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That's right, I'm starting some orks, so sit down and read the blog!

DA OBJECTIVE

To create a 1500 point ork army for fewer than $100. Can it be done? I don't know, but it's going to be tried!

Also, I'd like to get it done by next April, but that might just be a crazy over-reach.

WHY DA ORKS?

So, this is a sort of complex question.

As practically everyone knows, I'm a guard player, and I love my foot guard to death. After all of these years working on this huge army, I'm starting to come to the conclusion that I'm sort of... done. Yes, I don't own any fliers, or practically any vehicles. There is still room to grow within my collection, and playstyles of guard I haven't fielded yet. By "done", then, I mean that I've now gotten to the point where I now have the models to do basically anything that I will personally want to do with guard with only minimal proxying. Another way of thinking about it is that, in the past, I'd think "I'd like to try those", and then would have to make models for them. Now when I write up guard lists, well, there isn't much of a modelling requirement any more.

Naturally, then, I'm wanting to be able to branch out into things that I can't already do with guard. As such, I'm going to want to start an army that's really rather different than guard.

As some of you may know, I had an abortive attempt to start a CSM army. Why not continue with that? Firstly, the reason I started a khorne army in the first place was to perfect the play style I was doing with my 5th ed power blobs. The point was to make better guardsmen. As 6th ed has basically thrown this all out the window, and now that my goal has changed, it kind of doesn't make sense to continue.

By why orks? Orks make it into the pool in the first place by being, well, different. Yes, a shoota green tide is similar to what I've got going on right now, but that's rather the only point of contact. Guard don't have anything similar to a mass slugga trukk charge, or a kanz/buggies spam list, or an all warbikes army, or an 1850 point list that's 4 battlewagons filled with MANZ.

Secondly, there is a playstyle thing going on here that I was kind of missing when I started CSM. The point isn't to have one strategy that I make better, the point is to play the army that will get me the most enjoyment out of the game. For me, that means a proper, bloody krumping. Gunlines bore me to tears, and skimmer armies or MSM armies that always skirt away from a proper fight have always been frustrating opponents for me. I didn't throw down minis just so that I could pick them off the table as I vainly attempted to get some close ranged shooting or close combat in.

In order to get a proper game in against DE skimmer spam or MSM tau suit spam or gunlines, I'm going to need to have a certain kind of army. I'm going to need something fast and hard-hitting, rather than the cumbersome attrition machine that the guard used to be good at.

By this point, the pool is already pretty shallow, but for why orks in specific, I'll put up some quotes thrown at me in recent weeks by what has got to be the best salesperson for orks on dakka:

MrMoustaffa wrote:
So, I'm going to shock everyone here, and say that the army I picked with a more "mature" intent was orks.

That's right. Orks. And not the super serious, uber grimdark orks, I'm talking the wacky, da red wuns go fasta, the neva enuf dakka orks. And do you know why? Because they live in the crappiest universe imaginable. Everyone hates them. They have crummy technology, were abandoned by their own creators, and are essentially a slave race. Life didn't give them lemons, it gave them a sledgehammer to the face. And you know what they did with it? They took that mallet, made it more choppy, painted it red, and beat life's skull in with a brick, just because they could. They refuse to let life bring them down, and proceed to have time of their (short) lives. And why not? If all you'll ever see is war, why not enjoy it? These are the guys who literally flew straight into the gates of hell (the eye of terror) to find the greatest fights ever. and had a great time while doing it, even as hideous warp entities swarmed around them.

I'm going through a lot in my life right now, and while I know I'm well off compared to most, i still have periods where i'm very down or depressed. But everytime I see my orks, I can't help but smile. If they can take the hellish nightmare world of grimdark 40K and turn it into the the journey of a lifetime, then I should have no trouble getting my own life on track.

Which adds to the other "mature" facet of the orks. Any ork can make a name for himself if he's willin to fight and win. Even ghazgkull himself was once one of da boys. And although he had a bit of help from da dok, he still had to fight his way to the top. Every nob, every warboss and warlord, was nothing more than an average ork boy when he started out. No other army or force in 40K works like this. A guardsman , no matter how well he fights, will never become a lord general. A necron warrior will never become a kryptek. Etc. But ork boys all have the potential to become one of the greatest warbosses the galaxy has ever seen. It's pretty inspiring to me at least. Of course, there are other things, but those two qualities drew me to orks more than any other.

MrMoustaffa wrote:
They're about as opposite of foot Guard as you can get. Remember, we're not talking about green tide, we're talking about warbiker mobs. May take a boyz mob or 2 in battlewagons, but that's about it. This had a very big selling point that I'm not sure you've considered yet. Look at your army case. I mean really look at it. Look at how big it is. Think about the effort it takes to lug that monster around, take it to the gamestore, take over a table and spend 20-30 minutes getting your army ready. We all know foot IG can be a pain in the arse to field, and can feel draining almost at the end of a day when you're tired and just want to go home and you realize you've gotta pack up all those little boogers again. Now, think about how many models it would take to field that biker horde army. As long as you're not taking 3 dakkajets, you could probably fit said 1500pt list in a shoebox. Think about that. You can unpack your army in like 5 minutes, and be deployed in a few minutes.

You can really go nuts with fluff with them. You can literally make them however you want. All that zaniness you love about orks? You can still do that. GW just had to tone them down because they were too awesome in the older codexes and were more awesome than space marines, but you can restore their glory. Think about all the awesome conversions you can do, with nothing to hold you back. Tradition, common sense, even logic itself can't stop you, it's a friggin ork army, they do as they please. They have devices that literally rip holes in the fabric of reality so they can teleport a one foot tall goblin inside you, you can do whatever you want.

With orks, they fight whoever they want whenever they want. Know how with your guard batreps you have to come up with some excuse as to why your loyal guardsmen are fighting space marines every game? Doesn't matter with orks. Heck, you can say they're intentionally invading a chapter's home world just because they feel like it. No more "well, how do I dance around the fact that I'm fighting space wolves this time?" I don't know how much that appeals to you, but it was kind of nice for me to not have to make up "justifications" of why my guardsmen seemed to go rogue 3 times a week

... which is a hell of a sales pitch.

