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I've been playing 40K for a bit over a year now and just got into Warmachine.

When I bought my Cygnar Battlegroup, my wife began looking at the Legion Battlegroup. She expressed more interest in that than she ever has with 40K, so I went ahead and bought it. She's played a couple of squad vs. squad games of 40K, but never got the hang of it and thus, never got fully into it.

I got both of our armies assembled and we began playing games. It was a bit rough at first because all we had was the Quick Start Rules for Hordes to explain Fury, which, IMHO, didn't do a very good job of it, leaving us with questions regarding Fury and Frenzy. We played a couple of games while trying to figure out the proper way to use Fury/Freny (I payed my Cygnar and she played her Legion). Both games, she lost miserably. Fortunately, this has not detered her from playing Warmahordes. Once we finally figured out Fury/Frenzy, I took control of her Legion and she played my Cygnar. The first game like this went horribly for me because I was still in the mentality of everything's tough enough to take a LOT of damage. The second game with me using her Legion went much better, as I started using the Shredders as a unit to tie up her big, mean, nasty 'Jacks while I would put Lylyth out into LOS (activating her before the Carnivean) so she could take shots at the Cygnarian models not in melee, then move the Carnivean back in front of Lylyth to block Cygnar's LOS to Lylyth so she could not be targeted. The tactic worked, and I won the game using Legion.

To put this into perspective, my wife has a difficult time learning things as complex as wargames. Combine this and the fact that Legion seems far to tactical for her to learn with, I felt it would be best to start her learning with a Warmachine army vs. my Cygnar. I had her look through the 4 armies in the Warmachine rulebook and she chose Cryx. I'm currently working on getting her Cryx painted up (just finished her last bonejacks this evening). We plan on getting her first game with her Cryx in sometime tonight or tomorrow.

Anyone have any advice to help me get her into it or any thoughts on how I'm going about it?

Start with the battlebox and stay there until she's comfortable. Don't powergame her but don't go too soft on her. Offer tactics advice and let her take back mistakes while going through this.

After that go to 15 points and then up the power curve. Cryx as a faction has a high curve but the battlebox is pretty much feat/parasite/venom/apply Slayer/ win.

That's pretty much our plan (sticking with the battle boxes). I give her tactical advice, while giving her options and possible pros/cons of each option. I give her some "wiggle room" on her measurement and such while trying to explain that she does need to be more careful of her measuring. As we play more games, I'm trying to emphasize the basics such as each phase and what happens in each phase (she wants to just move/shoot/swing without working the Focus/Fury).

When you say battle box then up to 15 points, what do you mean? The battle boxes are 15 point lists making use of some of the Warcaster's Warjack Points. We're currently playing our games with all of the models from each of the respective battle boxes (Cygnar runs Stryker, Ironclad Warjack, Charger Warjack, and Lancer Warjack for 17 points, using 2 of Stryker's 6 Warjack points. Cryx runs Deneghra, 2 Deathripper Bonejacks, a Defiler Bonejack, and a Slayer Helljack for 19 points, using 4 of Deneghra's 5 Warjack points.).

I started with my girlfriend 1 caster and 1 jack, no units, no feats, no spells, no special attacks or actions. We've built up to spells, feats, special attacks. Next up is a unit, a warjack and a caster. She took to it pretty well that way.

I may have to give that a try for our next game.

We just finished her first game with Cryx. She did OK, but still didn't work out for her. She still wants to play, but I've got a lot to work with her on.

Stripped down versions first work well because the first games are very very quick, so it didn't give her time to get bored, and we could get two levels done in a day, and in between uni assignments and classes (you may not have the same exact issues, but i'm sure you have something in your life which gets in the way of wargaming)

 mydartswinger wrote:
That's pretty much our plan (sticking with the battle boxes). I give her tactical advice, while giving her options and possible pros/cons of each option. I give her some "wiggle room" on her measurement and such while trying to explain that she does need to be more careful of her measuring. As we play more games, I'm trying to emphasize the basics such as each phase and what happens in each phase (she wants to just move/shoot/swing without working the Focus/Fury).

When you say battle box then up to 15 points, what do you mean? The battle boxes are 15 point lists making use of some of the Warcaster's Warjack Points. We're currently playing our games with all of the models from each of the respective battle boxes (Cygnar runs Stryker, Ironclad Warjack, Charger Warjack, and Lancer Warjack for 17 points, using 2 of Stryker's 6 Warjack points. Cryx runs Deneghra, 2 Deathripper Bonejacks, a Defiler Bonejack, and a Slayer Helljack for 19 points, using 4 of Deneghra's 5 Warjack points.).

you dont really "choose" to use some of a casters warjack points. Stryker's battlegroup is 11pts in total. the cryx one is 13pts. a 15pt army is strykers battlegoup, and 6 sword knights, for example. a 15pt cryx army is denny's battlegroup, and a skarlock.

