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I'm only interested in news and rumors for Warhammer 40K, and nowadays when I go to the News and Rumors forum I have to scroll through dozens of new start-up companies either advertising new conversion bits or new kickstarters, before I can find a link to actual material that I am interested in. I think it is time to make a News and Rumors option for each game individually, rather than lump them all into one link. Thoughts?

That would be a larger pain than it's worth. While there are a large variety, I don't think there's a large enough volume to justify multiple categories.

You know at the top of the News and Rumors forum there's a GW Rumor Roundup by Kroothawk right?

Here you go.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/371300.page

Right at the top. Hope that helps.

Not only that, you can easily do a search... Granted most of the 40k related news and rumors threads are near the top as is...

I come here cause all the news & rumours are in the one forum. It's to hard to keep track when they are all in separate sub forums. Plus normally the most interesting are near the top.

Yeah, I feel like a geezer complaining about this to you young whipper snappers who joined Dakka within the past couple years.

Could you also show me how to play DVDs on my telephone machine?

 Oaka wrote:
Yeah, I feel like a geezer complaining about this to you young whipper snappers who joined Dakka within the past couple years.

Could you also show me how to play DVDs on my telephone machine?

Sure, first you'll have to get a cable that takes the red, yellow, white cable to USB, and then USB to micro USB then I will show you...

Sorry if it seems like you're "old" about this issue... There are a lot of non GW news and rumors, but there are just as many things related to 40k... I think the top 10 or so have a majority of them as 40k.

No, I don't think so. I think the mods do a pretty great job of keeping that forum trimmed and as concise as possible. Sometimes it can seem pretty busy, but it is never as busy as a section on news and rumors has the potential of being; pure chaos.
It's easy enough to exalt/post to follow a thread for a game you like to see new posts or just keep track of it if you feel like posting something.

Maybe not for each game, but I'd be happier if the kickstarters got their own section. I'm tired of wading through them to get to actual news/rumors, kind of like the old 'survivor' threads...

This is a gaming site, not a GW site. That's what makes it great IMO. All your GW rumors should still be on page 1 anyway, if you can't scroll through one page worth of posts to find the GW ones then I don't really know what to say.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cruentus wrote:
Maybe not for each game, but I'd be happier if the kickstarters got their own section. I'm tired of wading through them to get to actual news/rumors, kind of like the old 'survivor' threads...

They are news, just like any other. Insert "I am tired of wading through GW news to get to actual news/rumors" and you will find the problem with your statement.

It's getting to dang elitist in here with what people consider "proper" and "worthy" news and rumors.

The mods and admins of the site have already said that there is no reason to have a separate kickstarter forum, because like d-usa said, they're legitimate news and rumors as well..

Considering how we still get 40k threads in the Dakka Discussions section, I wouldn't want to split that up.

 Oaka wrote:
I'm only interested in news and rumors for Warhammer 40K

So we are opposite then

Also, with GW's anti-information policies, there's not enough to fill up a whole forum with news for them alone (assuming you don't want to see any 3rd party parts intended for 40k either, since that's what most of the threads in N&R are). Not even close!

Big GW news is always at or near the top. I really can't believe it is that tough to find the latest stuff? As for older, there is a search function.

I don't think N&R will be changing anytime soon guys...

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Big GW news is always at or near the top. I really can't believe it is that tough to find the latest stuff? As for older, there is a search function.

I don't think N&R will be changing anytime soon guys...

This. Plus, I like being exposed to other games and products in the N&R forum that I otherwise would not hear about. I am not a game store regular so I get the buzz from there.

 Oaka wrote:
Yeah, I feel like a geezer complaining about this to you young whipper snappers who joined Dakka within the past couple years.

Could you also show me how to play DVDs on my telephone machine?

Huh. And here I am, been around about as long as you have (it must be the default old-timer join date for this version of the board) and I'm quite happy with them all in the one forum. I've become much more interested in a diverse range of games, as well as the news and rumours for them. I actually use the same method to filter stuff as we did back in the days of winch-up-powered internet. I just don't click on the crap I'm not interested in.

I think a minority of users on this forum feel the way Oaka does, myself included. I don't expect it to change though.

To me, the myriad "kick-starter" posts represent a kind of advertising that is neither news nor rumors in the same sense as Corvus Belli's newest offerings or the CSM scans. It feels like the 5-10 seconds of commercials one sees before being able to access Youtube content. It's business. It's marketing. It seems like a distinct and growing trend in that particular sub-forum. Sure, I can live with it. I certainly can see were the OP is coming from.