But there's just one final thing here that seals the deal. Like many people, my financial situation sucks. With the exception of some recently purchased stormtroopers, I haven't bought anything from GW (or ebay, etc.) since... Well, at least a couple of years. I think my last non-bitz purchase was the chimera chassis that became my manticores before my Blood Conquers series, which means about 4 years now. "What are you talking about?" you ask, "You've added a bunch to your guard army since then. You've got your ogryn, your exterminators and hydras, your commissars, your regimental advisers, the list goes on!" That's all true, but if you notice, there's one thing those all have in common: they're scratchbuilt.

So, you're talking about someone with very little money, and with years of experience with GS (and some with plasticard). Say hello to the orks. With orks, you can make their entire army with nothing more than GS, plasticard, and boxes of boyz. Not only will this allow me to take my modelling skills up even a few more notches, but it will allow me to make the most out of the modelling skills I already have. In a way, orks are the ultimate poor-man's army. With SM (another army I considered here), it would just be too difficult to scratchbuild 6 drop pods and 3 assault cannon dreads, at least, and have them look anything but really ghetto. Likewise, I've been able to add a lot to my guard army because what I was adding was infantry - something I can use GS for and people would be none the wiser. Scratchbuilding 12 chimeras that actually look like proper chimers (not bad plasticard knockoffs) is just too much of a challenge for me right now.

With orks, no such problem.

On a more philosophical note, I'd like to add that there is something that feels proper about having an ork army. Almost... wholesome. Like 50% of the fighting in the galaxy is orks fighting orks, and 33% of it is orks fighting guardsmen. Everything else gets wedged into that last 1/6th. Yet despite this, all I ever see is GK v. Necron, or BA v. GK, or DE v. BA. It's like there's an entire galaxy at war, and in one tiny corner of it all the Matt Ward codices are having a fight while the rest of the galaxy sort of just watches.

On the one hand, I feel like every game should have either orks or guard in it, and being able to provide my opponents with what are, combined, by FAR the most common enemies certainly seems... civic? I've gotten a lot of positive reinforcement along these lines, including...

Captain Roderick wrote:Everyone should have an Ork army, as a civic duty to 'the 40k we used to know'.

MrMoustaffa wrote:I think every 40k player should have an Ork army, even if it's a small one. It did wonders for making me relax more about the game and focus on just having fun with it. Before I started my orks, I always stressed about whether I won or not. Now I just care about having an awesome match.

And so there you have it. Why Ailaros is starting an ork army.

DA PLAN

So, how am I going to do it? My first stab at it will be bikes. There is a guy who sells blank bike chassis on ebay for $2.50 apiece. All I need are riders, guns, handlebars, tailpipes, and front wheels. All of this sans the riders are going to be very scratchbuildable. All I need is a disassembled bike or two to know what the dimensions of the missing bitz are. In any case, getting 10 points to the dollar is certainly a great way to start building a 1500 point list for less than $100.

But, of course, it gets better from there. Once I get enough experience with the bikes, I may or may not actually consider scratchbuilding the bikes themselves. A proper bike list is going to have a largish unit of nob bikers, a biker boss, and wazdakka. I'm going to want all of my nob bikes to be a bit bigger and more impressive (like the nobz themselves). Either I could get more bike chassis and convert them to look bigger, or else I could build them entirely from scratch.

If I go the complete scratchbuilt route, then for a list that's two units of 10x bikers, a unit of 7 nob bikers, and the requisite HQ's, all I'd need are 3 boxes of boyz (for the riders), and 18 biker blanks. Paying full price (but ignoring shipping), that's $90 for the boyz and $45 for the bikes. So, how was I intending on getting this in at less than $100? Well, turns out that Ailaros has an ace up his sleeve.



As you can see, I won my last league thanks nearly entirely to having a huge, well-painted, extensively converted guard army. As there were a lot of people in this league, I raked in a fair bit of loot on this one. Loot to be spent on da orks. Take out $85 in store credit, and that means I'm looking at $50 for a total of 29 bikes for a 1500 point ork list.

Now, of course, in proper orky fashion, this objective isn't so much a rule or a deadline so much as it is something to strive for while basically ignoring. As this project progresses, I may start getting too burned out and will wind up going overbudget. Well so wat? Iz krumpin time! No mathboyz's getting in my way.

DA BEGINNIN'

I've still got some guard stuff I need to work on (namely, my stormtroopers still need sergeants, and working with metal is a huge pain in the ass), but while I spend the next week or so finishing things up, I got impatient and got started buying stuff.

The first item is the end of a lot of bike chassis.



Shipping killed me on this one, so I'm going to wait for a full lot to show up before I make my second (and hopefully last) bike purchase.

Cost: $16.65

But what about the store credit? Well, all I need are 3 boxes of boyz, which I can more or less get for $85. The longer I sat and thought about it, though, the more seriously I started looking at the battleforce. I mean, I want bikes anyways, and I need to have SOME source of the original bitz to make my ramshackle knockoffs from. And look at that, there are 20 of the 30 boyz I need. And for only $10 more, I get a free trukk!



Cost: $20.75

Now, If I had no budget whatsoever, I'd immediately go out and buy a second one. Then I'd have all the boyz I need for now, and a second trukk (1/3rd of the total I'd bring to an ork mech list), and even MORE BIKEZ. The problem, of course, is that this would immediately take me up to $100 before I even started. I think I might perhaps need to wait for Christmas or my eventual birthday, or finally getting a job that pays better than minimum wage. Until then, I think I might keep this option off the table, and make the next (possibly only) two purchases be the bike blanks and another box of boyz.

Being impatient, I broke open the battleforce. I promised myself I wouldn't start assembling anything until AFTER my stormtrooper sergeants are complete, but there's no harm in peeking, right?

What I found inside nearly moved me to tears. It is the modeller's... it's paradise.

Were I a regular person, I might be frustrated at all of the useless crap I had to pay for. I get 10 boyz, but I have to buy all these unecessary extra arms and weapons upgrades I'm never going to use. But I'm no ordinary modeller. In my battle force came eight (EIGHT) extra heads that have no torsos. All I need to do is bitz order a few torsos and I have 8 extra minis - because remember all those extra arms? I see the shootaz, and I see bike dakka gunz. I see all the extra detail bitz (like the flying bullets and... well... dozens of random things I have no idea what to do with), and I see endless modelling opportunities.

In short, it's a gold mine. Just this one battleforce could keep me modelling for months. Of course, this even further detracts from the idea of buying a second battleforce, as I really do now already have all the stuff I need. On the other hand. I just had one chest of gold land in my lap. The temptation to get a second is now very high.

