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How does this list of shooty orks look? I feel it brings a good amount of boom boom. 200 shoota boy shots, 1 ap 2 large blast, 20-60 str 7 loota shots, 9 str 8 kannon shots, 18 (36 on waaggh) str 6 pinning shots, and 4 twin linker rokkits from outflanking koptas. Let me know what you guys think, thanks. Oh and DAKAKAKAKAKKAKAKAKAKAAAA! Also,

HQ:
Big Mekk KFF, BP- 90
Big Mekk SAG, Cybork, BP, ammo runt- 113

Troops:
4x 25 shoota boyz, 3 Nob, PK, BP

Elite:
10x lootas- 150
10x lootas-150
aegis defense line- 50
Heavy Support:
3x 3 Kannons- 180
3x 3 ammo runts-27

Fast Attack:
2x dakkajet- 240
4x rokkit koptas- 180

Total: 1850 shooty orks

More Shooty: Take out all the Boyz, put in 2 deff dreads for troops, make 45 Lootas, play against Dark Eldar and laugh constantly.

Not really a competitive option, looking for constructive comments, hence the tournament in the title

Loving this list Not sure what your preferences are but two boomguns might do well with what your running. My two cents

Would like to see boom guns, but YAY for shooty orks.

Yeah, Looted Wagons might actually be better than the Deffkoptas. Rokkits being AP3 blows nuts for Deffkoptas (you know, needing 6's to blow up vehicles now). But Boomguns can do serious damage to infantry, don't need to roll to hit, can hit lots of different vehicles at once with new (old 3rd ed.) template rules instead of the 1 target those Koptas can shoot at, and you can just about fit 2 in for the price of those 4 Koptas. It is sort of a problem given your Big Guns, though, so maybe that 3rd Lootas unit? (I sort of feel like that's too many lootas, however. Personal taste.)

Consider a Landing Pad instead of the Defense Line for your Lootas and Big Guns. Do you really think you need the Quad Gun? A 4+ invul and a raised platform from which to shoot for 25pts less is something to think about. They're a lot harder to charge up there, and invuls can't get negated by anything at all, unlike Cover saves. And they'll be able to see over things.

Why are your Dakkajets only 120 each? Why wouldn't you take the +1 Bs?

I'm not aware that Ammo Runts do anything at all for a SAG. Just saying.

What are you planning on doing with all those Shoota Boyz? I'm a little prejudiced against them, but I just don't feel they can be a very aggressive tool footslogging around like that; more of a big old glorified speed bump just waiting to get Leaf-Blowered off the table in a bad way. They have little to no honest hitting power and not very good threat range either, in my experience. I'd try and make them more mobile, to make them more threatening, and give them some sort of hammer unit to run alongside (meganobs, for instance, with the new SnP and Power Weapon rules). I don't know, food for thought.

Ammo runts allow you to "re-roll one roll to hit for a shooting attack per game" according to the codex. The SAG does not roll to hit, so I doubt it lets you re-roll the scatter dice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

orkdom wrote:

What are you planning on doing with all those Shoota Boyz? I'm a little prejudiced against them, but I just don't feel they can be a very aggressive tool footslogging around like that; more of a big old glorified speed bump just waiting to get Leaf-Blowered off the table in a bad way. They have little to no honest hitting power and not very good threat range either, in my experience. I'd try and make them more mobile, to make them more threatening, and give them some sort of hammer unit to run alongside (meganobs, for instance, with the new SnP and Power Weapon rules). I don't know, food for thought.

Shoota Boyz' advantage over Slugga Boyz is versatility. Sluggas literally can't shoot and can't overwatch. Shootas are good at both, especially the latter. All you lose is 1 Attack and you gain an extra shot, 50% more range, and Overwatch with a tremendous amount of shots. So they can stab those who want to shoot them AND shoot those who want to stab them. Fight Zerkers with Slugga Boyz and get added to the pile of skulls under Khorne's throne-Shoot them with Shootas and you actually have a chance (albeit small) to take them! Add the fact that you can't run and charge in the same turn anymore even with the Waaagh!, their strengths are even more emphasized. Sluggas are better in Trukks, Shootas are better in BWs, and they're both equally feasible on foot IMO. Depends on what you want them to do. Some even like to bring a combination of them. I believe they have equal merit. Give the Shoota Boyz a try-I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised.

