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HQ
Abaddon 265

Troops
6 Chosen x4Melta,Rhino 183
6 Chosen x4Melta,Rhino 183
6 Chosen x4Melta,Rhino 183
6 Chosen x4Melta,Rhino 183

31 Cultists,Autoguns,shotgun 167

Fast
HellDrake BaleFlamer
HellDrake BaleFlamer
170x3 (340)

Heavy
Havoc Autocannon x4
Havoc Autocannon x4
Havoc Autocannon x4
115x2 (345)

24 Str7 Autocannon shots (For glancing Transports/Flyers).
16 Melta's for killing Termies/Paladins/Bigger tanks/MC's/lucky hit on a flyer. Can move these units 12 and still snapshot at flyers from inside rhino. If you can get within 6 you pretty much only need to hit to stand a good chance of putting the flyer down).
Helldrakes with Flamers for killing any troops and vector strikes on flyers or anything else that they can fly over.
30 rapid fire autoguns.
1 shotgun
1 Abaddon beatstick leading a fearless mob of cultists. These guys take middle ground/objective.

Ive had a look at all of the other options in the book.
I think Abaddon plus Chosen looks the best option in 6th. Chosen are cheap and you can load them up with special weapons. Only issue is that they aren't fearless.
Anything else gets expensive quickly.

I'm still considering tinkering this list a little, its not play tested.
Any thoughts?

Hello,

Always likes the choosed but 6 Choosen in a rhino is not a particularly intimidating at the 1850 pt level. Particularly with no combat muscle in them. Then add in the points cost of Abaddon, who it potentially wasted in the cultist squad, and there appears to be a lot of points spent with very little "umph." As you indicate the choosen are tank hunters and little else -unless you regularly fight GK termie armies.

If the choosen are serious about taking objectives they possible don't have the range on their weapons to be seriously in the game - for objectives remote on the battlefield.

The hell drakes appear solid enough.
The havocs as well although some long range higher strength could be an idea; don't mess about glancing take them out cleanly!

I think you have taylored against flyers but gone overboard with it. Against an IG gun line (or chimera spam) with a few LRBT and las cannon weapons teams (or other shooty armies) I don't think the choosen will stand a chance and after that you'll struggle.

That said, there is a lot of redundancy in the force - multiple units of the same type - so any plan you approach on the battle field will may be difficult to "put a spanner in the works of".

Hope the play testing goes well.

I agree that Abaddon is being at bit wasted for his points due to him sticking with Cultists. If you can somehow fit in the points, try to attach him to a different squad as a proper retinue. But then again, it could work to footslog him with the cultists, providing him a massive meat-shield. If you're going to try the cultist meat-shield tactic, try removing the autoguns so you get some spare points which you can use for some of your chosen by giving them Plasma and have maybe 1 or 2 squads with meltas. Otherwise, the list seems pretty solid.

This is a wonderful 5e list, which is to say it completely ignores the fact that Rhinos are about as durable as tissue paper under the new vehicle damage rules. Meltas in 6e are mostly overkill suffering from lack of range since lower-Strength weapons with a better rate of fire are all you need to kill anything short of AV14; I'd advise building a list that isn't quite as inhibited by the fact that your Troops units are utterly useless against anything further than 12" away and have to footslog to their targets.

I can't advise playing an Abbadon/Chosen list in the first place; eighteen points a model isn't 'cheap', and they're no more effective than regular Chaos Marines before you get them inside 12" of the enemy, which the Chaos list has a deficiency of ways to do. Look into longer-ranged and more versatile Troops units; Chosen aren't very useful in 6th edition.

Thanks for the feedback guys.
Putting together a decent Chaos list is harder than I imagined it would be.
I did think about dropping the cultists and putting Abaddon with some FNP Termies.

I think i prefer the look of the cultist blob though as they are scoring and I can just LoS anything ap2 or better making the squad pretty durable.
For now I'll play test as above. I wanted to autoguns so I could have some range while the unit tries to hold mid table.