Overall, i'd stay away from warmachine v hordes battlebox games. stick with either warmachine or hordes in total.

Avoid Cryx for the moment. Denny is one of the premier casters in the game (some say she's broken!) but i avoid her use in starter games as she has too many abilities that outright ignore the starter level of the game, and at 15pts, her spell list is arguably quite excessive. the cygnar/striker starter is in my opinion the premier starter set for teaching the core rules, as everything must work together to effect the win. you cant rely on one power piece. the khador and menoth starters match up quite well against it.

For hordes, i find skorne v trolls to be a good place to start. pKaya is very frustrating at that level with her spirit door shenanigans, and Legion is legion

Seriously though, encourage the missus. i think its great you're getting her into the game. but like any hobby, if you've never done it before you'll find it hard. thinking tactically is no different. especially with PP games a sthe learning curve is quite steep. maybe she should seek some advice in the relevant boards on the PP site. im sure you wouldnt mind her kicking your ass from time to time.

hope that helps!

Thank you for all the advice.

As for the armies being played, I picked the Cygnar largely because it was the last Warmachine Battle group that my FLGS had. Forunately, it worked out for me because, as I read the Cygnar fluff, I like it more. Also, I've been ultimately happy with playing them. My wife, OTOH, chose her armies based on looks alone. She saw the Legion box and fell in love with their looks. After getting our first few games in together, we decided that for now a Warmachine army would work better for her to learn the game with. With that decision being made, I handed her the Warmachine rule book and let her look through the models. She liked the looks of Cryx above all others, so that's what we got for her.

I know, looks really aren't the driving force to success, but I felt that for her to stick with the game, it would be better to keep her happy with the looks of her army. As a matter of fact, I'm currently taking a break from painting her Slayer (me painting her army was one of her conditions to play. Besides, I tried to let her paint a model when she showed interest in doing so, but she really didn't enjoy it nor have any success with it).

I may look into buying a Khador box in a week or so (I would like to start a Khador army for myself, but she could use either the Khador or Cygnar if those would be the better armies to learn on). For the time being, I'll probably go with the suggestion of


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Using a single caster and a single jack.

Sorry for the split post, I'm having to type this on my phone, so it gets a bit messed up sometimes.

Thanks for the info on the points costs. I was thinking that you really only used the Warjack points from the caster if your lsit would be over points without them (essentially).

Single jack and caster seems a great way to learn someone whos not "wargame" savvy, and build from there. Also let them win a couple... people like winning

I am in the same boat, as you right now. We are both learning and we had such bad experiences playing 40k with others, looking for something a bit more balanced and not really sure where to go.

I'll do the 1 warlock, 1 Warbeast to start with stripped down rules. Thank you for this thread.

No problem.

If you like the 40k universe, don't be too discouraged by your preveious experiences. 40K has a very steep tactical learning curve, especially if you don't play a top tier army like Grey Knights or Blood Angels. Plus, depending on your area, there are a lot of highly competitive and WAAC players. Find a group that plays more to the fluff and is a bit more beginer friendly.

Back to the Warmahordes. My wife and I played 2 games with 1 Warcaster and 1 Heavy Warjack each this evening. We each won 1, and both came down were very close. The first is the 1 that I won. She killed my Ironclad Warjack and pulled off a 'Caster kill by ignoring her Slayer Helljack and going straight for Deneghra. The second game, I introduced my wife to Deneghra's Cripplin Grasp spell. With that,her Slayer took outkmy Ironclad in 1 melee (2nd round), while taking very little damage in return. I went for the hail mary and threw a double boosted (1 extra die on attack and 1 extra die on Damage) Arcane Bolt and Strykers's pistol (also double boosted) and left Deneghra with 1 damage left. She casted Crippling Grasp on Stryker and let the Slayer move in to take him out.


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We'll probably wind up doing quite a few more games like this so she can fully get the hang of the game. So far, it's worked out well.


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Thank you all again for the great advice.

Yeah 40k has turned me off with the recent releases. If those are going to be the prices across the board for new updates, I cant continue to buy that amount of figures.