The little bit of icing on the cake is the ork legs. I was wondering how I was possible going to chop apart the legs to be able to fit on a bike. Then I look at the bitz and find out that they're the SAME LEGS! The ork stance is naturally so wide that there will be nothing more than perhaps occasionally pivoting some of the feet to get the thing to fit perfectly on the bike.

Not only is this great because there is a lot of stuff for me to take advantage of with my modelling skills, but it almost seems to be designed this way on purpose. It's like someone at GW thought "Orks are the poor man's army. How can we make kits that will allow people with GS skills to be able to get the most junk for their buck?". It's like they knew that a person who believed that you should use all parts of the buffalo was coming around the corner, so they genetically engineered a buffalo with a bunch of extra parts. Useless to the person who just wants a steak, but ... wait, where was this analogy going?

DA QUESTIONS

So, obviously starting a new army I've got a lot of questions. I don't know how many answers I'm really going to get from a painting and modelling blog (so I'll probably have to post them elsewhere in dakka as well), but if you've made it through this entire wall of text, well perhaps you're in the mood to be able to type something of your own.

- How important are ork clans? In the case of space marines, they make it pretty clear that there are several famous chapters, but you can make your own. Likewise, for guard there are literally tens of millions of different regiments, most of which have very little in common with each other. In the case of orks, it sort of seemed rather mandatory. All orks fit into just one of the 6 clans. Each tribe is made up of members of many different clans, but unless you're doing freebooters, it sort of feels like they really rather assume you'll be doing one of their color patterns.

- On a related note. What is the name of that awful speed freeks orange color? The new orks seem to be painted this cherry red color, or a blood angels slightly off-red-in-the-orange-direction color. Can you find their original colors, or just use the new evil sunz orange that GW has put out? Likewise, what's that awful yellow color that the bad moons and evil sunz use?

- Likewise, I want my ork skin to be less of a deep, saturated green, and more of that annoying yellow-green color. What's best for that?

- I want to try washes with this army. Should I be looking more at a brown or more at a black?

- What does a good 1500 point bike army even look like? At first pass through the codex, I came up with something like...

Wazdakka
Warboss, bike, cybork, combi-skorcha, klaw

7x nob bikers, painboy, 3x klaws, 2x big choppas,
2x kombi-skorchas, bosspole, waaugh banner, cybork bodies

10x warbikers, Nob with klaw, bosspole
10x warbikers, Nob with klaw, bosspole

10x slugga boyz, trukk with RPJ, ram

Of course, in this case, I'd need 2 more boxes of boyz, not 1. That does make a second battleforce AWFULLY tempting...

- My bikers came with bases. Traditionally, ork bikes don't have bases. I'd kind of like to not have bases, myself, but should I really use them? What about my bigger nob bikes? The default ones barely fit as it is, and the bike of the aporkalypse (in my case, I'm thinking the boss' name is Wazzblast! (yes, with the exclamation mark), and that his warbike is also a platform for grots shooting rokkits or looted heavy bolters. Something half-bike, half-battlewagon. The Bikkelwaggon!)) is going to be nowhere near fitting on a base. Likewise, ordering a bunch of biker bases is going to be hella expensive.

Bit it would make the models a little higher up, and it would also make them more legal... or would they?

- Anything else I need to know?

Anyways, as mentioned, it's probably going to be a week or two before you start seeing any work here. I just wanted to get this entire block of text out of the way first so that future posts can be more devoted to pictures and tutorials.

Makes me want to start and ork army. Wait, nevermind, I already am.

To answer some of those questions for you:

Clans aren't really that important for a number crunching mechanic. If you are going a kind of fluffy army, then clans are very important.

Not sure what the color is for the speed freaks, but they are orks, it can be any color you like. All that matters is that you pay the point cost for them. Hell, it could be a bright neon pink, if the orks believe it makes them go faster, then it works.

For the yellow-green, I would start with a light green base coat and then dry brush yellow over it. Or you could base coat yellow and give it a green wash, then dry brush yellow over it.

I immensely enjoyed your write up here, and look forward to some progress!

Subscribed!
Rawson

Re: Bases. I would recommend having bases for your guys. Especially with conversion, it helps to be able to show where the model begins and ends. If you are worried about cost, I would do one of two things:

- 1/4 Plastic/Wood and cut your own. I have like 1/8 inch magnet that I use for bases which is fun too. The 1/8 inch magnet I can cut with an exacto. 1/4 you'd probably need something more hardcore.
- Cavalry bases + 25 MM base (cut in half). I've seen this a number of times and I have a ton of silly fantasy bases that I never use from a variety of kits, so this is appealing.

For the big guy (warboss, Wazzdakka), I personally put them on Valk bases but did not glue them down so if someone bitched about the too big base, I could pull them off and put them on a normal bike base (spilling over like crazy).

I'm glad you found an army you're happy with. Congrats!

Re: clans. I don't know what the official stance is, but I really doubt you're locked in to the 6 clans. IIRC, orks release spores when they die, so that even if you wipe out an entire ork army the orkupation isn't over. That means some orks grow from spores without a preexisting clan structure. Unless the clans are genetically entrenched (like mekboy knowledge), it seems like you could have an army that sprang clanless from spores. And that's just one way you could justify it.

Re: the list. I'm not an expert, but I tend to see two biker nobz units in biker lists. I can think of three reasons for that. First, biker nobz are really, really good. Second, target saturation. Third, regular biker orks really aren't that good.

Also, I have a feeling you're gonna find trukks frustrating. Given your luck and their crazy damage table, I'm looking forward to a lot of battle reports that read, "T1: My opponent looks askance at my trukk. It careens to my back corner. My trukk boyz do nothing this game." Maybe break the trukk down for parts instead.

Re: bases. If it comes with a base, it should be on a base. If you're scratchbuilding, do what you want, but I second the more-bases-less-drama argument.

Re: washes. Far be it from me to give painting advice to anyone, but I messed around with orks a little bit and specifically experimented with black and brown washes. Perhaps unsurprisingly, I found that the black wash really made the colors "pop," while the brown wash gave the model a more realistic feel. Since you're going for yellow-green orks instead of green-green, it sounds like you're leaning towards a softer palette, so brown might be the way to go.

Re: the yellow-green. I haven't done it myself, but I saw an excellent blog post on the subject.

I hope this helps. I'm looking forward to see how it goes!

Regular biker orks aren't good? Since when?

Thanks for that link!