I could add plasma/flamer to the Chosen rather than maxing out on Melta's, agreed, the short range does concern me but also with that much melta, there isn't anything that can really stand up against it other than blob.
Blob is where the helldrakes come in.

But...with any list, it needs play testing. Please feel free to comment further.
Thanks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
AnomanderRake, thanks for the feedback.
Taken on board, i guess, just because you can take Chosen doesn't mean you should.
They are pretty cheap compared to other elite options.
To be honest i'm a little lost with Chaos.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

I can't advise playing an Abbadon/Chosen list in the first place; eighteen points a model isn't 'cheap', and they're no more effective than regular Chaos Marines before you get them inside 12" of the enemy, which the Chaos list has a deficiency of ways to do. Look into longer-ranged and more versatile Troops units; Chosen aren't very useful in 6th edition.

I completely disagree here. You say that they aren't cheap. Let's look at the two units.

A unit of 5 CSM come with a bolter and bolt pistol, LD8, and one attack. The unit can elect to have 1 special weapon. They rely on their Champion for a good LD.
A unit of 5 Chosen come with a bolter, bolt pistol, LD9, two attacks and cost 15 more points. The unit can elect to have 4 special weapons. They do not rely on their Champion for a good LD.

To equal the stats of a Chosen unit, they'd have to spend 3 points to get a CCW and VotLW. The advantage is that they'd get Hatred (Space Marines) and the Champ would have LD10. That's a decent argument for going with CSM, aside from the fact that they only get 1 special weapon. Maybe one is enough. I prefer to have more, in the event that they get attacked and my opponent's sergeant gets a to-hit roll of 6 and snipes my Plasma Gun wielding CSM.

A Chosen can take four special weapons. They can also take VotLW but get LD10 for every member of the group. With the default lack of ATSKNF and Fearless, this is a huge boost. So, for 10 points more, I can have LD10 and Hatred (Space Marines). If my Champion gets sniped, my Chosen are still at LD10. If one of my special weapons gets sniped, I have backups.

Maybe you aren't interested in VotLW or a CCW for your CSM. Maybe you aren't interested in having the option for multiple special weapons. That's completely valid and, if that's the case, CSM are absolutely the better choice. That being said, to say that Chosen are useless simply isn't true. It might be your opinion, but not all opinions are right.

Why 31 cultists? Odd number

Its because there were 31 followers of the apocalypse...joke, spare points bought me an extra dude and a shotgun.

Id love to fit in some more long range into this and thin out the melta a little but i already filled my heavy slots :(

You could always drop the autocannons in one of your Havocs for Missile Launchers. It gives you 48", a single shot at S8 instead of two at S7, but gives you the opportunity to take Skyfire.

You might have to drop some cultists to take a couple of ML with Skyfire, but that might be an option. You'd have a few less shots, but 12" more of a range.

Autocannons are 48 inches

What about more distanced fire power in the way of multi role Chosen?

HQ
Abaddon 265

Troops
6 Chosen x3Melta,x1Lascannon,Rhino
6 Chosen x3Melta,x1Lascannon,Rhino
6 Chosen x3Melta,x1Lascannon,Rhino
6 Chosen x3Melta,x1Lascannon,Rhino

23 Cultists,Autoguns,shotgun.

Fast
HellDrake
HellDrake

Heavy
Havoc Auto
Havoc Auto
Havoc Auto

1849

Intersting- not sure about the cultist...and...maybe a mix of special weapons would not hurt

I quite like that last list- depending on the terrain youll start to be able to sit back with your 4 lcs + 12 autocannons + harass with drakes and as the opponent comes to you your ability to do damage will increase.

