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I think we can sum this up by saying that the French people are very concerned about Islamic integration issues, but while FN are the most vocal in highlighting the problem, and can be relied upon not to sweep the issue under the carpet, people don't want them to be left in charge of finding answers.

 LordofHats wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Spoiler:

Wait, Jules Verne is French? *looks it up* Holy crap all these years I thought he was British

No joke, my friend who is an English major literally thought Jules Verne was an English writer

Well at least it's not just me XD Makes me feel less silly

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Fascist...that word is thrown around so much these days it's losing all meaning. And so many who are quick to use it are also quick to physically attack the people who they don't agree with. How ironic.

Political violence has never been exclusive to fascism. I mean, even anarchism has done so. And anarchism is basically the polar opposite of fascism. Or do you consider anarchism to be the same as fascism ^^?
Anyway I'm pretty glad that some people are unwilling to stay silent and inactive when others preach genocide…

Hey, at least the French can be proud of one thing. The French president has a better grasp of English than the American one.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Spoiler:

Wait, Jules Verne is French? *looks it up* Holy crap all these years I thought he was British

No joke, my friend who is an English major literally thought Jules Verne was an English writer

Wait whaaaaat? That name sounds like 100% totally French! I'm not even sure how English people pronounce it .
For me he is pretty emblematic of France ^^.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I mean, even anarchism has done so.

The earliest models of anarchy were completely predicated on violence to boot! The whole reason Guy Fawkes is a symbol of anarchy in the first place is because of how he planned to overthrow the government, not what he planned to replace it with.


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 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:


Wait whaaaaat? That name sounds like 100% totally French! I'm not even sure how English people pronounce it .
For me he is pretty emblematic of France ^^.

I just assumed it was a hold over or something from when the Normans invaded XD You know like like all those words my bastard of a mother tongue got along with a new king!

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Spoiler:

Wait, Jules Verne is French? *looks it up* Holy crap all these years I thought he was British

No joke, my friend who is an English major literally thought Jules Verne was an English writer

Wait whaaaaat? That name sounds like 100% totally French! I'm not even sure how English people pronounce it .
For me he is pretty emblematic of France ^^.

I don't know if we all pronounce it the same, but in the Netherlands it sounds like Julez Vern-e. I can imagine it sounds similar in English?

In English its just pronounced "vern" (like "fern" or "burn" but with the "v") with the e at the end silent. Least that's how I've always heard it.

I just hope now that France can overcome all the problems facing it. I don't think Macron is the right person for the job, but he was voted in so that must be respected.

 LordofHats wrote:
In English its just pronounced "vern" (like "fern" or "burn" but with the "v") with the e at the end silent. Least that's how I've always heard it.

Yeah this is close to how Dutch people pronounce it, the E is mostly (some say it but it doesn't sound right) silent for us too.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Terms like "racist" and "fascist" are thrown around so casually and carelessly on this forum that they've lost all meaning and significance. And note I don't mean regarding Le Penn. Maybe she is racist and fascists I don't know, i m not familiar enough with her policies. I mean people on this forum use it against each other.

Seriously, the easiest way to get away with breaking rule #1 is to simply call people a racist.

Or a bigot.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
I don't know if we all pronounce it the same, but in the Netherlands it sounds like Julez Vern-e. I can imagine it sounds similar in English?

Both the e and the s are silent in French.



Also this is… hilariously wrong ^^ :

It sounds like he's saying "Jules Won" with a German accent XD

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
I don't know if we all pronounce it the same, but in the Netherlands it sounds like Julez Vern-e. I can imagine it sounds similar in English?

Both the e and the s are silent in French.

Technically we know the S should be silent because we all get French class in school, but damn logic and start zzzzzzing.

As an Englishman I pronounce it like jewels v-urn. (As in burn).

I pronounce the s in Jules, but the e in verne is silent.

 LordofHats wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:


No!!!! You forgot the beret, the baguette, the bicycle and at least one string of onions.

Damn it. There I go fething up the memes again

I assume you get the important ones right though.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

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 Orlanth wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

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 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

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If we're done with discussion I can lock this up now. Your call

Eh the election is already over so not much other than bitterness and some people partying i guess. Probably just gonna lead to a bad place since the results are out.



Dude let me sum this up for you for a second. I have a roommate downstairs that i entered into a roommate agreement with without getting to know him well in part because of my half sister. He talks casually about hating jews or insulting them. He sometimes wears a nazi uniform around the house or in the yard as well as wearing the german cross around his neck. We all have aspbergers but his seems very severe. He's a moron and an awful person even with the nazi stuff not mentioned. Anything Le pen could say in comparison to him is like comparing dennis the menace to the anti-christ. The dude just some days ago was sharpening knives that i think he fashioned himself. Seriously is much like those skinny white kids that goes crazy and shoots up a public place. Le pen's mildly insensitive comments are nothing as compared to that.

I don't casually throw around words like racist but he is one and has admitted to being one.

Delete this message.

 Galas wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

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Thank you both for demonstrating that frenchmen look better . We have magnificent beards!