I'm still kind of going back and forth on the colors. I like that ork green for the skin (though I'll probably do it just a bit more muted (as in, not with the iyanden mixed in). The trouble is for the rest of it.

Clan requirement or no, I think I'm probably just going to go with clan colors unless I find something unusual that really strikes my fancy (time for a brown and white ork army!?). The problem is that I'm down to two. On the one hand, the bad moons gives a lot straight out of the gate. It takes weathering, BY FAR, better than anything else I've seen, and it would also give me a chance to develop some painting mettle with a yellow army. It's also horribly gaudy, which I also like, and details seem to sit nicely on it.

On the other hand, you have evil sunz. Their scheme tends to create things that look kind of noisy to me (red black and boltgun isn't as clear cut as yellow, black, and boltgun - just look at the two different painjobs on the dakkajet, and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about), and thus less... realistic? The whole thousands of rusty bolts thing really doesn't come across well when your color is red. As well, I'd have to go for the more old fashioned orange-red, which I'd have to figure out how to acquire. The new almost cherry-red of evil sunz has little draw for me compared to the old, more putrid color.

Evil sunz, however, are more thematic to a list that will likely only ever include bikes and jets, and transports. Also, for how good bad moons look individually, when you put them together, a ramshackle mustard-colored army just feels like too much... even for me.

Thankfully, I'm not going to have to deal with this for some time now, but it's still something I need to have resolved.

As for the bases, at first I was going to scoff about taking cavalry bases and splitting a 20mm base in half and adding it. I have 30 cavalry bases, and they're too narrow (I've tried this before). It didn't strike me until just now... I could make the bases wider. As in, cut them in half, and add a little plasticard shunt in there so that they're wide enough.

Of course, the immediate next step was to "well, why don't I just make the bases?" Making the curved surfaces of the ends would be too challenging (thankfully I have a bag of 20mm bases laying around), but the middle of the base would be super easy. Just three pieces of plasticard. Then I could just CUT them to the right size and then throw the ends on.

Once I get to here, though, it solves my nobz problem. I can just cut the bases larger. I can hardly think my opponents will mind me showing up with slightly larger bases so long as they still look like regular bases, and if it means that the models actually fit on their bases.

Which brings me to the end of this all. Making the ends of bases is going to be too hard, but perhaps making the ends of ONE base wouldn't be that bad. I'd be able to make a genuinely larger (rather than just longer) base for my wazdakka/warboss. This would normally be too huge of a pain in the ass, but for just one or two of them?

As for the list, yeah, I'm not too worried about my bikes. T5 with lots and lots of speed, and a free cover/armor save means that they should do okay. I'm also really not concerned about the nobz, which are all that with extra wounds and access to FNP.

I do agree that the trukk is the odd thing out, but so far I haven't gotten replies on my armylist thread. I'd add just a few more bikes, but I don't know what the "right" way to run them is. As such, I dont' know what's going to be better, just a couple of possibly nobless bikes on their own, or a trukk squad.

Trukk squad is good in reserve.

I just started running orks a couple months ago because one of my friends has 10k of them and stomps my Tau regularly (except for the occasion when I can roll average and rapid fire them to death before they touch my FW, which signs a death warrant for the poor little guys...)
Anyway, I agree with the truck statement. They just are too squishy and random. Its worth the extra points for a battle wagon. Plus you get all the extra dakka dakka thrown in, which will both 1, draw a lot of fire from your bikes and 2, deal some serious damage back out. You can have a kannon, 4 big shootas, your boyz shooting out of the back since its open-topped, and even a deff rolla for fun/added death.
As for the paint job, personally I'm a fluff nut. I would go with the Evil Sunz. It may take a while to get that nice red-orange color, but it will be worth it in the end. And rust will actually show up with that paint job. Just have to balance the oranges in the rust and the armor. It can work with trial and error (and more patients)

Maybe just use the trukk squad points to upgrade a regular squad to a nob squad? I have no idea if that's enough points, though.

As for the bad moonz/evil sunz thing, I definitely agree that on a per-model basis, bad moonz look better. I have to think it has something to do with color theory - the schemes are actually green-red-black-boltgun and green-yellow-black-boltgun. Red and green are complementary colors, whereas yellow and green are analogous colors.

Yeah, and that's the problem.

The sunz battlewagon



isn't as good as the moon battlewagon



And the sunz bike



isn't as good as the moon bike



And the sunz dakkajet



isn't as good as the moons



So you think that would be settled.

But then I look at an entire bad moon army all assembled.





And I start weeping mustard-colored tears, and instinctively look for something more conservative.

Hesperus wrote:As for the bad moonz/evil sunz thing, I definitely agree that on a per-model basis, bad moonz look better. I have to think it has something to do with color theory - the schemes are actually green-red-black-boltgun and green-yellow-black-boltgun. Red and green are complementary colors, whereas yellow and green are analogous colors.

Which I'm sure is part of it.

Which is also why I'm looking at a yellower-skinned ork flesh and for a orangier-toned red, to bring the two colors closer together.

Something a little more like:





If not moreso.

The problem I'm having is to figure out how to get the right lightness and desaturation without either washing everything out or making it worse.

As for the trukk thing, I'm a little leery of switching a bike squad to another nobz squad. This would leave me with only 2 scoring units. I could see perhaps swapping it out for a dakka battlewagon, though. I'll probably want to have wagons in the future anyways.

Wow. That flaming battle wagon looks great. Im surprised how good red, yellow, and green works together. I would def recommend using that scheme.
Dakka battlewagons are amazing. Hard to go wrong with a tough troop transport that can dish out tons of shots AND run over marines with ease. Running 2 or 3 of these bad boys in the middle while your bikes take the edges (or visa versa) and your opponent is gonna have to make a tough choice on what he'd rather have smashing into his battle line.

I just realised one of the reasons for the trukk squad - they're cheap. If I were to go for a battlewagon, at 1500 points I'd only have the spare points for a plain battlewagon with a deffrolla, or a plain battlewagon with 4x big shootas, but that's about all.

True trukks are very very cheap. But this is how I think about it.
They are 10 AV boxes. A marine squad using bolters can almost glance it to death in one turn (19 shots, 13 hits, 2 HP gone). Or using a lascannon, it hits on a 3+, pens on 2+, and explodes it on a 4+ (because of open topped and AP 2) That's a 28% chance on just 1 shot.
If your trukk gets destroyed, you're relying on 10 boyz to foot slog it across the board. They wont make it. With those small squads, they only need to take a few casualties before running off the board. Its a waste of points.
So while it is more expensive, the wagon will 1 do more damage, 2 draw more fire off of your bikes (cause it will survive longer) and 3 give your small boyz squads a much better chance of making it into combat.
That's my 2 cents. Of course that's purely from a gaming standpoint. If you would rather do trukks for modeling reasons, I understand. Either way, consider me subscribed!