I just played a game against a shooty BA list with 3 stormravens, and basically tabled him by turn four. The stormravens fell pretty quickly to the lootas and kannons. The shoota boyz are a glorified speed bump, but going as far to say that they pose no threat just isnt true. I don't know if you have been on the receiving end of 80+ shoota shots but they grind down most enemy troops and then can swarm them on a charge, still getting 3 attacks each and the pk. Plus they are the perfect defense for the gun line of lootas, SAG, and kannons. Also footslogging a unit of nobz or meganobz has never worked, and in this list I can't afford putting them all in BWs, but I dont need to because my fire support is much better.

Hedkrakka wrote:
Shoota Boyz' advantage over Slugga Boyz is versatility. Sluggas literally can't shoot and can't overwatch. Shootas are good at both, especially the latter. All you lose is 1 Attack and you gain an extra shot, 50% more range, and Overwatch with a tremendous amount of shots. So they can stab those who want to shoot them AND shoot those who want to stab them. Fight Zerkers with Slugga Boyz and get added to the pile of skulls under Khorne's throne-Shoot them with Shootas and you actually have a chance (albeit small) to take them! Add the fact that you can't run and charge in the same turn anymore even with the Waaagh!, their strengths are even more emphasized. Sluggas are better in Trukks, Shootas are better in BWs, and they're both equally feasible on foot IMO. Depends on what you want them to do. Some even like to bring a combination of them. I believe they have equal merit. Give the Shoota Boyz a try-I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Not talking about Shootas v. Sluggas; in that sense I definitely agree they're a superior option. I just don't think 100 of them (4 mobs) is the most aggressive option for the 760pts you spend. I think 1-2 (probably 2) mobs is good enough for them to do what they really do: act as a moderately threatening speed-bump to protect the lootas and also grab objectives in cover. They simply don't have either the reach or the power to really smash a lot of other units in the game, and for similar points you can take units that do seriously threaten large portions of the table, so why wouldn't you? Here's a list I played yesterday which beat a Chaos Marines list in under two turns (we quit, having reached a point at which it was obvious the rest of the game would just be clean-up for me):

HQ: SAG Mek
HQ: SAG Mek
Elites: 10 Lootas
Elites: 10 Lootas
Troops: 20 Shootas (Nob, PK, BP)
Troops: 20 Shootas (Nob, PK, BP)
Troops: 12 Trukkas (Nob, PK, BP) + Trukk (BS, RPJ, Ram)
Troops: 12 Trukkas (Nob, PK, BP) + Trukk (BS, RPJ, Ram)
HS: 2 Grot Bomm Launchas
HS: 2 Grot Bomm Launchas
HS: 2 Grot Bomm Launchas
Fort: Skyshield
Ally HQ: IG Company Command Squad (Lascannon)
Ally Troops: Veterans (2 Flamers)
Ally FA: Vendetta
Ally HS: Manticore

This uses FW Grot Bomms so it might not be okay with certain groups; but given allies, I really feel like there are much better uses of 380 points than 50 extra shoota boyz. The list above I used trukkas simply because I don't yet own any Dakkajets; those trukk mobs didn't do jack for me, but that's just as much as the Shoota boyz. And all 4 of those units could have been very useful in the event that something actually got to me; the shootas to suck up charges, the trukkas to flash out and respond wherever needed (for instance, aiding the Shootas with some extra attacks in the second round of an assault).

You put Orks and Guard together and you can bring an incredible amount of cheap firepower to the table. Taking a SAG and the Trukkas alone out of this list adds 3 Dakkajets in; that's 4 flyers on top of a Manticore and 6 Grot Bomms, plus 20 Lootas and a SAG on the Landing Pad. Would you rather have 50 Shoota boyz?

For further illustration of the options cutting out 50-60 shootas opens up, here's another list I played today, 2,000 this time, in which I actually did table a DE army in 2 turns:

HQ: Bikerboss (PK, CB, BP)
HQ: Megaboss (CB, BP)
Elites: 10 Lootas
Elites: 10 Lootas
Elites: 10 Lootas
Troops: 9 Bikernobs (Painboy, 2 PK, BP, Banner)
Troops: 5 Meganobs + Trukk (RPJ)
Troops: 18 Shootas (Nob, PK, BP)
Troops: 18 Shootas (Nob, PK, BP)
FA: Deffkopta (TLRL)
FA: Deffkopta (TLRL)
FA: Deffkopta (TLRL)
Fort: Skyshield

At 1850 all you lose is 10 Lootas. This list has both serious firepower (the sort which can really wreck a lot of armies in a hurry), and on top of that it has some incredibly aggressive assault units which can really maul a good majority of other units in the game. The shootas in this list, even at 18-strong and only 2 mobs, did their jobs perfectly. Their jobs were: guard the lootas from assault (fought off some reavers) and sit within walking distance of covered objectives. I didn't even need them, of course, because I demolished the other guy (I really felt bad about it!), but 36 shootas were there doing everything you could ever really expect shootas to do. So why take 100?