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Dude let me sum this up for you for a second. I have a roommate downstairs that i entered into a roommate agreement with without getting to know him well in part because of my half sister. He talks casually about hating jews or insulting them. He sometimes wears a nazi uniform around the house or in the yard as well as wearing the german cross around his neck. We all have aspbergers but his seems very severe. He's a moron and an awful person even with the nazi stuff not mentioned. Anything Le pen could say in comparison to him is like comparing dennis the menace to the anti-christ. The dude just some days ago was sharpening knives that i think he fashioned himself. Seriously is much like those skinny white kids that goes crazy and shoots up a public place. Le pen's mildly insensitive comments are nothing as compared to that.

I don't casually throw around words like racist but he is one and has admitted to being one.

Well, you'll make of this what you want, but these kind of guys, in France, vote for the Front National.

Well that is sad but sometimes the most extreme people of a group vote for the most extreme political party that will get elected. I find it disgusting people like that exist but unless they hurt somebody they are sadly completely in their right to live as they please. As said before you don't have to associate with those people and you are most certainly allowed to hate them. I hate that roommate and i don't wish to be around him much less be associated with him. As i write this he's going around the house with a creepy clown face mask a person should only really wear during halloween.

I'm not entirely sure how far right the french go but i imagine the usa is much farther right in most cases than france which makes me think they might not even register as far right as conservatives by our metrics.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Eh the election is already over so not much other than bitterness and some people partying i guess. Probably just gonna lead to a bad place since the results are out.

Spoiler:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Despite my disappointment in the result it is what it is, and I wish the people of France all the best for the future.

Is it me or are the left just really sore winners and losers? Seriously win and lose with some grace like this guy please. Also it's not like we said the whole left was stupid which is what you're doing to the right wing. Sheesh. Gotta say if nothing else it's the condescending attitude of the left that really makes me want them to lose and even when they do they don't realize the error of their arrogance.
Anyway it's france's choice. Hopefully at least people can stop complaining about the supposed shift towards the political right now.

So we aren't allowed to celebrate France keeping a fascist and racist out of office? You're attitude about 'attitude of the left that really makes me want them to lose' is really bizarre. You would have rather have Le Pen win to teach the left a lesson. I'm assuming you didn't read up on her background and platform?

Not so much but i'm sure you'd be willing to share it.

Even a mod in this thread called a political party's voters idiots. Course it was the same mod that called a woman a misogynist once before she revealed herself as a woman if i recall correctly.

Provide some decent examples of her being fascist and racist. I need to be convinced more.

In some sense yes maybe you guys should learn to respect voters of all parties not just your own. Realize even if the candidate is bad perhaps there are stances they have that resound with a lot of people like getting people back to work. I mean if you hate a candidate fine but insulting all the people that want to vote for a person isn't a good way to convince them the candidate is bad. You're just shaming people rather than giving them good reasons not to vote for their candidate. If a candidate doesn't really solve some issues in any sort of decent way or worse not resolving the issue at all then they can expect their stance to become entirely irrelevant.

Here are some policies. Especially the ethnic French first one is egregious: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38321401

The problem is that I personally don't want to respect those that are racist or identify with racist parties. The candidate being a populist with pie in the sky dreams doesn't seem to deter her voters as they don't want to see the truth that her program is economically impossible. Her voters and those of Trump went into full denial instead of trying to reason why they voted for their policies. Which basically boiled down to "I will get your jobs back cuz magic."

The party she has led has proven itself time and again to be full of fascists and racists who only get fired once the uncomfortable truth comes out. You mean to tell me the party doesn't run more thorough background checks on its leaders than the media? Maybe I expected too much from a party founded by collaborators and ex SSers.

Copying from earlier in the thread:
Calling her a racist, its not really hard to prove.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-22739736

The French authorities opened a case against Mrs Le Pen in 2011 after she likened the sight of Muslims praying in the streets to the Nazi occupation of France.

Of course we can go into denial about the French role in the Holocaust.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/09/marine-le-pen-denies-french-role-wartime-roundup-paris-jews

The French far-right presidential candidate Marine Le Pen has denied that the French state was responsible for the wartime roundup of Jews at a Paris cycling track who were then sent to Nazi death camps.

The former president Jacques Chirac and the current leader, François Hollande, have both apologised for the role French police played in the corralling of more than 13,000 Jews at the Vel d’Hiv cycling track, which was ordered by Nazi officers in 1942. But Le Pen told the LCI television channel on Sunday: “I don’t think France is responsible for the Vel d’Hiv.”

I honestly can't be bothered to go over French media reporting on the horrible things she says, because I can't be bothered wasting more of my time on something so obvious.

Dude let me sum this up for you for a second. I have a roommate downstairs that i entered into a roommate agreement with without getting to know him well in part because of my half sister. He talks casually about hating jews or insulting them. He sometimes wears a nazi uniform around the house or in the yard as well as wearing the german cross around his neck. We all have aspbergers but his seems very severe. He's a moron and an awful person even with the nazi stuff not mentioned. Anything Le pen could say in comparison to him is like comparing dennis the menace to the anti-christ. The dude just some days ago was sharpening knives that i think he fashioned himself. Seriously is much like those skinny white kids that goes crazy and shoots up a public place. Le pen's mildly insensitive comments are nothing as compared to that.