If you still want to play Bad Moons but you're worried about looking like you're playing with an army made of moldy cheddar cheese, then maybe you should consider inverting the color scheme, and make black the dominant color with yellow the secondary and bolt gun the highlight. That way, it wouldn't look like too much of an eye sore when the whole army is assembled on the table, and it can still be recognized as a Bad Moon army. And black can weather pretty nicely since you can contrast the black with boltgun and tin bitz. Plus, you can still go with the majority-yellow look for some of the figures and vehicles and not have yellow overwhelm the army.

As for your army list, here are the points for it:
HQ
Wazdakka – 180 pts
Warboss– 140 pts
• bike, cybork, combi-skorcha, klaw
7 nob bikers – 495 pts
• painboy, 3x klaws, 2x big choppas, 2x kombi-skorchas, bosspole, waaugh banner, cybork
Troops
10x warbikers – 290 pts
• Nob with klaw, bosspole
10x warbikers – 290 pts
• Nob with klaw, bosspole
10x boyz – 60 pts
• Slugga
Trukk – 45 pts
• RPJ, ram

The biggest problem I see is the nob squad. You are putting a third of your points into 1 unit (more if you put one of your HQs with them). Thats just incredibly risky at this point value. Plus, bikes count as troops, you dont really need the boyz squad.
I would recommend dropping the huge nob squad and putting your 2 characters each in their own normal biker squad of 7 and then running another 2 squads of bikes. This will spread out your points and avoid the "eggs in one basket" symptom. Then I would drop the boyz and Trukk. Very squishy for orks. I would personally take a battle wagon with 4 big shootas, a killkannon, RPJ, Grot riggers, and a deff rolla and then put a squad of lootas or tankbustas inside. This would give you 2 big, tough units and a tank killing machine with a unit inside that can either focus on whitting down squads from the safety of the wagon or have a unit that can destroy another tank while the wagon is killing the first.
This would leave you with:
HQ
Wazdakka – 180 pts
Warboss– 140 pts
• bike, cybork, combi-skorcha, klaw
Troops
7x warbikers – 215 pts
• Nob with klaw, bosspole
7x warbikers – 215 pts
• Nob with klaw, bosspole
7x warbikers – 215 pts
• Nob with klaw, bosspole
7x warbikers – 215 pts
• Nob with klaw, bosspole
Elites
8x tankbustas – 135 pts
• Nob with bosspole
Heavy
Battlewagon – 200 pts
• Killkannon, RPJ, grot riggers, 4 big shootas
Total: 1495 pts
This leaves you with room to change things around, possibly drop a few models/upgrades for another squad, combine into bigger squads, etc. (sorry for all the long postings. just trying to help)

 Freytag93 wrote:
The biggest problem I see is the nob squad. You are putting a third of your points into 1 unit (more if you put one of your HQs with them). Thats just incredibly risky at this point value. Plus, bikes count as troops, you dont really need the boyz squad.
I would recommend dropping the huge nob squad and putting your 2 characters each in their own normal biker squad of 12. This will spread out your points and avoid the "eggs in one basket" symptom. Then I would drop the boyz and Trukk. Very squishy for orks. I would personally take a battle wagon with 4 big shootas, a killkannon, RPJ, Grot riggers, and a deff rolla and then put a squad of lootas or tankbustas inside. This would give you 2 big, tough units and a tank killing machine with a unit inside that can either focus on whitting down squads from the safety of the wagon or have a unit that can destroy another tank while the wagon is killing the first.

The thing is though that your tankbusta/loota wagon setup is almost as expensive as his biker nobs. And it doesn't get a 5+ cover save from moving. Nor are the models inside T5. And putting two tough units together is also putting one's eggs in a single basket, no? What happens if that lone wagon gets nailed and the units inside suffer S4 hits?

Plus, he can still do what you outlined above with his bikerbosses and have a squad of biker nobs riding around on their own.

He wasn't specific as to how he was going to use the trukkers, iirc, but it looks like they're meant for last minute objectives-grabbing. Afterall, there's no nob with powerklaw/bosspole in that squad. I don't think he intends them to be attacking anything. Although I agree with you that a single squad of under-strengthed trukk boys do look fragile.

Skragdakka Urduk wrote:
The thing is though that your tankbusta/loota wagon setup is almost as expensive as his biker nobs. And it doesn't get a 5+ cover save from moving. Nor are the models inside T5. And putting two tough units together is also putting one's eggs in a single basket, no? What happens if that lone wagon gets nailed and the units inside suffer S4 hits?

True. I count them as different things because you can always split the tankbustas/lootas off from the battle wagon, or even just set them up without the tank. It gives more options for the fight. The combo also allows the units inside to shoot at a unit while the tank shoots at a different target. While they do lose the 5+ cover save, the combo isnt (in my mind) putting all the eggs in one basket because you cans split them off and use them to achieve different things at the same time, while the nob bikers can only do one thing at a time. I see your point however.
Also, because the wagon is open-topped, its only S3. Plus the chances of that happening are drastically reduced with the wagon. It would take pretty much all of the opponents shooting to bring it down (barring a lucky shot). If that happens, well they just let the bikes move up without challenging them.
Lastly, the 4 bike squads can always be used to snatch up objectives in the end. The trukk is just so... squishy.
I hope this helps Ailaros.

Nob bikers are SO good, though. T5, permanent 4+ cover, 5++, FNP, as many klaws and dakkaguns as I can handle. The math works very favorably for them. They even beat THSS termies and the like. I could see losing up to 1 of them, but that would be about it. It might be worthwhile, though, to lose the trukkboyz in favor of more bikes. If I dropped the bike squads down to 9 or 8, I could easily have a third similar sized bike mob. Starting the game without fearless, though, makes me a little uncomfortable.

Anyways, now that the weekend's over, it's time to post some work.

By far the biggest hurdle to overcome here is the lack of front wheels to my bikes. The only other scratchbuilding is going to be exhaust pipes and handlebars, but those will be pretty easy by comparison. Once these three things are scratchbuilt, the rest of it is going to be relatively mundane, involving conversion work at most.

