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So, I'm finally startin da orks, and as I prepare to ramp up production, I'm obviously going to want to be working towards a solid list so that I can get to something playable as fast as possible. For budgetary reasons, my first ork army is going to be a warbike mob. Nothing says "value" like models that cost 80 points apiece at most.

I've done a little research, but wanted to get more specific advice:

Wazdakka
Warboss, bike, cybork, combi-skorcha, klaw

7x nob bikers, painboy, 3x klaws, 2x big choppas,
2x kombi-skorchas, bosspole, waaugh banner, cybork bodies

10x warbikers, Nob with klaw, bosspole
10x warbikers, Nob with klaw, bosspole

10x slugga boyz, trukk with RPJ, ram

For 1500 points. Everything is fast. Everything scores. No time for long-range dakka when I'm going to be in assault turn 2 guaran-damned-teed. And before people start telling my about how lootas are mandatory in every ork list, I'd just like to point out all those big shootas everywhere, and the fact that I'm going to be klawing things starting turn 2.

The sort of odd thing in this, of course, is the trukkboyz. They're more there because I don't know what else to do with the points and less because I really want them.

maybe drop the trukk an get more bikes? or deffkoptas would fit very nicely in this list. see if you can get 2 deffkoptas with TL Rokkits into the mix flying about poppin transports.

The trukk is odd, go for grots if you want a token scoring unit or more bikers.
I would have an extra bosspole in the nob squad, maybe even one on the warboss as well, in case he decides to lead some bikers.

Hitting aeroplanes and hitting mech at range are both important, and are probably the only things you list lacks.
Aeroplanes I think is obvious in 40k right now.
Ranged antimech, is just that it just takes too long to get into base to base contact with the enemy. Plus meat shields around tanks et cetera mean shooting is the only answer.

Some would take dakka jets or lootas, they are too low strength I find.

Rocket buggies would be great, they are cheap and can get cover from your bikers. TL for antiflyer goodness.
Deff koptas, especially when lead by a warboss with bosspole and bike, are great.

I'd drop the Nob bikers and get hordes and hordes of regular bikers if you want Wazdakka, or else get a Bike Warboss instead. Wazdakka is only worth it if you fill your Troop slots with Bikers IMO, since they all get a PK and get all the same dakka at the cost of a wound each. Sure, they're worse in CC but you'll have so much dakka and so many T5 4+ bodies that it won't matter.

Actually, the nobs are scoring cuz of warboss. Cybork bodies on the nobs is always good, but losing them gives the potential for a lot more bikes. Also, never got the point of big choppas, 5 points for strgth 7....u have powerklaws...meh

Oh wait, sorry, I haven't seen the warboss. Editing post now...

That's a lot of nob for 1500. I'd think about dropping 3 or 4 to get some lootas or more normal bikes. I think the trukk squad doesn't really fit either. More bikes!

As much as I have always loved the idea of an Ork Biker list, your regular ork Biker is just way too expensive. 25 points for something that hits just as hard as a regular Ork Boy isn't efficient enough.

Also, only having 12 Orks means your bikers will be testing on a paltry leadership 7 very quickly.

So Bikers are too expensive and Nob bikers are fairly priced? I disagree. Bikers may hit as hard as an Ork Boy, but they shoot way nastier dakka and are much, much more survivable. Almost as survivable as Nob bikers. The difference is that Bikers only should charge decimated units. They are good at surviving and have a lot of dakka to weaken most units effectively. For leadership issues, they have a BP.

If all you want is killing power, join us in Commorragh-We don't care much about survivability either

Hedkrakka wrote:
So Bikers are too expensive and Nob bikers are fairly priced? I disagree. Bikers may hit as hard as an Ork Boy, but they shoot way nastier dakka and are much, much more survivable. Almost as survivable as Nob bikers. The difference is that Bikers only should charge decimated units. They are good at surviving and have a lot of dakka to weaken most units effectively. For leadership issues, they have a BP.

If all you want is killing power, join us in Commorragh-We don't care much about survivability either

Re-rolling a LD7 still isn't very good.

I never said Nob Bikers were fairly priced, they're just not as overpriced as regular Bikers are.

Also, the problem is that when you run heavy Ork Biker lists your army will never be much more than Ork Bikers. That means they won't be able to charge decimated units because there's nothing else in the army to weaken them.

TL BS 2 shooting won't kill space marines reliably enough.

3 shots TL s5 bs5.
5/9 hit each, 10/27 wound, 10/81 kill. So every 8 shots kills a marine. There's 30 shots from one biker squad in his load out.

 pretre wrote:
3 shots TL s5 bs5.
5/9 hit each, 10/27 wound, 10/81 kill. So every 8 shots kills a marine. There's 30 shots from one biker squad in his load out.

I must say, you couldn't present that math any more confusingly than you did.

A 340 point killing 3.7 marines isn't awful, but that still just isn't good enough IMO.

Fractions are hard now?

Squad is only 290, btw.