I don't casually throw around words like racist but he is one and has admitted to being one.

Just because Hitler exists doesn't mean that other people can't be racist or fascist. Le Pen is still a horrible person who has said things that are completely unacceptable. Her party is full of closet Nazis, facists and anti semites that she must know about, seeing as those are the same people who founded it. Its completely disingenuous to state that because you can find a really bad person, others can't be bad. Comparing Muslims to Nazis is in no way mild, do you know what the Nazis did? You compare peaceful Muslims praying to genocidal maniacs goosestepping down the Champs-Élysées? Thats what Le Pen did.

Her statements are definitely racist, dude.

I'll admit that statement was an out of touch and idiotic statement. Politicians are full of those types of statements though.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I'll admit that statement was an out of touch and idiotic statement. Politicians are full of those types of statements though.

The normal ones aren't though, only the racists like Trump, Le Pen, Wilders and the AfD. To say that this is normal for politicians is disingenuous.

So Macron's winning margin looks to be north of 30%. That's actually a significant polling miss, about 6 points give or take, depending on how you aggregate polls. It's much bigger than the miss in Brexit, and much, much bigger than the US presidential election. It's actually a bigger miss than you see on average in French presidential elections (about 3.5 to 4% since the late 1960s). Despite this, you'll now see a lot of nonsense talking about how French pollsters got everything right.

This mistake comes from two things. The first is that this was not a hard race to call, and the eventual polling miss didn't matter. Whether Macron got bang on 25%, or was 5% less at 20% or 5% more at 30%, all people really see is a landslide like the polls predicted.

The second part is that the polling error went in favour of the winning candidate. For whatever reason, when a candidate wins by even more than was predicted, people tend to ignore the polling miss. All they hear is 'they said X would win and he did'. This was quite a thing in 2012, where polling aggregates missed Obama's win by 3 to 4 points, but everyone hailed the polls as amazingly accurate because they said Obama would be comfortably returned to office and he was.

End of the day, the sensible way to look at polls will be to understand they regularly miss by 1 to 3 points, and sometimes miss by 4-5, and occasionally miss by 6-8 (with the last miss being extremely rare when there's extensive polling). Just sometimes you will get a miss bigger than that, but it's incredibly rare and normally is at least partially due to major issues with polling, some really odd events in the electorate, or some combination of the two. But this is not how people look at or understand polls at all. What they see is 'they got it right/wrong last time, therefore they are good/bad at predicting, so they will be right/wrong this time'. But it really, really doesn't work like that.

 Humble Guardsman wrote:
Just so I understand this correctly, you are asserting that the lack of a modern, liberal democracy is the cause for the more brutal features of the Islamic faith being featured and that the faith itself is not a contributing factor, or at least no more so than any other religion.

Clearly that is not the case, France and many unfortunate others would not have been experiencing the similar acts of violence from members of their own Muslim population if it was merely a matter of how modern or liberal any particular society is.

You are assuming there is a total disconnect between the populations, that issues in Saudi, Iranian or whatever ME society have no impact on ex-pat communities. This argument makes little to no sense. For instance, ex-pat and Irish heritage groups in the US funded much of the IRA's activities. By your argument we would have to believe that the decision by people in the US to send that money to the IRA is independent of the political troubles in Ireland at the time, which is obviously a very silly thing to believe.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Well that is sad but sometimes the most extreme people of a group vote for the most extreme political party that will get elected. I find it disgusting people like that exist but unless they hurt somebody they are sadly completely in their right to live as they please. As said before you don't have to associate with those people and you are most certainly allowed to hate them. I hate that roommate and i don't wish to be around him much less be associated with him. As i write this he's going around the house with a creepy clown face mask a person should only really wear during halloween.

I'm not entirely sure how far right the french go but i imagine the usa is much farther right in most cases than france which makes me think they might not even register as far right as conservatives by our metrics.

I'm not gonna be sarcastic here. I think you should move. I'm worried by your integrity with that roommate.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I'll admit that statement was an out of touch and idiotic statement. Politicians are full of those types of statements though.

The normal ones aren't though, only the racists like Trump, Le Pen, Wilders and the AfD. To say that this is normal for politicians is disingenuous.

Yeah but i feel every politician has made an out of touch statement at least once. I will admit i stayed out of the election this year because i didn't like the choices.

@Galas: Thank you for your concern and i honestly wish to move. The only thing preventing me is how much money i make and the fact i haven't found a roommate i'd wish to be around yet and just a hard time finding roommates in general. Honestly there's a guy i know at work that'd be a perfect roommate (nice guy and a genuine type of person) however he doesn't wish to live on his own yet.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I'll admit that statement was an out of touch and idiotic statement. Politicians are full of those types of statements though.

The normal ones aren't though, only the racists like Trump, Le Pen, Wilders and the AfD. To say that this is normal for politicians is disingenuous.

Maybe. And maybe plenty of U.S. politicians just generally suck.