To begin with, I went to the hardware store and got some tubing and some more plasticard (cost $10.45).

I then took a bunch of measurements, and got out my 3/8ths inch plasticard tubing. The reason I went with plasticard here instead of aluminum is that metal always gives me crummy edges as the cutting process deforms things slightly, and you're actually going to see the edges in these.

The cut here would be 6mm to get the proper width.

At first, I did my traditional method of rolling the tubing back and forth under my exacto knife, but I discovered to my horror that the circumference of this tubing is just too long for the length of my blade. This meant that there was a part of the tube that went unscored, and would have to be cut through in a single stroke at the end. As this would undermine everything I was trying to do with the plasticard, I needed a plan.

In the end, I decided on making a jig out of plasticard. The tube would go in one end, and the knife would be held in place. I could just twist the tube, and I'd get the perfect scoring around it. Ideally, I'd cut it through on the jig, but reality showed me that this wasn't going to happen. Properly scored, though, I could cut through the tubing with my usual rolling method, just making sure to rotate it a bit as I went to make sure I was cutting along the entirety of the circumference.

Making a jig by hand has a very... orky quality to it. I got some raw materials and some glue, and made my first attempt.



The tube goes in the hole, and butts up against the backplate 6mm away.

But this was all too flimsy and I couldn't get any control, so I put in another piece of plasticard (also with a hole in it) right behind the hole.



This way, I could push the tube all the way in, and the knife would be held steady and at the proper angle.



But this was still too wobbly, so I added in some struts between the second enholed plate and the backing plate.

Things were looking good, but didn't quite sit right. I then took the whole thing, rotated it 90 degrees, and clamped the handle down into a vice. The tube was pushed down into the backplate (which was, in turn, nearly flush in contact with the vice). The tube went down, the knife went forward. A little twisting, and it came out scored.

The cutting was then pretty easy.



Of course, all of them are not quite the same width (some are more like 6.3mm, etc.), but in this case, it doesn't matter. It just has to have a nice clean edge, which it does.

The axle mounts to these, however, are much smaller. As such, I needed a circular piece of plasticard to fit the inside of the tube. Without a compass, this was somewhat challenging.

And then another proppa orky solution dawned on me. I took the tube, put paint on one end, and used it as a stamp on the other piece of plasticard. I then slowly cut around the inside, and voila, properly-fitted circular pieces.



Of course, they weren't perfect, and so needed a bit of knifework to get them exactly right. Also, these things aren't exactly circular, but I'm not actually too worried about that, as any tiny gaps that are created are going to be lost once the thing gets glued, primed, and painted.

If I've learned anything about working with plasticard, it's that you've got to know when to be a perfectionist, and when to let things be good enough. This is definitely the latter.

Anyways, now that I had this, it was time to cut out the axle. This was done with 1/8th inch aluminum tubing, cut to 5mm.

Once this was done, it was just a matter of cutting the holes in the circular pieces I'd just made. Finding the middle was easy, and I just bored it out using my knife as a drill. Once it was getting close to wide enough, I'd be more careful, using the knife to actually cut, and to keep going back until the hole was JUST wide enough for the axle to go through.



This complete, it was time to add rivets. My plasticard rod is just a bit bigger compared to the ones that GW uses, so my plan was to cut the 9 rivets down to 8. It was also a lot easier to space them. Just to mix things up, I did a few in 6 as well.



I was a bit less pleased with this, though. I still don't have a good way of cutting rivets of uniform length and angle. As such, the end result is sort of ghetto. I guess this will have to be one of those orky ramshackle things.

Also, I still don't have a good way of attaching rivets. Putting glue down and sticking the rivets in leaves a sort of halo of glue that kind of drowns out the details when it dries. I'd love it if someone knew a way to handle this, as I fear it will show up badly once I get to painting.

The center plates detailed, it was merely a matter of putting them on the axle. As I'd cut them pretty close, it wasn't too difficult to get them to fit on nicely, and then to glue them down. Because it was going to be rather structurally unsound, though, I also smushed the heck out of it with GS. This actually made it easier to put the back plate on, as I had more give with leaving the correct amount of axle on the other side.



And like a good modeller, I let these all cure overnight. In the morning, I jammed them all into the inner ring, and was good to go.



Once the wheel core was done, it was time to do the tires. My plan for this will be to make the tires out of plasticard, and then greenstuff on the knobby traction parts.

I started by measuring out the diameter of the non-traction inner part of the tire, and it came out to a hair under 2cm (probably 3/4s of an inch on the original). By this time, I had finally found a compass, so I was able to draw and cut some proper circles.



I've got to apologize about the quality of the next few pictures. Turns out the smart phones haven't quite caught up with my proper camera yet.

Anyways, I then did the same thing you saw before. I cored out the middle until it got to the point where the inner wheel could just barely be forced into the hole.



Which I then did.





Then I put down the "face" of the tire. I figured out how to do this while attempting (poorly) to make my own 60mm bases. To do this, I cut out some of my thin plasticard (.20") in a 3mm strip, and then cut off a piece of about 6.15mm or so.

Then, you just put glue down, bend the plasticard at the right curve, and just sort of glue it on. You then continue around the edge until you get to the end. Invariably, the first part you put down will be screwed up a bit, so just rip that out and re-place it. Getting the two ends to meet is a little tricky, but far from insurmountable.



And then, in a very satisfying feat of engineering, was able to just glue the other face on. It pretty much fit perfectly.



After that, it was just going along the hard edge with the hobby knife and rounding it off to a nice beveled joint

Moreover, it's totally the right size. Here it is in the fork of one of the bikes.



As you can see, it's a little wobbly still. Not exactly a perfect circle, which is a little unfortunate. I really made a bit of an effort to get the circle just right with the outer edges of these, and to take two pieces of plasticard and kind of "match" them to each other, using the knife to kind of file them into a set. Also, the core of the wheel isn't quite centered, which is kind of bad.

What I'm hoping for is that once there is a bunch of detail thrown on here, and they're painted black, it will be hard to notice these imperfections.

Starting tomorrow, I'm going to finish the rest of my 5-wheel batch up to this level, and then get started on the traction. This is throwing my brain into dizziness, just trying to think of how I'm going to do this. I need some way of holding onto a circle while doing detail work on it. Perhaps I'll do one face and then the other, and then the center, or perhaps I'll do all three parts of a 1/3rd slice of the wheel at a time. I don't know, this all feels tricky.