Also, the squad can charge and kill a bunch there or just dance outside of the marine's range.

As an aside, the return fire from marines is less effective.
16 shots, S4
2 Shots, S8 (Melta, ML)
2/3 hit, 2/9 wound, 2/18 get through cover.
2/3 hit, 10/18 wound, 10/36 get through cover.

84/36 dead warbikers - 2.33

Granted, the marines are a bit cheaper, but... Still pretty decent. Gets worse if the orks charge the marines.

The point isn't math though, it is that for 25 points each you get a durable unit with great anti-infantry shooting that can glance transports and even take down light flyers if they are lucky. (11/36 hits per shot vs Flyers) Rerolling Ld7 is definitely a weak point though.

Ork bikers are relatively cheap as long as they do not run off the board.
25 pts for good firepower and a cover save they take with them, then they have speed and mobility.
It is strange to compare to an ork boy above.

 Ailaros wrote:
So, I'm finally startin da orks, and as I prepare to ramp up production, I'm obviously going to want to be working towards a solid list so that I can get to something playable as fast as possible. For budgetary reasons, my first ork army is going to be a warbike mob. Nothing says "value" like models that cost 80 points apiece at most.

I've done a little research, but wanted to get more specific advice:

Wazdakka
Warboss, bike, cybork, combi-skorcha, klaw

7x nob bikers, painboy, 3x klaws, 2x big choppas,
2x kombi-skorchas, bosspole, waaugh banner, cybork bodies

10x warbikers, Nob with klaw, bosspole
10x warbikers, Nob with klaw, bosspole

10x slugga boyz, trukk with RPJ, ram

For 1500 points. Everything is fast. Everything scores. No time for long-range dakka when I'm going to be in assault turn 2 guaran-damned-teed. And before people start telling my about how lootas are mandatory in every ork list, I'd just like to point out all those big shootas everywhere, and the fact that I'm going to be klawing things starting turn 2.

The sort of odd thing in this, of course, is the trukkboyz. They're more there because I don't know what else to do with the points and less because I really want them.

Drop the combi weapons
Drop the big choppas

Add an attack squig for the warboss
Add another boy to the slugga mob
Add eavy armor to the slugga mob nob
Switch the slugga mob to shootas

I say drop the trukk all together, 12 boys do nothing. Between the snap-shots and going last in combat you will ether be wiped out or forced to take a leadership test.

Also, do not assault with bikes unless you know you can win with minimum casualties. Pre-measuring is our friend, you want to stay 18" away from the enemy.

I recommend you drop some nobs(maybe have 5 with painboy), drop the combi on the boss, drop the trukk and have 3x7 bike squads

Hazard30 wrote:
Also, do not assault with bikes unless you know you can win with minimum casualties. Pre-measuring is our friend, you want to stay 18" away from the enemy.

Now whilst assaulting is not always the best idea it happens to be a good idea a lot of the time. Moreover whether to assault or not is more complex than looking for minimal casualties, you will always have causalities when assaulting with orks.

Moreover whether to assault or not is more complex than looking for minimal casualties, you will always have causalities when assaulting with orks.

Which is even worse when your playing with bikes, you lose about 1 in the overwatch, and you go last in combat. This does not bode well for Ld7 since you will probably lost combat.

Having such low amount of troops can run you in some big problems. Therefore, assaulting should be the last thing on your list.

Enticing them to assaulting you is another matter, overwatch alone will net you some kills and your going last anyways so no harm there...and the overwatch more than enough makes up for the lost attacks.

A bike list is all about maneuvering, shooting, and priorities(ie kill things that put out more shots, not stronger) to be able to survive..4+ only goes so far.

Hazard30 wrote:

Moreover whether to assault or not is more complex than looking for minimal casualties, you will always have causalities when assaulting with orks.

Which is even worse when your playing with bikes, you lose about 1 in the overwatch, and you go last in combat. This does not bode well for Ld7 since you will probably lost combat.

Having such low amount of troops can run you in some big problems. Therefore, assaulting should be the last thing on your list.

Enticing them to assaulting you is another matter, overwatch alone will net you some kills and your going last anyways so no harm there...and the overwatch more than enough makes up for the lost attacks.

A bike list is all about maneuvering, shooting, and priorities(ie kill things that put out more shots, not stronger) to be able to survive..4+ only goes so far.

Bikes should ALWAYS be the ones charging in if you have a choice. The difference in damage output is far too great to say that overwatch will pick up the slack. The fact that bikes are more than fast enough to decide when and where said charges happen should only reinforce this.

If you charge, you get the 3 TL-dakkagun shots, an I 10 hammer of wrath S3 auto hit, and 4 S4 attacks on top of that as well.

If you let him charge you, you've got 3 BS 1 TL dakkagun shots, and 3 S3 attacks, that are still going later. I don't think a single S5 hit and 3 S 3hits beats roughly 2 S5 hits, a free S3 autohit before regular swings, and 4 regular hits. I'd much rather get the charge if I know I'm going to be in combat, instead of standing around with overwatch. Their overwatch is good don't get me wrong, but that just seems like an odd view to take on them. You also have to count in that if you don't charge them, whatever bonuses the enemy unit have can mess you up more as well, and they'll more than likely have a free round of shooting to soften you up too.

