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Well done France, a sound decision and avoiding the idiocy that's gripping US and UK governments at the moment.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
EU offices can relax.

They're happy, they got their puppet.

As opposed to a career politician who left her family-built party, the one she spent years rebuilding, after making the runoff because it was too toxic a brand for a general election, and who's economic policies would, by just about every independent evaluation, be disastrous?

Like...really? That's the rhetoric we're going to go with?

A party that was supported by and partially funded by Russia. A party that was established by collaborators and ex SSers. Rich pedigree.

You don't understand it. ALL GOES in the race for destroying the EU! You only need to say "Screw you EU!" to gain support, nothing more about your political past, present or future matters.
Hopefully with this, maybe the EU can have a little change in mentality and began the reform that it really needs. As I said, I'm in the "Reform it" more than the "Destroy it!".

A lot of the EU's problems honestly seem to me like they could be resolved with structural changes that give voters in member countries a bit more agency in the choices being made. I'm not really up to speed completely on how the EU is internally arranged, but the problem seems to come from how insulated the ruling body of the Union is from the electorate.

 LordofHats wrote:
A lot of the EU's problems honestly seem to me like they could be resolved with structural changes that give voters in member countries a bit more agency in the choices being made. I'm not really up to speed completely on how the EU is internally arranged, but the problem seems to come from how insulated the ruling body of the Union is from the electorate.

One huge part of the problem is that people are fething lazy and won't vote in EU elections.

@ Galas

The EU won't change. They aren't interested in introspection. And if you think France is going to allow reform of the CAP or to stop that pointless moving to Strasbourg then think again.

Congratulations Monsieur Macron.
Rule of thumb, if it pisses off Nigel Farage, it's probably the right thing to do. Well done France.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ Galas

The EU won't change. They aren't interested in introspection. And if you think France is going to allow reform of the CAP or to stop that pointless moving to Strasbourg then think again.

Oh, I think you are probably correct. But what can I say? All my money is in Euros and I live in one of the PIGS of the EU, so...

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
A lot of the EU's problems honestly seem to me like they could be resolved with structural changes that give voters in member countries a bit more agency in the choices being made. I'm not really up to speed completely on how the EU is internally arranged, but the problem seems to come from how insulated the ruling body of the Union is from the electorate.

One huge part of the problem is that people are fething lazy and won't vote in EU elections.

They aren't exactly isolated like AlmightyWalrus mentioned. Its mainly down to lazy voters. Turnout is abysmal while all the organs of the EU are either directly or indirectly chosen by the voters or their respective national governments. Its only insulated because people don't care and start complaining its undemocratic.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ Galas

The EU won't change. They aren't interested in introspection. And if you think France is going to allow reform of the CAP or to stop that pointless moving to Strasbourg then think again.

They even get upset when not ernough important votes are held at there parliment.
France would sooner convert there language to English, fly thr union jacknover Paris and return under ainciant claims of queen of England and France than give up thr CAP money!

 Galas wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ Galas

The EU won't change. They aren't interested in introspection. And if you think France is going to allow reform of the CAP or to stop that pointless moving to Strasbourg then think again.

Oh, I think you are probably correct. But what can I say? All my money is in Euros and I live in one of the PIGS of the EU, so...

You have my sympathies. There's a prime example. You have zero control over your own currency. You can't elect representatives to change it because it's controlled by unaccountable appointees. And it won't ever be reformed because at present it suits one certain member very well by keeping their currency artificially low. Good for exports. I'm all right jack, the rest of you.

@ jhe90

You have to give it to them. France knew how to make it work for them in places.

Spain has as much control in electing their representatives as the rest of us. Just because you don't understand how every part of the EU is elected doesn't mean its unaccountable.

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ Galas

The EU won't change. They aren't interested in introspection. And if you think France is going to allow reform of the CAP or to stop that pointless moving to Strasbourg then think again.

Oh, I think you are probably correct. But what can I say? All my money is in Euros and I live in one of the PIGS of the EU, so...

