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2022/06/23 14:56:47
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Ok, final tournamnet with the old rules for me today. Two victories 20:0 and 17:3 and one small loss 0:20, because I ' m a prick. It was nice.
Actualy.. I we skip Tyranids and Eldars, I was second! Not bad at all!
I gonna play Speed Mob with the new rules fro couple of month, becuase I like it and want to give it a try. This is the list I plan to play:
- I need CPs and a lot of units. So I pay for second detach and go Blood Axe.
- I switch to Nob bikers instead of single buggies and for single scrapjet units. I pay already for the extra detach, so let' s criple the enmy fire distribuiton as much and possible and have more flexibility.
- I take just the barebone bloodaxe trait and relic. I don ' t believe now, the Biggest and da Best can work well with biker boss.
I don 't believe on effectivity of the list “make a blob of melee masters and drop them and charge”. Simply because it, s super easy to screen them. Sometimes people play such think with deathiwing terminators or something… the easies matches.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And with 12” range of skorchas you can be pretty much in the position the only awailable target for shooting will be the unit you want charge…
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/28 16:58:30
2022/06/29 14:43:03
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
gungo wrote: Art of war had an interesting idea. They said speed waaagh is back with ghaz and kff big Mek. Providing multiple turns of army wide 5++.
I like the idea of speed waggh freebooter shooty list option with the extra -1ap on durable buggies again.
Unfortunately I’ve been playing with list builds in battle scribe and I can’t get this list to work. The issue mainly stems from lack of fast atk slots, lack of cp, and the fact squigbuggies suck. Plus secondaries mainly suited for infantry. It feels like the list also lacks enough firepower. Maybe if kustom jobs get reduced or become free I can get a varient to work with double detachments and ghaz. Anyone have any luck designing a decent speed waggh list.
This is an intereting idea I playing with too.
What is important to say:
- scrapjets are the only buggies that really works well. The rest is mediocre.
- however - speedwaagh is not just buggies. There are warbikers, koptas, wagons and trukks, big trakk and Kannonwagon too. And jets of course.
- it is all about the scoring and missions.
Do you guys take official GW app as a reliable source of information? There are bugs all the time and mostly not fixed for the long time as I understand.
2022/07/01 11:08:14
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
gungo wrote: I mean they didn’t include them in the points update either… how many times do we brush it off as a mistake? It seems as jidmah said someone taking the effort to manually change kustom job points cost and remove them all is a bit more intentional..
This sounds like the atk out of da sun issue people just would not accept it as working as intended even 6 months after it’s release. After all other books were errata’d, the book was discontinued, tournaments were allowing it RAW and still people argued it’s a mistake.
However I agree and hope this is a preview of a potential faq/errata release that’s due any moment.
Could be…
2022/07/01 16:17:51
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Automatically Appended Next Post: Anyway, non of the kustom jobs seems to be a game changer, so yeah, why do not play them for free for a while, unless anybody explicitly bans it. The note about AOOTS paranoia seems to be legit….
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/07/01 16:20:18
2022/07/01 17:13:09
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Yes, they are fine. Very nice for free and definitely an autotake. But not game breaking.
Anyway, I did a small digging to secondaries.
- In Nephilin, we have very narrow range of secondaries we can take. And not only us as it see… so the each army will profile to that range of secondaries. Man have know the opponents secondaries more.
- There is a mixture of secondaries orks can take:
PURGE THE ENEMY
We have a nice offer of Assasination, Bring it down and Da Biggest and Da Best. Which is a trap little bit, but wait… We' ll definitely take one of these in almost every game.
NO MERCY, NO RESPITE
Bad selection. Grind them down will be hardly our choice. No Prisoners are our only option, but not all of the opponents are the right target for us. Stomp' em good… situational. We cannot rely on this chapter at all.
WARPCRAFT
Abhorn the with can be fine againts some targets, so situational. The two others - Interrogation and Ritual are definitely a think we can play againts anybody.
BATTLEFIELD SUPREMACY
New Engage and Behind enemy lines are hard to score. Almost impossible againts some armies. None the Green Tide. We cannot rely on this chapter imho.
SHADOW OPERATIONS
Bitz are our best choice. We cen definitely rely on them with the right lists. Banners and Data are also not bad, but Bitz rules. We can rely on this chapter.
As I see it:
First secondary = Bitz
Second secondary = anything from PURGE THE ENEMY - either bring it down, assasination or Da Biggest.
Third secondary - ooh mighty third secondary! What if we face the knights? And bet we will! Without the psykers, the best you can do is Engage. That will be rough! And not only knights. There could be a lot of armies giving us a hard time to score the third one.
The only option is to take a psyker (two if possible for redundacy) and do the Ritual or Interrogation. That are the only reliable secondaries we can use as the third one.
So the minimum set of HQ is
- some warboss for Da Biggest - motowarboss or squigosaur boss
- big mek with KFF - psyker. - weirdboy or wurrboy or killrig
Which is maximum Battalion can offer. And we give the opponent 10 VP on Assasination + killing our character = stop us from scoring. That is rough!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/01 17:15:41
2022/07/01 17:26:50
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
gungo wrote: Pretty much!
