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Hello all!

I've just been hit with the Hordes bug. Picked up the Skorne starter pack, played two games against Menoth and Retribution (A win and a loss, respectively), and now I can't wait to play more! I wanted to get my list to 15 points and found that a unit of 5 Praetorian Swordsmen and a Leader are 4 points, slotting in perfectly with my list. My question is, does Privateer Press have a stance about alternative models as long as they're based correctly? Do the Steam Roller tournaments allow alternative models?

There are a few reasons for this question. One is because I find working with plastics far easier than metals and two is because I like to kit bash my models at least a little bit to give them a unique look.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

They don't allow alternative models in official events.

Thanks for that. I suppose I expected it as that seems to be GW's stance in their stores. That's a shame. Is one allowed to remodel, or alter the base models in any way and still have them be acceptable?

 gpfunk wrote:
Thanks for that. I suppose I expected it as that seems to be GW's stance in their stores. That's a shame. Is one allowed to remodel, or alter the base models in any way and still have them be acceptable?

You're allowed to alter models so long as they end up
recognizable.What did you intend on doing?

 gpfunk wrote:
Thanks for that. I suppose I expected it as that seems to be GW's stance in their stores. That's a shame. Is one allowed to remodel, or alter the base models in any way and still have them be acceptable?

I think the rules go like this:

-Conversions must be built from starting point of the original model, or an official alternate model, for example "Extreme" sculpts or limited edition con releases.
-Conversions must have ~50% of that original model intact.
-Conversions must be recognizable as the model in question.
-Conversions must use any & all of the parts contained in the upgrade kit if it's an Character model upgraded from a base model.
-TOs have a lot of room to make personal judgement calls that may be more liberal or conservative than the above guidelines.

So I basically hate all the heads on skorne models, aside from Warlocks.

My intention was to replace the arms and head with plastics from GW. So the skorne would all have helmets, and the arms would be an easier to use plastic version, with similar swords.

Though from the sound of it, that might be on the very edge of 50%, and it might be difficult to recognize them without their iconic spikey faces.

 gpfunk wrote:
So I basically hate all the heads on skorne models, aside from Warlocks.

My intention was to replace the arms and head with plastics from GW. So the skorne would all have helmets, and the arms would be an easier to use plastic version, with similar swords.

Though from the sound of it, that might be on the very edge of 50%, and it might be difficult to recognize them without their iconic spikey faces.

It's really more mode silhouette that counts more than anything. People aren't going to mistake your skorne for not-skorne just because they're wearing helmets if they're in a skrone army and have the same body.

Weapon alterations really the biggest thing to be wary of. The helmet thing is probably totally fine but the weapons really do need to be a good match. Models with swords still need to have swords, models with reach weapons need to have long-looking weapons, chain weapons need chains etc..

Oh yeah, I was aware of that. The only difference that would be noticeable is that the swords are a little shorter and a bit wider. So they're still widely recognizable as swords rather than knives or something with reach.

http://privateerpress.com/files/SR2012_Rules_V1.3.pdf

Very end of page 1, all of page 2, and a few lines of page 3

 gpfunk wrote:
Oh yeah, I was aware of that. The only difference that would be noticeable is that the swords are a little shorter and a bit wider. So they're still widely recognizable as swords rather than knives or something with reach.

Given the sillyness of the Avatar's dagger that has Reach I think the idea that a weapon needs to be long to have Reach is a little shakey.

Heck, the plastic Vanquisher's chain weapon is longer then a Templar's chain weapon, but the Templar is the one with Reach.


Just make the weapon similer to the original and you should be fine.

run it by your opponent and tournament organisers first.


to be fair, headswaps aren't that big of a deal. fielding high elves as skorne would annoy folks though.

i do a fair bit of conversions on my PP stuff - a lot of my doom reavers are converted to be wielding axes (GW bestigors). I've run it by tournament orgasnisers, and they're quite cool with it as (a) the model is based on a doom reaver, and (b) "fellblade" isnt specifically a sword. axes are bladed weapons too!

ultimately, there is the official stance, and then a wee little ammendum that, regardless, ask the TO. he's the final say. most are fairly cool with it.

The short version of the conversion policy is this: at any event other than PP's big convention tournaments the tournament organizer has full discretion to accept or deny conversions.