You have my sympathies. There's a prime example. You have zero control over your own currency. You can't elect representatives to change it because it's controlled by unaccountable appointees. And it won't ever be reformed because at present it suits one certain member very well by keeping their currency artificially low. Good for exports. I'm all right jack, the rest of you.

@ jhe90

You have to give it to them. France knew how to make it work for them in places.

Aye.. Thr French know how to keep there perks.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Spain has as much control in electing their representatives as the rest of us. Just because you don't understand how every part of the EU is elected doesn't mean its unaccountable.

Our representatives vote against Spain interest in the parlament of Europe, so we are screwed one way or the other
Like when they voted in favour to eliminate the tax of oranges imported from Morocco, that protected our national production, when the production of orange is like the 15% of the PIB* of Andalucia


*Number totally inaccurate, but it was needed to make a point

 Galas wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Spain has as much control in electing their representatives as the rest of us. Just because you don't understand how every part of the EU is elected doesn't mean its unaccountable.

Our representatives vote against Spain interest in the parlament of Europe, so we are screwed one way or the other
Like when they voted in favour to eliminate the tax of oranges imported from Morocco, that protected our national production, when the production of orange is like the 15% of the PIB* of Andalucia


*Number totally inaccurate, but it was needed to make a point

Yeah its not like your own representatives or government are that accountable sadly, though that is nothing unique to Spain.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Despite my disappointment in the result it is what it is, and I wish the people of France all the best for the future.

Is it me or are the left just really sore winners and losers? Seriously win and lose with some grace like this guy please. Also it's not like we said the whole left was stupid which is what you're doing to the right wing. Sheesh. Gotta say if nothing else it's the condescending attitude of the left that really makes me want them to lose and even when they do they don't realize the error of their arrogance.

Anyway it's france's choice. Hopefully at least people can stop complaining about the supposed shift towards the political right now.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Despite my disappointment in the result it is what it is, and I wish the people of France all the best for the future.

Is it me or are the left just really sore winners and losers? Seriously win and lose with some grace like this guy please. Also it's not like we said the whole left was stupid which is what you're doing to the right wing. Sheesh. Gotta say if nothing else it's the condescending attitude of the left that really makes me want them to lose and even when they do they don't realize the error of their arrogance.

You and I remember June and November of 2016 very differently.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Despite my disappointment in the result it is what it is, and I wish the people of France all the best for the future.

Is it me or are the left just really sore winners and losers? Seriously win and lose with some grace like this guy please. Also it's not like we said the whole left was stupid which is what you're doing to the right wing. Sheesh. Gotta say if nothing else it's the condescending attitude of the left that really makes me want them to lose and even when they do they don't realize the error of their arrogance.

Ta very much.

 LordofHats wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Despite my disappointment in the result it is what it is, and I wish the people of France all the best for the future.

Is it me or are the left just really sore winners and losers? Seriously win and lose with some grace like this guy please. Also it's not like we said the whole left was stupid which is what you're doing to the right wing. Sheesh. Gotta say if nothing else it's the condescending attitude of the left that really makes me want them to lose and even when they do they don't realize the error of their arrogance.

You and I remember June and November of 2016 very differently.

Yeah hundreds of thousands of protestors many of which were breaking crap all over much of the western usa. Yeah you guys are can lose with some dignity for sure *rolls eyes*. Not saying Trump was good either but sheesh i never saw protests during the obama elections.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Despite my disappointment in the result it is what it is, and I wish the people of France all the best for the future.

Is it me or are the left just really sore winners and losers? Seriously win and lose with some grace like this guy please. Also it's not like we said the whole left was stupid which is what you're doing to the right wing. Sheesh. Gotta say if nothing else it's the condescending attitude of the left that really makes me want them to lose and even when they do they don't realize the error of their arrogance.

Anyway it's france's choice. Hopefully at least people can stop complaining about the supposed shift towards the political right now.

So we aren't allowed to celebrate France keeping a fascist and racist out of office? You're attitude about 'attitude of the left that really makes me want them to lose' is really bizarre. You would have rather have Le Pen win to teach the left a lesson. I'm assuming you didn't read up on her background and platform?

