's are just too usefull to pass up. With our daemon princes, our only anti-vehicle being tied up trying to maximize killing to get the tally up, you need something to get those pesky vehicles killed. As such, I myself run small unit's of screamers and flamers of Tzeentch. As it would seem unfluffy to have tzeentch unit's in the list, I had to improvise, so I came up with

Bilespewers (Flamers) Using the flamer model, and some glue-slime, I made these look like horrible vomit-spewing monstrosities.

Plaguebats (Screamers) These were a piece of cake conversion, but I got myself a box of tyranid gargoyles (The ragged wings look great), built them with no heads or arms, and added greenstuff scabs and pustules on the wings. I then cut off the horn on the gargoyles to make kind of pincer-things at the front (Though tentacles or tongues would work too).

By using your imagination, you can really add that little bit of anti-tank you need in this list

Also, in my own list, I run 3 groups of 9 nurglings. These things will almost always survive 3-4 turns, and once the tally is up to 10, they become killingmachines. Once it's up to 20, they are unbelievable. At such a low points cost, they are well worth it no matter what you are facing. Even if they don't kill with them, they can block and channel enemy movement, or tie up unit's till you are ready to deal with them (Space marine devastator's en masse, for example)

Heralds, are not really worth it for the points, you could add almost a whole nurgling squad for their cost, even with the flamer being a little handy.

My list (1500)

Epidemius

8 plaguebearers x 3
9 nurgling bases x 3

6 bile spewers (Flamers, to take out one thing at the start that's really scary, like a huge squad of 'ard boys, or a clump of terminators, that kind of thing)

3 plaguebats x 3 (Screamers, to give you anti-vehicle, since killing vehicles should not be left to your daemon princes, who should concentrate on killing as many individuals as possible with breath)

2 x nurgle daemon princes with iron hide and breath.

1 flying nurgle daemon prince with breath. (Anti-flyer, and just generally nice )

Ok, few points.

1: How is flight not nurgle? im guessing the blight drone no longer exists.

2: Pure nurgle list isnt really one that contains screamers and flamers, thats a twin god list.

3: You really do want ku'gath in your list.
He will soak up enough shooting that the other player will be screaming.
His template attack will boost your tally stupidly quick, and also remove serious threats.

4: Nurglings are only good once you have the tally moving.
They can work as a tar pit until then, but remember that VtB does not make life easy on them, so stay hidden or keep away from templates.
Also remember they dont have SaP, so apart from princes, they are the fastest thing in your list.
Do remember they dont have FNP though, so will die rather quickly.

5: I like the idea of breath on heralds to keep units away, but with overwatch its only D3 hits, so not enough to keep you out of assault, and not enough to beat the damage ku'gath will be doing.

Just my thinking anyway.

Evileyes wrote:

 Jackal wrote:
Ok, few points.
1: How is flight not nurgle? im guessing the blight drone no longer exists.

Diddn't say flight wasn't nurgley, just that one flying daemon prince is usually enough, especially when they are nurgle ones, due to being tougher. By having the other two on foot, you save 120 points, which is a heck of a lot when you look at what it can buy you.

2: Pure nurgle list isnt really one that contains screamers and flamers, thats a twin god list.

I diddn't suggest a pure nurgle list. I suggested a fluffy Nurgle list, as the topic asked for. Rather than playing a mixed god list, which is unfluffy, or a single god army, which generally will have big weaknesses, you can convert and paint other god's unit's to look nurgley. In terms of gameplay, they are still Tzeentch. In terms of fluff, they are simply some more variation's on the many different daemons of the Nurgle realm, through the power of imagination.

3: You really do want ku'gath in your list.
He will soak up enough shooting that the other player will be screaming.
His template attack will boost your tally stupidly quick, and also remove serious threats.

300 points is too much of a risk for a mishap, or being tied up with some assault unit. Plus, his ability to spawn 1 base nurgling squads is just handing out killpoints. Plus he can't fly, and is slow and purposefull, meaning he can only ever move 6 inches a turn without assaulting, which is quite a pain. 300 points get's you 12 screamers, which is going to kill a hell of a lot more, and even survive longer. There is just better stuff, even for a fluffy army.

4: Nurglings are only good once you have the tally moving.
They can work as a tar pit until then, but remember that VtB does not make life easy on them, so stay hidden or keep away from templates.
Also remember they dont have SaP, so apart from princes, they are the fastest thing in your list.
Do remember they dont have FNP though, so will die rather quickly.

3 wounds for 12 with 5+ invulnerable points means, that if the enemy is trying to kill them instead of the important stuff in your army, they are wasting shots, which is great. They actually can kill fairly well against non-elites, by having a pure dicebucket of attacks. 9 nurgling bases, get 36 attacks on the charge, even if they are rubbish at attacking, some of those will pay off. And by the time you have the tally up, they are almost certainly either still alive and ready to wreak stuff, or dead, but the rest of your army is almost untouched as a result

5: I like the idea of breath on heralds to keep units away, but with overwatch its only D3 hits, so not enough to keep you out of assault, and not enough to beat the damage ku'gath will be doing.