If you are really worried, go to your local shop and get to know the guys there, especially the press ganger. Most people are fine with allowing reasonable conversions that do not cause confusion. I have a couple of models that do not follow the letter of the conversion guide rules but I've never had a problem playing them at local events. I suppose if you got really into the competitive side of the game you might run into some issues at major events, but if you can afford the travel you can afford a second set of models.

I may be a poster child for alternative models and non-PP parts on my Cryx army. Nearly all the skulls are replaced with Necron heads. Got lots of Necron guns on stuff. My Corruptor Jack has Dark Eldar Talos arms and all my Jacks have Defiler masks for Heads. Hell, I have a unit that is just Dark Eldar Wracks without their back humps to stand in for Cephalayx Drudge Slaves. My Pistol Wraiths are Caine and Jarl, which while PP figs, aren't even Cryx faction.

Playing the tournament scene across five states, I have only ever had a SINGLE TO at a SINGLE event DQ anything, and it was only that one unit of Wracks. Probably because he tries to make the event super official and has PP staff attending. Even heard him tell their photographer not to bother taking many pictures of my stuff because they couldn't/wouldn't use them.

Those Wracks have been allowed at multiple other events in multiple other states though.

Long story short, the Rules are more of a Guideline in my opinion. They're there to provide TOs an "out" if someone shows up with something really bad/stupid/confusing. Make it clearly look like what it is supposed to be, something that won't cause much confusion, any you will likely have no problem. Head swaps are fine. Arm swaps are fine. Make sure they have the weapons/weapon types they are supposed to.

The policy as written is very strick, but I find in reality noone usually cares much. It is mostly just there in case someone gets really stupid.

Given the sillyness of the Avatar's dagger that has Reach I think the idea that a weapon needs to be long to have Reach is a little shakey.

Heck, the plastic Vanquisher's chain weapon is longer then a Templar's chain weapon, but the Templar is the one with Reach.

Yeah, also considering Niightmare has claws that are about 1/116th of an inch longer than a slayer and he has reach? Could probably go on and on about models with reach vs without. It isn't always easy to tell.

I also find the difference between 1/2 " to 2" kind of odd. I almost think they should've just made a stat for melee range. a 1 is 1", 2 is 2", etc. Give them more flexibility with weapons and balance.

My stance on alternative models would be to not get the swordsmen, and to get beastmasters instead to help with fury control and to boost damage

The biggest issue to me is..

Timed turns/Deathclock.

If we are paying timed turns, and my opponet has a fully custom army, i dont want to be.. wtf is that.. and spend time trying to remember what was what.

If everything has 50% of its origional.. Its not hard.. expecially if swordsmen have swords.. and not Axes etc.

Fair enough. I honestly think it'll be fine. But when I end up doing it I may as well post it somewhere and get your opinions. You'll still be able to tell they're 1 wound, two sword infantry. And that means praetorians for Skorne.

Official stance is ask the TO. If you want to use a soda can as a Bronzeback and the TO says ok, then go ahead and use the soda can... But expect a lot of wtfs.

Recently I got a plastic Warpwolf kit and was GOING to put my Stalker together, then I got a Ghetorix upgrade for my birthday, so naturally he got it instead (then realised that if I turn his axe around it looks like he is playing a guitar, heavy metal Kromac list incoming.) Since I had bought a spare feral for the early days of Hordes that never got far past the priming stage, I planned to just do a hand swap on the feral, which, with its original pose, makes it look like it is unsheating the sword to make a drawing strike. Pretty cool, IMO. If you use the main rule book rule it's totally legal, but by SR rules it isn't. The SR rules want conversions based on the original model. Sure, I could make an argument that if it were plastic, then then nature of a multi-kit says that of COURSE its BASED on the original model. It's all the same chassis. My conversion is based off of a metal Feral warpwolf, not a warpwolf STALKER.

Really I only expect issues from TFG who gets his ass handed to him and then needs to complain that it was my conversions that lost him the game and get my list disqualified. I have run into those types before, but I haven't seen any TO's who would buy that as anything other than sour grapes.

I see where they're coming from with this rule, but I can't agree with it. In 40k it's not like someone showing up with a Kharn or Draigo conversion was able to obfuscate that piece. I knew at all times where that jag-off was, who he was, and what he was capable of. And though one might convert their warcaster to make Deneghra look like one o the Witchcoven or use a Warwitch Siren instead, all that control range measuring from the caster will give away that it's SOMEONE important...

The modelling restrictions are my least favorite parts of the game, but I can deal with that.