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Yeah hundreds of thousands of protestors many of which were breaking crap all over much of the western usa. Yeah you guys are can lose with some dignity for sure *rolls eyes*. Not saying Trump was good either but sheesh i never saw protests during the obama elections.

I'm talking about what was being said here on the forums, but who am I to stop you from rage posting about a derailing topic?

 LordofHats wrote:

Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
God, now we have to look at France as the one sane nation. I'm not sure we can survive this.

They are going to lord it over you so hard.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Ahah my smug sense of superiority toward the USA is once again vindicated! Take that Trumpites .

It has begun...

Damnit where's the violin orkmoticon when I need it XD

They can crow all they like about getting one over the US and UK. When all is said and done they are still, well .... only French.

Fascist...that word is thrown around so much these days it's losing all meaning. And so many who are quick to use it are also quick to physically attack the people who they don't agree with. How ironic.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Despite my disappointment in the result it is what it is, and I wish the people of France all the best for the future.

Is it me or are the left just really sore winners and losers? Seriously win and lose with some grace like this guy please. Also it's not like we said the whole left was stupid which is what you're doing to the right wing. Sheesh. Gotta say if nothing else it's the condescending attitude of the left that really makes me want them to lose and even when they do they don't realize the error of their arrogance.

Anyway it's france's choice. Hopefully at least people can stop complaining about the supposed shift towards the political right now.

So we aren't allowed to celebrate France keeping a fascist and racist out of office? You're attitude about 'attitude of the left that really makes me want them to lose' is really bizarre. You would have rather have Le Pen win to teach the left a lesson. I'm assuming you didn't read up on her background and platform?

Not so much but i'm sure you'd be willing to share it.

Even a mod in this thread called a political party's voters idiots. Course it was the same mod that called a woman a misogynist once before she revealed herself as a woman if i recall correctly.

Provide some decent examples of her being fascist and racist. I need to be convinced more.

In some sense yes maybe you guys should learn to respect voters of all parties not just your own. Realize even if the candidate is bad perhaps there are stances they have that resound with a lot of people like getting people back to work. I mean if you hate a candidate fine but insulting all the people that want to vote for a person isn't a good way to convince them the candidate is bad. You're just shaming people rather than giving them good reasons not to vote for their candidate. If a candidate doesn't really solve some issues in any sort of decent way or worse not resolving the issue at all then they can expect their stance to become entirely irrelevant.

 Orlanth wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:

Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
God, now we have to look at France as the one sane nation. I'm not sure we can survive this.

They are going to lord it over you so hard.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Ahah my smug sense of superiority toward the USA is once again vindicated! Take that Trumpites .

It has begun...

Damnit where's the violin orkmoticon when I need it XD

They can crow all they like about getting one over the US and UK. When all is said and done they are still, well .... only French.

Is it weird that this seems to demand to be attached to an image of a very stereotypical french person (black and white shirt with, curly mustache, and one of those cigerette extender thingies), with a french flag and the Arc de Triomphe in the background with the caption reading "when all is said and done, they are still only french." EDIT: maybe go a little Nietzsche with "French, all too French"?

Weird yes/no XD

 LordofHats wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Yeah hundreds of thousands of protestors many of which were breaking crap all over much of the western usa. Yeah you guys are can lose with some dignity for sure *rolls eyes*. Not saying Trump was good either but sheesh i never saw protests during the obama elections.

I'm talking about what was being said here on the forums, but who am I to stop you from rage posting about a derailing topic?

Not really rage posting as it's france's decision. I tend to be low on rage and wish to keep it that way which is why i stay out of off-topic.

 LordofHats wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:

Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
God, now we have to look at France as the one sane nation. I'm not sure we can survive this.

They are going to lord it over you so hard.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Ahah my smug sense of superiority toward the USA is once again vindicated! Take that Trumpites .

It has begun...

Damnit where's the violin orkmoticon when I need it XD

They can crow all they like about getting one over the US and UK. When all is said and done they are still, well .... only French.

Is it weird that this seems to demand to be attached to an image of a very stereotypical french person (black and white shirt with, curly mustache, and one of those cigerette extender thingies), with a french flag and the Arc de Triomphe in the background with the caption reading "when all is said and done, they are still only french." EDIT: maybe go a little Nietzsche with "French, all too French"?