Also keep track of how many points you give up. To many characters or vehicles is an easy score for your opponent.
I like psychic interrogation for the chance at more CP but it’s a risky secondary that some armies can deny or kill all your psychers.
The biggest and best is nice but also risky as your warlord will get killed… ghaz, squigboss w ard as nails and beastmantle? Durable but either needs to kill or objective sit and that’s alot of points on a key unit to camp objectives.
Yeah exactly! Da biggest has the advetage, that there are two another secondaries in the chapter, you can take.
Interrogation not! If you go this way, you have to do it for sure! And you give up the assasination.
I can imagine some kind of list with tons of small warbiker/stormtrooper units or something sendig forward score Engage every turn and die. That can work.
I 'm thinkig about Speed Mob as obvious. I like it. And looking the way how to make it work. And what I found is, that - as you see from this and previous post - it' s not an issue you give up Bring it down. Becuase any other list give up some another secondary or two too. And if the Kustom Jobs are free, well, even better!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hohoho I take a Wazboom with the Shocka Hull againts this jumpack intruders of flight opperations
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/01 17:30:58
2022/07/01 19:04:36
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Kustom jobs had their points removed in two different official sources, maintained by different teams. Someone at GW went through the trouble to change the points in the app, which means there is intent behind it. The app just confirmed what we were left guessing about in the PDF.
Still might be a mistake, but right now there is no reason to believe so. And I'm absolutely sure that GW will immediately fix any accidental buffs applied to orks
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh my Gork! That will be a mess! Three scrapjets, each of them with the different Kustom job!!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/01 19:34:25
2022/07/01 20:14:17
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
thats weird. I was not under the assumption that there was a debate as to whether or not you could use bomb squigs in transports…
Also never heard about it…
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ok, third argument to accept that Kustom jobs are for free now. So I call this question solved. From reddit…
prior to writing this, i was firmly in the it was a mistake, they still cost points camp. to support that I went through the munitorum field manual and looked at EVERY single faction. anyone who has a 9th ed codex/supplement has them listed save orks. CSM was not released at the time of the MFM and still had its upgrades listed.
Given every single faction that has them has points listed, EXCEPT the orks, i am inclined to believe it is intentional and not an accidental omission.
space marines - chapter command points - listed
black templars - relic bearers - listed
blood angels - the lost - listed
dark angels - rights of initiation - listed
space wolves - nothing listed - no 9th ed supplement
deathwatch - kill team specializations - listed
grey knights - wisdom of prognosticars - listed
sisters - blessing of faithful - listed
custodes - captain-commander - listed
guard - 8th ed book, doesnt have upgrades
admech - holy orders - listed
knights - exalted court - listed
CSM - marks of chaos - listed
DG - deadly pathogens - listed
world eaters - doesnt have specific ones
1ksuns - legion command - listed
chaos daemons - 8th ed book, doesnt have them
Chaos Knights - favors of dark gods - listed
Asuryani - exarch powers - listed
harlies - pivotal roles - listed
Drukhari - listed
crons - cryptek arkana - listed
orks - not listed
Tau - prototype systems - listed
nids - listed
GSC - listed
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2022/07/01 20:19:31
2022/07/02 06:22:22
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Yeah, it' s a pure paranoia. Since “semi-releasing” of the new ork codex in the Snagga box, we live in constant mess of how the rules works. Trukkboyz that cannot go to the trukk was the first beginning. It' s a year already? And I still have no idea how this +1 to hit rule for trukkboyz works.
That - and the reroll issue !!” - is the reason why I play the speed mob and love it so much.
- number of rerolls = 1 (reroll on charge)
- auras = 1 (6” antiobsec, no interaction with my units and no modfication of any rolls)
- number of rules issues = 0 (AOOTS was the only one, now generaly solved and accepted)
- psychic phase = 0
- interactions with terrain = LOS and -1 to hit. Don' t care about bloody cover. Don' t care about breachable and scalable.
- number of weapon profiles = well, rokkits and big shootas. … ok there is little bit more, but they are the minor case
- move = half of the army asi 14+6. The quater are the planes. Just buggies makes a mess
- toughnes = small base T=5, big base T=6, characters T=7. Most of the opponents knows my T in T2
- 5++ unless T1, close combat or dropped from DS. Basic save is 4+ so I don' t care about AP -2 and bigger.
I simply need to actively use a very small ammount of rules and I simply roll. No tricks, no rerolls. I can play very fast.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/07/02 06:26:40
2022/07/03 09:34:22
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I wish you luck. I trust in Killrigs as the new kings of the table.
Beardragon - it is ok we hve to give up one secondary. Almost any list today have to.
The points are:
- give it up on the paper. Not in the gameplan. 10VP in Koptas hidden by AOOTS are “given up” on the paper but not on the table. Or used to be….
- you can give up one if you score a lot on two other and can block the scoring the opponent.