I have tried IG allies and love how cheap Vendettas are, adding twin linked lascannons to an ork army is amazing, but at the same time I don't really like to bring allies, Im not a big fan of Orks working with anyone. Also I really don't think those trukk boyz are any good. With only two trukks they really pose no threat, then the trukks get blown up and your left with a small unit of boyz, which inst very useful. Also foot slogging meganobz seems like a huge huge point sink. They are easily kited and cost a lot. The best mobile threat that I want to add to my army is unit of 5 or more nob bikers with a boss. They are super mobile and much more resilient. I don't use any of the forgeworld stuff so I have no idea what those things are, but the kannons seem pretty useful so far, although a third unit of lootas might just be better. Also units of 20 boyz only need one or turn rounds of shooting before they lose mob rules. When running floot sloggin at 1500+ points you need more then 40 shoota boyz, trust me. But you are right I don't think 100 is necessary.

For allies, I always think it's really lame unless you come up with some cool orky counts-as conversions. With IG it's relatively simple-- rebel grots (I use old GM grots like Da Red Gobbo as my company commander) and looted vehicles. For my necron allies, I have 20 Tinboyz/Runtbotz made up led by a heavily cyborked mek with KFF (Overlord with Res Orb). It's all about creativity there, just like everything else in an ork list. The possibilities are sort of endless.

Grot Bomm Launchas are 1-shot barrage battlecannons that cost as much as a trukk and come in units of 1-3. But yeah, if you don't use FW, or your group doesn't generally allow it, kannons are a pretty nice unit now as well for what you pay. Adding the Grot Bomms made the list a kind of crazy orky pseudo-leafblower list, with 4 flyers to boot.

When I used the Trukkas, my idea was to leave them in reserves and let them act as counter-charge units. You think 1-2 trukks will get blown up really quick, but not necessarily when you have so many other much more threatening stuff on the table. The thing about 1-2 trukks is, you don't just throw your assault units at the enemy line (actually, you never ever just do that, as 'orky' as people think that is, it's just a stupid plan); you leave them in your back-line, hidden behind ruins or something, keeping quiet until something comes along trying to threaten your guns. Against assault-heavy lists that would chew through a mob of shootas really quick, this can actually be very useful. It gives you much greater ability to gang up on enemy units with your mobs as well-- where a 2nd shoota mob is a bit slow and unweildy and won't necessarily be able to get around and charge the unit eating up your 1st shoota mob, trukkboys are great at providing a second-round infusion of attacks to a combat you might be steadily losing with just the shootas.

Footslogging Meganobs are terrible, I absolutely agree. If you're going to take nobs without a transport, it just has to be bikernobs. But even bikernobs can't be the only serious assault threat in your army-- as scary as people think they are, they only have a 4+/5+ save, and they will die to the sort of attention that being the only mobile threat in your force will give them; footslogging shoota boyz don't count as another assault threat, either. With just bikernobs, you'd really have to use them just as carefully as a couple trukk-mobs, and in that case I think you're honestly better off with the trukks for a whole lot less points. A 600pt bikernob unit will suck up a lot of enemy shooting, but it will also suck up 600pts.

Thanks for your comments. Just to clarify I wasn't trying to troll or even argue that your points weren't valid. I actually really appreciate the constructed comments. The only thing about trukks being a sort of counter charge unit is that its only 12 boyz, and they always strike last. They wont do much against enemy cc oriented groups, and in that case sometimes have double the amount of boyz, even if they lose the +1 attacks is better, just because they will actually survive the higher initiative steps and get to strike back. But I could see some situations where your shoota boyz are locked in combat and some brothern with sluggas and choopas come help out. The goal of my original list is to have a completely shooting ork army, and I think our discussion has lead me to believe that the full groups of 25 shoota boys is more than enough of a "speed bump" protecting my gun line, but I'm still trying to figure out what I want to do with the points. In all honesty my lootas did great things last game, especially against his flyers and light armour, I might add another group, or some nob bikers. The nobs wouldnt go chasing after the enemies best CC group, but rather kill some tanks and threaten their own gun lines and boom boom. Thanks again for the input from another warboss.