I'm certainly starting to get a feel for how big meks feel...

So, crazy idea, but could you just glue the bike chassis in around it so that the body of the bike holds the wheel for you? That way you can grip the bike, and not the wheel, and work on it. That, or just stick some sort of tube through the wheel to hold it in place, and work on it from there.

As for the biker thing, take your trukk and make a battlewagon with it. I'm sure you've got some hideously deformed vehicle hiding somewhere. Take that, and use the trukk bitz to add onto it to get it up to size for a battlewagon. Take some plasticard to add the armor upfront and make a deff rolla, and you should be set. Battlewagons really are great at their job, and it doesn't hurt to include one with bikes. I'd actually look at throwing MANZ in, as that's a cheap unit that can even take the wagon as a dedicated transport (if you ever found yourself running low on heavy slots) That, or a unit of lootas/burnas, or a 20 strong slugga boy mob as something to scare your opponent with once they get across the board.

Bikes work well even in smaller squads, but I'd keep mine at at least 7 bare minimum counting the nob. 10 seems a bit overkill though. By making the squads slightly smaller, you can take more units of them, which is handy in itself. Plus, it gets you more klaws and flexibility, which are some of your most important weapons. You NEED those klaws to crack tanks or throw enemy infantry off objectives.

Also, have you thought of deffkoptas Ailaros? Some of the ork players have started using them to outflank a bikerboss and looks like a hilariously orky thing to do.

I actually figured out a way of doing it tonight. If I start with the treads, and then do the two sides, I can do the whole thing without mushing fingers into something.

I agree about the battlewagon thing. The trukk has given me a very convenient number of wheels and random vehicle bitz to make a battlewagon or two out of them. For now I've just got to focus on my bikes.

Speaking of, you think it would look better like this?

Wazdakka
Warboss, bike, cybork, combi-skorcha, klaw, attack squig

6x nob bikers, painboy, 3x klaws, 2x big choppas,
2x kombi-skorchas, bosspole, waaugh banner, cybork bodies

8x warbikers, Nob with klaw, bosspole
8x warbikers, Nob with klaw, bosspole
8x warbikers, Nob with klaw, bosspole

1500 points

As for deffkoptaz, I'm not aversed to them. Don't know if I'd use it to outflank a boss, though, myself. I'd probably want to start with an all-bike list just so that I can get a feel for it before I know what kind of support options are going to work best for me. I'm also taking a keen interest in rokkit buggies.

In any case, once I get 30 bikes or so built, I will probably not need any more bikes for awhile. It would be sort of like once you get your 6 PISs, 2 PCSs and a CCS done for foot guard. It's not that you're never going to need more platoon-based infantry, but it's going to provide for a big enough core that you can just sort of focus on support options after that.

Although the purity of that list appeals to me, I really recommend getting some long range dakka.

Drop a Warbike Squad(240) for:

2x8 Lootas (240)

You can make them out of boys and spare big guns.

Well blow me down!!! Suddenly seeing your face in everything Ork (and shooting me a PM on Ork skin) makes a whole lot of sense. Very very cool Ill enjoy your blog mainly because I think you want to convert/scratchbuild as much as I do.

First, you need to add more K's when spelling things.

Klans - really isnt super important. If you read the fluff in the dex, youll realize that no matter how you build your army, youll not only fit into one of the main Klans, but that it also doesnt really matter in the end either. So you can make your own colors. And if you do that, who says you cant add "small" amounts of Klan colors in there? If you want BadMoonz, which is what I play, you dont have to paint entire vehicles and whole mobz yellow. I love BadMoonz color schemes, but I cant stand that much yellow. So I tend to paint my vehicles however I want, and then paint a few panels or whatever nice bright yellow, that way its not over powering, yet still clearly shows "Ahh, yellow, he plays BadMoonz"


And go crazy on a Biker List! Hell, add some koptas in the mix if you want, they mate with Bikes rather nicely, specially when running them with BigShootas instead of rokkits, though Rokkits still make sense on them. As far the lonely trukk, this is what you need for a MANz missile, and those are pretty damn deadly. Stick a couple 4 or 5 MANz in one, hold in reserve or behind a building till turn 3 and let it loose on the table. Trukks are indeed fragile little creatures, but the nice thing is, is when your enemy is bogged down from a gak load of boyz in assault or whittled down to nothing thanks to mass shooting, the SPEED of a trukk can get the MANz into where they are needed, in short time. After that, use that cheap pile-o-junk to block LOS or ram the gak out of a unit. Once your MANz are on foot, then send the trukk towards some unit and prey for a good Ramshackle result, then laugh as only Orks tend to laugh at such things.

Definitely subbed. Ive been thinking about making a Tutorial on how I paint Ork Skin, you might of just been the push I needed Because I too prefer nice, bright and gawdy looking Orks. Dingy and dark can stay with the DA and Chaos


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pretre wrote:
Although the purity of that list appeals to me, I really recommend getting some long range dakka.

Drop a Warbike Squad(240) for:

2x8 Lootas (240)

You can make them out of boys and spare big guns.

Save the Bigshootas, they are very useful on damn near everything. Just use some sluggas, plastic tubing and some imagination and you can make some pretty impressive "deffguns" Though Im not sure about dumping a whole unit of bikers, if hes wanting bikes, I will agree, that Lootas are pretty much always a good idea, and seem to always be worth taking. I love my Lootas

KingCracker wrote:Well blow me down!!! Suddenly seeing your face in everything Ork (and shooting me a PM on Ork skin) makes a whole lot of sense.

Yes, I bet this looked a bit suspicious. I think I finally have enough stuff in this blog to advertize it a bit.

KingCracker wrote:First, you need to add more K's when spelling things.

I know, I'm still pretty bad at ork. At first, you think it's just dropping consonants and being zany, but the orkish language is terrifyingly subtle once you get into it a bit.

I downloaded an e-book from the language section of my local library, and I'm still trying to get my head around how orks decline their nouns. The 42-page chapter on participles seems like its going to keep me up for more than a few nights...