Id rather get the core books for hordes, a couple models and have enough to do games that are fun and balanced with a bit more imagination (at least from what I get so far rule book wise and watching some friends play)

I find that Warmahordes is a nice alternative to 40k and cost wise depending on what you want is nicer. The main problem with the game overall is starting up as there are a lot of rules to learn. I found that after reading it a few times I had gotten a general idea of how to play but not good enough to really play. I went to my FLGS on the Warmahordes night and talked with some of the guys and they ran me through a few practice games. For the first we just did a simple Caster and 1-2 jacks then we added a unit for the next one and then did a little bigger. After that we did a mixed game of Cygnar vs Legion and after that I had a pretty good feel for the game. I went in 50/50 with a friend for the Warmachine Starter set (I wanted Khador out of it). I currently have a small force of Khador, Cygnar, and Legion.

First off, a clarification: Denny's box is 14pts. The bone jacks are 13, the slayer is 6 (19) minus Denny's points is 14.

It amused me that you went from a high learning curve faction to ANOTHER high learning curve faction. I recommend that her next one be Circle. Yknow, just to complete the cycle.

My problem is that my gf picked up Ret. And she's really good with it. Like seriously gives me a good run for my money. But unfortunately she has this rediculous notion in her head that she disappoints me if she loses. Since she doesn't want to bruise my ego by winning, we have this Catch 22 going where we rarely play. >.< If she playes others, it's less of a problem, but she doesn't want to risk my disapproval if she doesn't win. She doesn't seem to understand that I LIKE beating her. Not because I like pounding noobs, but because she's actually good enough TO beat me. A victory against a worthy opponant is a thing to be proud of. Hearing about what happened, what she figured out and what she overlooked, I love doing all of that. I don't care about win or loss, I want her to have fun. She's been enjoying release events, and so far REALLY likes the game alot more than 40k.

Wargames can be really complicated to learn, especially if you have no previous wargame or even RPG experience. I have played various RPGs since 85 and tabletop games since 94 and countless other games of all kinds. And Warmachine was really tough to pick up at first for me, too. even if you know the basics there is ALOT to pick up and be aware of.

But Cryx are a good starting point. I really like how that battlebox stacks up against the others. Against the Cygnar box Deneghra can basically remove your ironclad from the game with crippling grasp. Then parasite on her main target and beat it up. If Denny parks an arcnode about 3 inches from Stryker and arcs scourge then even on a miss he will be knocked down. This makes it so that the rest of her jacks can auto hit him in melee. Alternatively, instead of scourging, just feat and use venom as mush as possible. Then let any remaining jacks finish up the problem. Anf if Denny can get parasite on Stryker on the turn before she assasinates him then even better! Be sure to boost to make sure it hits.

And remember that against alot of newer people you want to take it a little easy on them as they get the hang of things. If they forget something then let them go back and fix it. Don't worry too much about if one of your models is out of position, etc. You don't want to be too sloppy, because they are watching you to learn how to play, but give them some openings. Teaching is really an art form and most people are really bad at it. For most of us we need to stay patient and put our testosterone fueled competitiveness aside for a little while. That goes doubly for me, so I know how hard it is to actually do vs say.

Also, not sure what your wife is into or not, but if she is willing to read up on strategies point her towards websites like battlecollege and the privateer press forums. They both have run downs on nearly all the units and some basic strategies and synergies. But find out what she likes about the game and get into that. It might be fluff, the game, painting, collecting expensive cool models, or just hanging out with you (yeah, hard to believe, huh?) Focus on that and the rest comes much easier.

First off, the topic at hand, getting the wifey into the game. I know that her main reason for getting into the game is to do something with me. She attempted this once before when I first got into 40K. The chose the Tyranids for that. I got her a single box of Hormagants and a Codex, and started with squad on squad games with both of us playing my Marin while I was building up the Tyranids. That's as far as she got because she really didn't get "into" the game. I had to beg her to play every game, and we eventually gave up on the idea. With Warmahordes, she seems to be more interested in it. She asked me to get her the battle group, and she asks me to play the game.


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Last night, we went to our FLGS and I played a couple games of Warmachine against a guy that knows how to play. It was definitely an eye opener as to how much there is to the game, though we were only playing battle groups.

That being said, I know that my wife is nowhere near ready for a full game with full rules. Right now, 'Caster and single 'Jack is best for her.