Mattman154 wrote:
That would be a larger pain than it's worth. While there are a large variety, I don't think there's a large enough volume to justify multiple categories.

Currently, as it stands, news and rumor is a complete mess. I generally dont go anymore.

 AesSedai wrote:
To me, the myriad "kick-starter" posts represent a kind of advertising that is neither news nor rumors in the same sense as Corvus Belli's newest offerings or the CSM scans. It feels like the 5-10 seconds of commercials one sees before being able to access Youtube content. It's business. It's marketing. It seems like a distinct and growing trend in that particular sub-forum. Sure, I can live with it. I certainly can see were the OP is coming from.

That's certainly one way to look at it. Another way though is to consider the fact that a Kickstarter is something that is actually happening now. Kickstarter threads usually include details of the project, concept art, sculpts... all updated as the project goes along.

Compare that to all the threads along the lines of 'I spoke to 'x' at Games Day, and they said that Codex: Black Space Marines is next'... which turns out in 3 weeks time to be incorrect.

Which of those is more newsworthy, in the long run?

 insaniak wrote:

That's certainly one way to look at it. Another way though is to consider the fact that a Kickstarter is something that is actually happening now. Kickstarter threads usually include details of the project, concept art, sculpts... all updated as the project goes along.

Compare that to all the threads along the lines of 'I spoke to 'x' at Games Day, and they said that Codex: Black Space Marines is next'... which turns out in 3 weeks time to be incorrect.

Which of those is more newsworthy, in the long run?

Neither is exactly "newsworthy" to me. The former is interesting fodder for discussion (the Games Day example), the latter is some product sketch, CAD render, or what have you (and sometimes not even that) for something that may or may not ever happen. Sure, the kickstarter is happening now, but the product could be years away.

Meh, I'm fine with it either way, as carmachu mentioned, it usually means I can skip N&R, because its mostly a mess (ymmv), and I can find out about new products just as easily from TMP or other forums I frequent.

And I've joined in some of the kickstarters, and checked out new companies through N&R, so I am in no way saying it should be a GW only thing (far from it). The real question is what is "news" and what is "rumors" versus what is advertising.

 Cruentus wrote:
Neither is exactly "newsworthy" to me. The former is interesting fodder for discussion (the Games Day example), the latter is some product sketch, CAD render, or what have you (and sometimes not even that) for something that may or may not ever happen. Sure, the kickstarter is happening now, but the product could be years away.

But they're both things that may or may not ever happen, and that could actually be years away.

The real question is what is "news" and what is "rumors" versus what is advertising.

Why does there need to be a distinction?

If 'Company X' releases a new miniature, then posting about it is news... but it's also advertising that miniature. That's not a problem... it's the whole point of the News and Rumours board. It exists to spread the word about anything new to do with miniatures and wargaming. And that, by very definition, includes Kickstarters... because whether or not someone likes the format, and whether or not the project is ultimately successful, news of a kickstarter project is still hobby-related news.

 insaniak wrote:

 Cruentus wrote:
Neither is exactly "newsworthy" to me. The former is interesting fodder for discussion (the Games Day example), the latter is some product sketch, CAD render, or what have you (and sometimes not even that) for something that may or may not ever happen. Sure, the kickstarter is happening now, but the product could be years away.

But they're both things that may or may not ever happen, and that could actually be years away.

The real question is what is "news" and what is "rumors" versus what is advertising.

Why does there need to be a distinction?

If 'Company X' releases a new miniature, then posting about it is news... but it's also advertising that miniature. That's not a problem... it's the whole point of the News and Rumours board. It exists to spread the word about anything new to do with miniatures and wargaming. And that, by very definition, includes Kickstarters... because whether or not someone likes the format, and whether or not the project is ultimately successful, news of a kickstarter project is still hobby-related news.

Stop being so logical, you're making my poorly thought out counter arguments look worse than they already are

If Company X is releasing a model, or rules, or whatever, then that is news, I agree. There is also the expectation that I can buy said product in the near future. There was a period when many companies were putting up CAD renders of things, with no timelines, no actual release plan, just renders, and there was pushback because they weren't actual "releases" or "pre-release" and in most cases were just renders (vapor). Kickstarters to me fall into the same category. They are news, but you're unlikely to be able to buy the products advertised there until some time after (and in the case of miniatures, usually a significant amount of time). And really, they're pre-order mechanisms wherein the company has zero obligation to actually deliver.