KingCracker wrote:I love BadMoonz color schemes, but I cant stand that much yellow. So I tend to paint my vehicles however I want, and then paint a few panels or whatever nice bright yellow, that way its not over powering, yet still clearly shows "Ahh, yellow, he plays BadMoonz"

Yeah, I've been thinking about this as well. Like brown bikes with yellow flames to send a nice overtone of evil sunz, or something. Haven't quite figured it out, though. From a brief skim of the codex at my FLGS, there didn't seem to be a lot about painting orks or their color schemes in the book itself, and GW's website isn't very helpful being basically nothing but goffs. Not nearly gaudy enough.

pretre wrote:Drop a Warbike Squad(240) for:

2x8 Lootas (240)

Once again, though, I don't see why they're necessary. The all-bike list is all big shootas all the time. Plus ultrafast power klaws. The only thing I can see this list struggling with (that lootaz would fix) is AV12 fliers. Even then, though, lootaz aren't great against AV12 fliers. I honestly think I'd rather have tankbustaz for this role, and, once again, I don't really see them as being all that necessary.

Plus, having a gunline element in an all-bike list seems as untactical as it is unfluffy. The only things I'd seriously consider dropping bikes for are deffkoptaz, a battlewagon with something in it, buggies, or, begrudgingly, a dakkajet or two.

Anyways, on to the modelling!

With my wheels all done up, it was time to put the tires on. I wraked my brain to figure out how to do this in such a way where I never put my fingers into uncured greenstuff. The way I finally figured it out was to start with the treads and then add the sides.

So I started with the treads. This was a simple matter of rolling out a thin snake of GS, gluing it to the face of the wheel, and then smushing it down to cover everything. To add a nice, smooth texture, I put a bit of thick steel wire through the axle lug and literally rolled the wheel back and forth.

Then it was just a matter of putting some patterns into the GS. I decided to go for five different ones just to get a feel for how easy different things were going to be to do. Who knows where they got all these crazy tires from?



Once this was cured, I cut it down so that the pattern was only on the outside facing. Extra GS that had blobbed over the sides was removed to give a consistent surface for the sides to stick to.

The sides took a little bit of trial and error, but I was able to come up with a method by the end. To start with, I glued down a thin snake of GS around the outer part of the side facing. I then smushed it down so that the GS connected to the tread. Then, still using wetted finger, I smushed it down towards the hub. More fingerwork got the GS into roughly the right shape.

I then went in and, in a rare time of using a tool other than my exacto-knife, I used the rounded back of a paintbrush to give the GS a nice taper into the hub. The knife tapered the part where it met the tread to the correct angle.

I also smushed the wheel face into my desk a couple of times to make sure that the side had a flat line to it when you looked at it by looking straight at the tread. In the end, it was mostly a matter of intuition, a careful eye, and a bunch of experimentation.

Once the side wall was done properly, it was just a matter of continuing the tread pattern, as appropriate.



And then, once that was cured, doing the same thing to the other side.

Once this was done, it was simply a matter of detail. The plastic wheels that I got mostly have bits of metal riveted on, but I found out that, with said bitz, the width of the tire was spot on, but the diameter was too big. I must have blobbed too much GS on the wheels, because they wound up being a bit bigger in diameter without any metal bitz on than the regular wheels with the metal bitz. I guess I'll just have to know for next time to make the plasticard part smaller.

Given this, I decided to keep the amount of details on the tread face itself to a relative minimum, so as not to exacerbate the problem. Metal bitz were a simple matter of throwing down some GS blobs, smashing them thin, and then cutting them into jagged shapes after they had dried.

Then rivets were LIBERALLY applied to everything.



Of course, I couldn't retire for the night without trying at least one out. I cleaned off a few mould lines off of one of my bike blanks, selected my "Studmaster 9000" tire, and glued the whole thing up.



With part of a rider tacked in there for scale.

Needless to say, this is going to be bitchin' awesome.

Now to do it 7 more times to round out the squad...

Firstly, the Ork dex is like the SM dex, its pretty much about Ultra Marines....and the Ultras in Ork land are the Goffs


And secondly, those tires are fething epic! You should get those casted

Great progress on the bikes! I'm glad you made such different styles of tires (including the studmaster 9000 ), suitably orky in my book

 Ailaros wrote:

Then rivets were LIBERALLY applied to everything.

Like music to my ears

Keep up the great work!
Rawson

@Ailaros: Lootas are good for things that are flying (BS1 is not far off from BS2) and popping transports so you can get at the juicy center.

Personally, I run Deffskullz (blue paint scheme) with my bikers and have lootas in the mix there. Very fluffy and colorful.

I have visions of a mad ork warboss riding a massive attak bike pulling a trailer full of grotz! hell you could even nail a few grots onto the cassis for extra armour lol.

When I played fantasy many years ago I used to do a whie basecoat then a 2 to 1 waterd down coat of badmoon yellow. I would then do a once over in black ork wash. for the next bit i would water down a mix of ork flesh and nightshade and sunburst yellow (3 pars green to one part nightshade and one part yellow) I would water it down to the point where it was almost an ink then apply the base coat.... this still left the little yellow showing through from the basecoat and gave a nice deep green from black ork wash (it may have been called ork flesh wash back then) the home made wash coats i then progressivly made lighter by adding more yellow then for the final coat i would drybrush with a very watery yellow... i know water yellow and brybrush contradict but once you removed from the brush it was more like a suggestion of a yellow highlight than a dry brush.

also by doing it this way its grea for bulk painting as the waterd down paitns go a long way and if you use a wet pallet then they will last up to a week!!

I sadly don't have any images but I will see if my mate has a spare Ork I can have a try at and I will post a pic.


With regards to the clans one thing I would say is this.... Orks are the most numerous race in the universe right?? they just spring up out of nowhere right?? Who's to say some long lost mob from the days of the old ones havent just been waging their own personal war for the last 100000 years? they finally ran out of stuff to krump in their sector and their madmek devised a contraption to hur, them through the warp. they rrive in know space and see all these juicy races ripe for a good kicking.

I would say make your own clan, you have a tallent for the story telling and I personally perfer to hear about the savage, Ed Stompaz, or Teef smashers or "insert generic ork name here" than the goffs ect....

the possibilities with orks, as you have rightly stated are endless.

I am reather excited to see what you come up with..

Or simply put, BadMoonz are da bestest! An we got da teef ta buy whut we'z be need'n! An if ya dun sell it ta uz? Den we Krump Ya! An tak it 'n 'E wayz

Ailoros going orky? Oh, now this is going to be interesting. Great work on those tyres, different styles was definitely the way to go. And the suggestion to get them cast is a good one, us meks love to have an assortment of wheels.

I can just see a tide of brown leather and dirty white armour coming over the hill.