I'm now in a similar situation (similar-ish anyway). My girlfriend, who I have recently been introducing to warmachine, came into my FLGS with me and I was showing her the battleboxes to try and get her interested in a faction (other than cygnar). How about this one? Shes a russian-y lady *pointing to Khador box*. How about these? Look at them, they are like cute little chickens *pointing at Cryx box*. She wanders around for a minute until she spots this.



Instantly, "I want these ones, they are so cute! Look at its little tusks!" We investigate the box, and it gets better...

"Oooh look at this one"



And then the motherload...she nearly bought it on the spot because of this. Atleast I know what I'm getting her for Christmas now ha



She is now convinced she wants to collect Skorne, and the more we talked about it the more sure she seemed. So now I'm left with the issue of learning how to play hordes while teaching her as well. So...would I start at the same place I did with warmachine? One caster and jack (so one warlock and beast)? Or is it better with battlebox games? What do you guys all reckon?

And as an aside, correct me if I'm wrong, aren't Skorne the evil guys? Well, you know, more evil than others.

Good news for you and her, this trio comes as one kit. Just invest in some magnets and viola!

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Good news for you and her, this trio comes as one kit. Just invest in some magnets and viola!

Yeah, its like the defender/ironclad/cyclone box (I'm sure there are others for other factions). I think I'll just help her make the cannon one, and she can buy another for herself when she gets proper into it. By then I may have gotten proficient with magnets....

I'd buy the Skorne boxed set. It comes with Morghoul(who is a nasty piece of work), 2 clyclops light warbeasts, and 1 Gladiator heavy warbeast.

That will get her started with a decent sized force, and its a great value. The savings are immense.

Nagashek wrote:First off, a clarification: Denny's box is 14pts. The bone jacks are 13, the slayer is 6 (19) minus Denny's points is 14.

It amused me that you went from a high learning curve faction to ANOTHER high learning curve faction. I recommend that her next one be Circle. Yknow, just to complete the cycle.

My problem is that my gf picked up Ret. And she's really good with it. Like seriously gives me a good run for my money. But unfortunately she has this rediculous notion in her head that she disappoints me if she loses. Since she doesn't want to bruise my ego by winning, we have this Catch 22 going where we rarely play. >.< If she playes others, it's less of a problem, but she doesn't want to risk my disapproval if she doesn't win. She doesn't seem to understand that I LIKE beating her. Not because I like pounding noobs, but because she's actually good enough TO beat me. A victory against a worthy opponant is a thing to be proud of. Hearing about what happened, what she figured out and what she overlooked, I love doing all of that. I don't care about win or loss, I want her to have fun. She's been enjoying release events, and so far REALLY likes the game alot more than 40k.

Nagashek... I'm assuming when you've told her she hasn't believed you about you liking beating her because she's so good? ...Would be nice if simply showing the above statement to her and pointing out that we all agree with you in regards to us rather having a hard fought battle win or lose then an easy win.

motyak wrote:She is now convinced she wants to collect Skorne, and the more we talked about it the more sure she seemed. So now I'm left with the issue of learning how to play hordes while teaching her as well. So...would I start at the same place I did with warmachine? One caster and jack (so one warlock and beast)? Or is it better with battlebox games? What do you guys all reckon?

And as an aside, correct me if I'm wrong, aren't Skorne the evil guys? Well, you know, more evil than others.

Skorne... as far as I know, yeah they're pretty much evil.

I'd suggest the starter as well just for the value of it (although I'm probably quite safe in saying I'm the only person I've come across that magnetised the banner to the Gladiator as I was getting fed up with it snapping off). The quick start rules are also a bonus.

Don't worry so much about feeling you have to pick up some Hordes yourself and then going through the step by step process with the rules, you can happily use your warmachine for that too although the way Fury works will mean that the Warcaster has an advantage over the Warlock at that level of game and it may make it easier for her if you're both playing to the same tune though.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone refer to Titans as "Cute" before though...

Depends, Fury can be more devestating on a single turn. You can just go all out and force the warbeasts to cause maximum damage and damn the consequences next turn. if its the turn you get a caster kill, or the enemy is too devestated to take advantage of it, then so much the better.

And then Skorne has ways to avoid their warbeasts failing frenzy. Bronzebacks can control other Titans, they still have Fury but you don't lose control.

I play Skorne as my main faction and fluff-wise, yes they are "evil". Basically they're a huge conquering army from the east that makes extensive use of slaves, semi-necromantic magic (mortithurgy), and pain; on the other hand, they have a very strong warriors code of honour. As far as playstyle and stuff, they are very much a "run-in and beat face" faction and can take a decent beating in return.