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As the title says;

Double all vehicles HPs and double the HPs lost when receiving a Penetrating hit. Glancing hits still only reduce HPS by one.

Note: I mentioned this in a similar thread earlier, but it was more about the damage table and not HPs specifically.

Let's guess who just played against Necrons?

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Let's guess who just played against Necrons?

Nope, just noticed that there is little variety in weapon choices. For instance, why bother taking a zonethrope when you can get a cheaper hive guard that spams something very close to as the same effectiveness twice. Why use a tactics and actual anti vehicle weapons when you can sit back and spam cheap glance weapons with little comparable risk for the same reward. I know just saying I'm a space wolf player carry's a missile spam stigma like no other army.in 40k, people presume that my army is full of missiles and rune priests.

If we had a harder/longer time glancing things to death then people would be forced to thing of new anti armour tactics. Because as of now players can't spam and more than they do, they would be slower, justifiably, to destroy vehicles than the player that spends the points on the more antiarmour weapon, develops a new tactic or risks life and limb bringing melta weapons into range.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just saying we should be rewarded more for getting penertating hits and given the consolation prize for glancing hits.

Essentially this makes AV 13/14 vehicles better while keeping AV12/11/10 vehicles about the same.

And Land Raiders need help...

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
And Land Raiders need help...

No, but they'd be worth 250 points you pay for them if they didn't get glanced to death by turn 2. I could accept it being destroyed by successive penetrating hits by tun 2, least then we'd aim to get penetrating hits rather than shrug and say whats the point when I can take all those weapons that can glance it to death for almost half the cost. AV10 vehicles wouldn't be glanced to death by S4 weapons, as they are pretty much the average basic weapon strength (well the only one that can glance vehicles). You'd actually hope for a 6 with Haywire weapons rather than being content with a 2-5 result. Gauss weapons would obviously have to roll twice as many 6's, not upset about that as I think its a bit rich for a standard troop to be able to destroy any non-super heave vehicle on 1-2 rounds of shooting with basic weapons.They will just have to deal with 1-3 rounds of shooting instead. The missile spam army's of the wolves might actually seem laughable if they lose the ability to be so blisteringly effective against vehicles. The list goes on.

Right now, its laughable to take anything with an AV, its either over priced or over priced and destroyed by round 2.

 Bausk wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
And Land Raiders need help...

No, but they'd be worth 250 points you pay for them if they didn't get glanced to death by turn 2. I could accept it being destroyed by successive penetrating hits by tun 2, least then we'd aim to get penetrating hits rather than shrug and say whats the point when I can take all those weapons that can glance it to death for almost half the cost. AV10 vehicles wouldn't be glanced to death by S4 weapons, as they are pretty much the average basic weapon strength (well the only one that can glance vehicles). You'd actually hope for a 6 with Haywire weapons rather than being content with a 2-5 result. Gauss weapons would obviously have to roll twice as many 6's, not upset about that as I think its a bit rich for a standard troop to be able to destroy any non-super heave vehicle on 1-2 rounds of shooting with basic weapons.They will just have to deal with 1-3 rounds of shooting instead. The missile spam army's of the wolves might actually seem laughable if they lose the ability to be so blisteringly effective against vehicles. The list goes on.

Right now, its laughable to take anything with an AV, its either over priced or over priced and destroyed by round 2.

You're over-estimating firepower.
That basic strength 4 gun takes 27 (BS4) to 36(BS3) shots to kill an AV10 target.
Since pretty much all AV10 is open topped (or at least open framed, ala land speeder/warwalker), it's pretty reasonable to say that the massed bolter fire has killed the crew/controls.
If I run 8 to 9 trukks, you're going to need ~364 bolter shots, since I'll be getting that 5++ bubble. That's 243 hits, 40.5 glances, of which 27 fail the cover save.

To put that in prospective, it's 60 marines rapid firing for half the game just at truks (at ~315 points of trukks).
Please, do this all game long. It's how I win. That same firepower directed at orks (still in the bubble) would kill 81 of them.

On the flip side, If I run my 6 russes it would take you 324 BS4 krak missile shots to bring them down.
Vehicles are plenty good. If you don't see them being used successfully, odds are you aren't seeing them be used the right way, or in large enough numbers.

-Matt

 Bausk wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
And Land Raiders need help...

No, but they'd be worth 250 points you pay for them if they didn't get glanced to death by turn 2. I could accept it being destroyed by successive penetrating hits by tun 2, least then we'd aim to get penetrating hits rather than shrug and say whats the point when I can take all those weapons that can glance it to death for almost half the cost. AV10 vehicles wouldn't be glanced to death by S4 weapons, as they are pretty much the average basic weapon strength (well the only one that can glance vehicles). You'd actually hope for a 6 with Haywire weapons rather than being content with a 2-5 result. Gauss weapons would obviously have to roll twice as many 6's, not upset about that as I think its a bit rich for a standard troop to be able to destroy any non-super heave vehicle on 1-2 rounds of shooting with basic weapons.They will just have to deal with 1-3 rounds of shooting instead. The missile spam army's of the wolves might actually seem laughable if they lose the ability to be so blisteringly effective against vehicles. The list goes on.

Right now, its laughable to take anything with an AV, its either over priced or over priced and destroyed by round 2.

Mate, you've missed the point of land raiders

Land raiders have two roles: To throw terminators into the fray and to soak up damage. If your opponent destroys it by turn two, how much shooting did he waste to do that? How many Missile launchers did he throw at that little 250 tanky-wanky instead of at your more vulnerable hitters, like predators and vindicators?

Also, average stat for ANYTHING in the game is 3. Except leadership and saving throws. 3 is the average, even if we see more fours. Okay? Always has been, always will be.

A bolter isn't shooting a 7.62mm round. It's shooting a small rocket. It can tear through the armour of a speeder and that of a raider.

Wolves armies are ridiulous because longfangs were an oversight. They ruined the way Wolves should have worked as an assaulty army. That's separate to this arugmnet.

Now, how about raiders and other DE and eldar tanks? Have you played eldar? Christ, it can take four turns to simply shave off a hull point on those things. How would they work with this?

Yup. I have taken out raiders and trukks with just as much ease now as in 5th edition. Only now, glancing to death means one less die roll.

Land Raiders are bullet magnets. They eat a lot of heavy weapons fire. Mine are cursed because they never get anywhere past turn 1, but that's because I forget to check the enemy's fire zones. That is my fault.

I agree with most people here in that the HP system works just fine against everything but Necron's. Gauss weapons are a bit OP, and Necrons hardly need any dedicated anti-tank. Anytime I look at a Necron list I always automatically assume that any high strength weapons are just for MC killing. I mean if Pierre Billotte can sustain 140 hits from Pz3's and Pz4's, why can't a Leman Russ take more than 3? I'd like to see a dice added to glance with something like 1-3 no HP removed, 4-6 1 HP removed.