As for the list, I'd drop the trukk, and either spend those points towards spreading your bikes out into more squads, or take something like rokkit koptas, or even a dakkajet. Basically anything fast with powerful shooting. I'd also drop a nob or 2 from the nob mob (maybe a PK and one of the regular choppas or 2) as that seems like insane overkill at 1500pts. Are you just trying to eat up some points so you don't have to field as many bikes at first?

So, I've been thinking about it more, and retooled it to look more like...

Wazdakka
Warboss, bike, cybork, combi-skorcha, klaw, attack squig

6x nob bikers, painboy, 3x klaws, 2x big choppas,
2x kombi-skorchas, bosspole, waaugh banner, cybork bodies

8x warbikers, Nob with klaw, bosspole
8x warbikers, Nob with klaw, bosspole
8x warbikers, Nob with klaw, bosspole

1500 points

It looses a trukk a nob biker, and 10 boyz, but gains 6 more bikes, one with a power klaw. The leadership thing of smaller squads does make me fret, but having three squads is probably better.

As for the killing power of bikes, this is the one thing I have absolutely no doubts in. The bike moves 12", shoots w twin-linked 3-shot S5 weapon, then charges, gets hammer of wrath, and then 4 more +S attacks. Plus a klaw. That's withering damage to anything. Then on top of this, you get T5, and a permanent 4+ cover save, and the ability to keep out of small arms range if you don't want to be in it.

An above 8-bike unit against a tac squad is going to kill 3 marines with shooting, are unlikely to even lose a single bike to overwatch (even with a flamer in the squad - they still wound on 5's, and they've still got 4+ armor), and will then kill another 1 with hammer. The marines chump a biker at I4, and then the orks put down another 2 with their furious charging, and the nob krumps another two with his klaw.

In this not unlikely scenario, by the end of the ork player's turn, the tac squad has lost 8 marines and is down to just two. The bikes have lost 1 bike, and are down to 7. It's not even close. Of course, this is what I'd expect, what with the bikes costing a fair bit more than the tac squad, but still, if you're wondering where the anti-MEq is... well... here it is.

I'm not even worried about fliers either. Fliers have predictable flight paths, and bikes are fast. With three units, it's not going to be unthinkable to get a squad in the rear arc of one, all of which are AV10. 24 TL dakkaguns puts down an average of 2.5 glancing hits per round of shooting, with the chance to pen. I'm honestly not worried at all about fliers with those kinds of odds. Worst case, wazdakka can move 24" and STILL fire his ultracannon...

As for the big choppas, they're there because I have a small number of points to burn. Giving them nearly the same killing power against vehicles (while wounding basically everything else on 2's) doesn't seem like a waste of 5 points to me, especially if I can't find somewhere else to spend them.

I am actually rather interested in buggies, though. I'd be loathe to loose bikes at the moment to make that happen, though. Perhaps if I went with my original list, but swapped out the trukk+boyz for a 3x rokkit buggy thing. That or make the leap to 1850 nothing more than adding 9 buggies...

You guys are greatly over-estimating the power of an biker charge,

If you do it, you will lose, even if you do win the squad is essentially useless.

I have been playing bikes exclusively at the end of 5th, and all during 6th. Charging in not the answer, you can learn that for yourself, or you can actually think about it.

Regardless, Buggies are pretty sweet...I don't run any at 1500pts(I run 3 flyers) but at 1850 I add them(drop a flyer), and those twin-linked rokkits are never worthless.

With regards to the last list Allaros posted, I think that the idea to drop the boys and the truck was very good. The one thing that I would change is that I think 3 power claws in a 6 man nobz squad may be a bit overkill, especially with the Warboss. I recommend removing 1 claw, and also removing 1 bike from the 3rd boys squad, and adding another plain nob biker. This gives them a sacrifice unit, which gives much more durability before starting to have to give up the powerfu unsymmetric l stuff or the painboy. I know, I know, this makes the boys and as much as i abhor that idea, you don't lose model count and you gain more than what you lose in symmetry.

Another much more radical idea I had is splitting each biker boyz into 2 squads, so the list would look like this:

Wazdakka
Warboss, bike, cybork, combi-skorcha, klaw, attack squig

7x nob bikers, painboy, 2x klaws, 2x big choppas,
1x combi-skorchas, bosspole, waaugh banner, cybork bodies

4x warbikers, Nob with klaw, bosspole
4x warbikers, Nob with klaw, bosspole
4x warbikers, Nob with klaw, bosspole
4x warbikers, Nob with klaw, bosspole
4x warbikers, Nob with klaw, bosspole

This list is easier to manuver and allows for more power claws. I have no clue if its better or worse than before just thought it was worth a thought.