But, its all personal opinion, and as many have mentioned, it won't change, so I guess ongoing discussion is pretty pointless.

 Cruentus wrote:
There was a period when many companies were putting up CAD renders of things, with no timelines, no actual release plan, just renders, and there was pushback because they weren't actual "releases" or "pre-release" and in most cases were just renders (vapor). Kickstarters to me fall into the same category. They are news, but you're unlikely to be able to buy the products advertised there until some time after (and in the case of miniatures, usually a significant amount of time). And really, they're pre-order mechanisms wherein the company has zero obligation to actually deliver.

True to a certain extent. I would see the difference though being that when a company shows vapourware, we're left with just saying 'That's a pretty picture' and then just waiting around to see if it is ever actually turned into a model.

With a Kickstarter, you have the opportunity to help make that model happen... You can say 'That's a pretty picture' and then essentially pre-order it.

Yes, certainly there are risks with a kickstarter, but that doesn't make it any less newsworthy. And those risks are minimised through doing your homework on a company before you choose to back them, or limiting your investment to an amount you are prepared to lose if it goes belly-up.

But, its all personal opinion, and as many have mentioned, it won't change, so I guess ongoing discussion is pretty pointless.

Not pointless at all if it results in a better understanding of why we have not acted on the many calls for Kickstarter segregation. We would rather that Dakkanauts understand that we consider these proposals but have reasons for rejecting them, rather than that we just ignore everyone's opinions. Even if you don't agree with a specific decision, it's easier to accept it if you at least understand the reasons behind it.

What if news and rumor threads required visual tags, Icons chosen to help categorize them upon creation? It could help people sort through the forum at a glance.

Orange 40K for warhammer 40000
A slightly lighter orange WHF for warhammer fantasy
Bright yellow MTC for mantic games
Lime green KS for kickstarters
Red TPB for third party bits makers
Light blue WMH for warmachine or hordes
Pink INF for infinity
White or gray TER for terrain
Then maybe a couple of other miscellaneous tags for different things like younger companies and board games.

I guess it has limitations for certain colorblind users, but at least they would get the abbreviations.

 Dais wrote:
What if news and rumor threads required visual tags, Icons chosen to help categorize them upon creation? It could help people sort through the forum at a glance.

Orange 40K for warhammer 40000
A slightly lighter orange WHF for warhammer fantasy
Bright yellow MTC for mantic games
Lime green KS for kickstarters
Red TPB for third party bits makers
Light blue WMH for warmachine or hordes
Pink INF for infinity
White or gray TER for terrain
Then maybe a couple of other miscellaneous tags for different things like younger companies and board games.

I guess it has limitations for certain colorblind users, but at least they would get the abbreviations.

Or how is this for a crazy idea:

Read the title of the thread.

What if it's a kickstarter for a third-party bitz maker, Mantic, WMH, infinity or terrain?

Too complicated, too hard to remember what's what... and as we've found with swap shop tags, people don't follow the guidelines, which just results in work for the moderators. If people can't bother following something as simple as the swap shop title format, they're not going to bother with a dozen different news tags.

Obviously, we're not keen on anything that means more work for us...

A more universal adoption of the [Game Name] tags would be nice. So you'd get something like:

[40k] New CSM!
[WHFB] Wood Elves Rumor
[40k] HH News
[Privateer Press] Colossals!

 Cyporiean wrote:
A more universal adoption of the [Game Name] tags would be nice. So you'd get something like:

[40k] New CSM!
[WHFB] Wood Elves Rumor
[40k] HH News
[Privateer Press] Colossals!

But most the threads are already including this info, they are just not in brackets.

 d-usa wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:
A more universal adoption of the [Game Name] tags would be nice. So you'd get something like:

[40k] New CSM!
[WHFB] Wood Elves Rumor
[40k] HH News
[Privateer Press] Colossals!

But most the threads are already including this info, they are just not in brackets.

Everytime I see "HH products now available!" in N&R it takes me a minute to figure out wtf it is before going 'Oh! Horus... skip.'

If it had the [40k] tag I could save valuable seconds!

While it makes sense, I can attest that this is a lot of work! The "miscellaneous games" subforum is a good example. The swapmods are ostensibly helping maintain the titles in that area... but it's easy to let it slip, and it takes a long time for users to start adding the tags on their own, and even then a significant number don't.

I think it's a good idea, and perhaps we'll hit a critical mass where something would need to be done as far as a new subforum/tags/etc, but the same could be said of any of the forums.