2022/07/04 16:17:40
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Beardedragon wrote: Oh no. the FAQ also mentions that if you count as stationary and advance (like our speed mob) you still fail your action. So you cant advance speed mob bikers anymore and do Good Bits.
So you would have to drive there instead and keep the 6++ while doing actions.
So another nerf for speed mobs.
No you are wrong. Fortunately. This is the old jacket. Discussed half year ago. The point is speedmob is “advance and no penalties”. This FAQ aims to “advance and count as remain stationary”. So this is something totaly different.
And nerf to Freebootas hits the speedmob. Despite the fact a lot of people play speedmob as Blood Axe, almost non of such lists used to be in top. All top lists was freebootas.
But doesnt matter. I don ´t understand why they do such changes in FAQ. such think should be in Dataslate. This is a mess.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I ´m interested what will appear in the official app. That will be another mess.
Brw the new rule about the terrain seems to be the source of really big issues:
Also if youre in a terrain feature on the side without a wall (so in the base of the feature) you can charge, fight since your within 2" engagement range as there is a peice of terrain between the two units, pile in 0.2" so there is no terrain between the two units and a distance of 1-1.7" between the two units, your opponent then cant fight back.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I have a feeling that last Dataslate and Nephilin is a work of group of pretty fine game designers doing their job pretty well. So - keep up to the standard - GW hired a bunch of monkeys from the ZOO to make a FAQ.
Good morning! Now I see it. The nerf to freebootas is unfortunately intentional. Because otherwise it stacks with this new rule and makes you zooming around the table with open top battlewagons full of tankbustas hitting on 4+… 45 D3 shots = 45 hits 8/-2/3 = big knight down pretty easy.
/ my speculation
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/06 10:27:04
2022/07/08 13:50:53
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
It is a time to point out few interesting FW units.
MEGA DREADS
1. Mega charge ability = add 1 dice to your charge roll and discrad the lowest. With Ramming speed it is 4 dice roll with free reroll and discard the lowest. It is very propable charge for 12”
2. Rippa Klaw is one of the few sources of nice D3+3 damage. Double klaw version has nice A6 WS 3+ 14/-3/D3+3
However, goff Mega Dread in Waaagh has nice A7 + exploding sixies S16! Small Knight Warglive positively down and even bigger Crusader cannot be sure that he survive!
This + T7 W16 3+ and plus 2D6 12” autohiting 5/0/1 very cool rrrrrrrrrrrrr garlings can be yours for 175p with the free extra option of Shokka Hulk Kustom Job
BIG TRAKK
What Trukk would like to be. Spiked Ram, two twin big shootas, transport of 12 and T6 W12 4+ and! Move 14”! Can be even better with free Squig Tyres.
What is even nore important is his shape. Bigger footprint for better road blocking but very cool racing low profile enable him to duck and hide behind standard containers.
All this can be yours for a bargain! Just 85p in heavy slot!
Tomsug wrote: There is actualy not a big problem with conga line. Two models on the ends and the rest is business as usually.
Be careful with the Battlewagon on 2 objectives. Single MODEL cannot control more then one objective.
Anybody any experience with the new rules already?
Keep in mind how dangerous what you just suggested is. Units of 6+ require the model to be in coherency with 2 other models. A unit of 10 grots with 2 models at the end gets a single pistol shot at it, kills 1 grot. You just lost 5 models because you have to continue to remove models until coherency is re-established. You then fail morale automatically basically, you are below 50% starting strength now and lose 1-2 more. you just lost 70%(ish) of the unit to a pistol.
Very good note!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/08 16:42:25
2022/07/09 07:39:46
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Grimskull - honestly… I gonna give a try to … FREEBOOTA SPEEDMOB!
Because:
- +1 to hit / reroll of once - I use it just for the Wazbooms with BS4+ (Smaller problem than on 5+) and have a problem to trigger it in half of the games. So this nerf is hard, but not so interesting for me.
- I take freebootas because the Badskull Banner giving me about 10-20VP every game in Nephilin too.
- I start with more CPs turn 1 and that gives me the adventage in CPs over Bloodaxe until T3. The reason? Simple. In Freeboota I pay 1CP for the banner. In Blood Axe I pay 2 CP for trait and relic.
And if you make a game plan, in any case you will not use AOOTS more than 3x. Propably twice. That is no more than 3CP back from trait and in average it is 2CP for the relic. All this for the price of 2CP. So the maximum benefit is about 3CP, propably 2CP. And you gain this benefit in last turns… if you survive.
So I see not so much a point in Blood Axe speed mob… you are basicly gaining CPs you paid before
I think the speedmob is dead but I want to give it a try to see how much
2022/07/09 14:57:52
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Automatically Appended Next Post: It is really pretty hard to make some plans regarding the list in the moment, there are no fix rules. Because this says: “Even GW knows this is a nonsence and plan to fix it soon, so don ´t bother with this.”
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/07/11 11:55:25
2022/07/11 17:06:24
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