I tried this, but honestly most people know to just shoot plaguebearers, not assault them if they can avoid it. They are slow, so people will just move away rather than get caught up with them, and shoot them from 12+inches away.

Also, Nurgle daemon princes, with jetpacks instead of wings, soaring about. It's the future, and it would be hilariously good fun to convert ^^

Ghastli: Daemons deep strike because they come from the Warp. That doesn't mean they're fast.

I agree that a Nurgle DP with wings is awesome, probably cool looking and effective on the tabletop. But a Nurgle DP with wings isn't fluffy IMO. Why? Same as in the Ork codex extry about the Mega Warboss on a Warbike-he'd fall a lot. And it's too fast for Nurgle-Remember Nurgle Daemons are all S&P (except DPs). A Tzeentch or Khorne DP with wings is clearly fluffy, I guess Slaanesh would want those nimble DPs too so I guess it's also fluffy but Nurgle's armies are supposed to advance singing and ringing bells while marching slowly and spreading pestilence according to the fluff, so I don't really see how a DP with wings fits into this scheme.
Just an opinion, of course.

What I mean is that their speed is irrelevant. If you deep strike properly, you don't need any speed.

 ghastli wrote:
What I mean is that their speed is irrelevant. If you deep strike properly, you don't need any speed.

That's right. Sorry.

 ghastli wrote:
What I mean is that their speed is irrelevant. If you deep strike properly, you don't need any speed.

This used to be more the case, but unfortunately now, since slow and purposefull stopped them being able to run, most nurgle units cannot do a single thing the turn they deepstrike, plaguebearers, heralds, beasts (lol) are all stuck wherever they scatter, giving the opponent time to react, jump in a rhino, and zip 12 inches away. Then since we can't run, it turns into a very one-sided game of chase.

Hedkrakka wrote:

 ghastli wrote:
What I mean is that their speed is irrelevant. If you deep strike properly, you don't need any speed.

That's right. Sorry.

There are enough units in this list to surround most armies, making their escape difficult/impossible. I played against daemons the other day and they surrounded me. Being IG, all of my units were relatively close together for orders purposes, and I didn't really have anywhere to go.

Evileyes wrote:

 ghastli wrote:
What I mean is that their speed is irrelevant. If you deep strike properly, you don't need any speed.

This used to be more the case, but unfortunately now, since slow and purposefull stopped them being able to run, most nurgle units cannot do a single thing the turn they deepstrike, plaguebearers, heralds, beasts (lol) are all stuck wherever they scatter, giving the opponent time to react, jump in a rhino, and zip 12 inches away. Then since we can't run, it turns into a very one-sided game of chase.

That's just a risk you have to take if you're playing Nurgle. If that's a concern, one should probably be looking for competitiveness rather than fielding a fluffy list, and that would be perfectly fine.

There are enough units in this list to surround most armies, making their escape difficult/impossible. I played against daemons the other day and they surrounded me.

Really? You don't have blob squads with power axes and commissar? You have no vehicles? No flyers? Daemons will scatter all over the table, they come in piecemeal and your IG could not shoot them down? They cannot attack when they arrive. And the shooting in this list is weak compared to IG.

That's just a risk you have to take if you're playing Nurgle.

I've been taken apart by an Epedemius/Ku'Gath list. But he used FMCs and flamers. I was not playing IG though. I was palying a list that I thought could handle them - GK but it was close and I lost. I agree that playing an all foot Nurgle list is not the way to go.

Hedkrakka wrote:

Evileyes wrote:

 ghastli wrote:
What I mean is that their speed is irrelevant. If you deep strike properly, you don't need any speed.

This used to be more the case, but unfortunately now, since slow and purposefull stopped them being able to run, most nurgle units cannot do a single thing the turn they deepstrike, plaguebearers, heralds, beasts (lol) are all stuck wherever they scatter, giving the opponent time to react, jump in a rhino, and zip 12 inches away. Then since we can't run, it turns into a very one-sided game of chase.

That's just a risk you have to take if you're playing Nurgle. If that's a concern, one should probably be looking for competitiveness rather than fielding a fluffy list, and that would be perfectly fine.

Oh I know that, was just responding to his comment on how a deepstriking unit can still be slow.

I love my nurgle (With a pinch of tzeentch) list how it is

Hi guys,
Thanks for all of the replies!

With regard to the points raised:
- RE Ku'Gath:
personally i prefer multiple breath of chaos to one large blast, although i appreciate that they can scatter, ganging up on a unit with two or three breaths has a larger effect on the tally.

- RE speed:
having looked at the arguments, i understand both. effective deep striking should put me where i need to be- that doesn't mean that the opponent can't then move!
with that in mind, i'm considering removing the palaquins from the heralds as well as removing the illegal daemonic gaze. I would use the points on adding daemonic flight (helicopter blades) to a second daemon prince.