Weird yes/no XD

No!!!! You forgot the beret, the baguette, the bicycle and at least one string of onions.

Come on, do it properly.

Terms like "racist" and "fascist" are thrown around so casually and carelessly on this forum that they've lost all meaning and significance. And note I don't mean regarding Le Penn. Maybe she is racist and fascists I don't know, i m not familiar enough with her policies. I mean people on this forum use it against each other.

Seriously, the easiest way to get away with breaking rule #1 is to simply call people a racist.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Despite my disappointment in the result it is what it is, and I wish the people of France all the best for the future.

Is it me or are the left just really sore winners and losers? Seriously win and lose with some grace like this guy please. Also it's not like we said the whole left was stupid which is what you're doing to the right wing. Sheesh. Gotta say if nothing else it's the condescending attitude of the left that really makes me want them to lose and even when they do they don't realize the error of their arrogance.

Anyway it's france's choice. Hopefully at least people can stop complaining about the supposed shift towards the political right now.

So we aren't allowed to celebrate France keeping a fascist and racist out of office? You're attitude about 'attitude of the left that really makes me want them to lose' is really bizarre. You would have rather have Le Pen win to teach the left a lesson. I'm assuming you didn't read up on her background and platform?

Not so much but i'm sure you'd be willing to share it.

Even a mod in this thread called a political party's voters idiots. Course it was the same mod that called a woman a misogynist once before she revealed herself as a woman if i recall correctly.

Provide some decent examples of her being fascist and racist. I need to be convinced more.

In some sense yes maybe you guys should learn to respect voters of all parties not just your own. Realize even if the candidate is bad perhaps there are stances they have that resound with a lot of people like getting people back to work. I mean if you hate a candidate fine but insulting all the people that want to vote for a person isn't a good way to convince them the candidate is bad. You're just shaming people rather than giving them good reasons not to vote for their candidate. If a candidate doesn't really solve some issues in any sort of decent way or worse not resolving the issue at all then they can expect their stance to become entirely irrelevant.

Here are some policies. Especially the ethnic French first one is egregious: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38321401

The problem is that I personally don't want to respect those that are racist or identify with racist parties. The candidate being a populist with pie in the sky dreams doesn't seem to deter her voters as they don't want to see the truth that her program is economically impossible. Her voters and those of Trump went into full denial instead of trying to reason why they voted for their policies. Which basically boiled down to "I will get your jobs back cuz magic."

The party she has led has proven itself time and again to be full of fascists and racists who only get fired once the uncomfortable truth comes out. You mean to tell me the party doesn't run more thorough background checks on its leaders than the media? Maybe I expected too much from a party founded by collaborators and ex SSers.

Copying from earlier in the thread:
Calling her a racist, its not really hard to prove.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-22739736

The French authorities opened a case against Mrs Le Pen in 2011 after she likened the sight of Muslims praying in the streets to the Nazi occupation of France.

Of course we can go into denial about the French role in the Holocaust.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/09/marine-le-pen-denies-french-role-wartime-roundup-paris-jews

The French far-right presidential candidate Marine Le Pen has denied that the French state was responsible for the wartime roundup of Jews at a Paris cycling track who were then sent to Nazi death camps.

The former president Jacques Chirac and the current leader, François Hollande, have both apologised for the role French police played in the corralling of more than 13,000 Jews at the Vel d’Hiv cycling track, which was ordered by Nazi officers in 1942. But Le Pen told the LCI television channel on Sunday: “I don’t think France is responsible for the Vel d’Hiv.”

I honestly can't be bothered to go over French media reporting on the horrible things she says, because I can't be bothered wasting more of my time on something so obvious.

 Orlanth wrote:
When all is said and done they are still, well .... only French.

 Orlanth wrote:


No!!!! You forgot the beret, the baguette, the bicycle and at least one string of onions.

Damn it. There I go fething up the memes again


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Spoiler:

Wait, Jules Verne is French? *looks it up* Holy crap all these years I thought he was British