Id try testing:

Troops
6 Chosen x2plasma,x2 Lascannon,Rhino
6 Chosen x2Melta,x 2 Lascannon,Rhino
6 Chosen x2 Melta, 2plasma, Rhino
6 Chosen x4Melta, Rhino

moving the lc will just allow you to reposition some of your close range rhinos while the LCs can stay active. (2 fire points ) on a rhino.
i think plasma guns ive you more depth/ability to respond to various possibilities- but tbh thats based on 5e.

my concern would be that in a stiff breeze the chosen would get shot, and die like normal marines except they are costing 30 points each. And they are not kitted out for CC so they will be charged/countercharged as well. It's too easy to get to the center of that tootsie pop. Most lists have something to break open the transport, then kill the contents with S8 AP3 pie plates or badass rapid fire or some other thing. Keep in mind if you only have two spec. weapons per squad, they can shoot out of a rhino hatch and not even need to get out.

Definitely the first thing you want to do is cut back on the meltagun spam, and add plasmaguns.... I'd think about adding more bodies/vehicles or target priorities to screen those chosen as they advance.

I'd rather not take the Rhino and take mark of Excess for FNP, with just 4 it wouldnt do you any good. Your flyers dont show up till 2nd turn at the earliest and those Rhinos would be taking all the AT fire.

Use the good Chaos fast attack choice to make up for the mobility.

No need to go overboard with specials either, just because they can take all that stuff, doesnt actually mean they need all of them. Leave some vanilla guys to soak wounds for the rest.

Not sold on so many Autocannons. Mainly due to their poor AP vs marines.

If you abandoned Abaddon is their a cheaper character which can make plague marines troops and is there enough spare points for this.

Last night I had two plague units 7 strong cause my orks some real headaches - unil my dread rolled in to the scrap.

Ithani, i'd love to take 2 lascannns but the limit is one per squad.

I'd initially be using the rhino's as cover, in some situations ill need to create cover for the havocs if lacking terrain or going second.

I'd start the Chosen outside of the rhino's and position so only lascannons could shoot/be shot at in cover.

I think i would potentially have 1-2 turns of shooting with the lascannons before they die or before enemy threats are close enough to be a concern, then it would be time to embark rhino's and switch to melta.

Meade, Long range fire and closing CC units would need to be the priority targets.I do hear you though, bodies are thin on the ground, ill need to play my long range fire power to my advantage and ensure I have dominance in that area.

Jackster, i did look at the FNP option but it gets expensive quickly, as you say, for it to work requires more bodies in units to bost your possibilities of making some fnp rolls. More bodies means more expense and less support fielded.

I also think Rhino's are a better option.
They can act as BLOS cover and they offer many other tactical options.

Jasper, Whats not to love about Autocannons?
2 shots each Str 8 at 48 inches ap4.
24 shots in this list.
There shouldnt be any concern over AP 4 as even if you were to shoot at a unit the sheer amount of saves the enemy has to make fixes that.

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Autocannons are 48 inches

Bah. I'm so used to associating Reaper Autocannons with Chaos that I forgot that Chosen can use the normal Autocannon.

 L0rdF1end wrote:
2 shots each Str 8 at 48 inches ap4.

They are S7, but against MEQ, it's going to be a 2+ to wound regardless. It just won't double any MEQ units out. That's one reason I like ML. It might only be one shot, but it's S8 and AP3, so it takes away armor saves, denies FNP, and doubles out some of the pesky, multi-wound units, especially if they aren't in cover.

On paper I do think the autocannons get the edge against basic marines. However I'm with kcwm regarding autocannons and like to have something to threaten heavy armour from a distance (people always tell me to get close and melta but I would much rather knock out a big threat turn 1) missles for AV13 the ML just edges the AC on paper as it can pen; las cannon for AV14

If I couldn't afford the flakk missiles then I would go for autocannons for flyer duty. But the skyfire raises them head and shoulders above the AC.

All I'm really saying is hedge your bets by swapping 4 havoc ACs for MLs.

Thanks chaps, yep, Str 7, was meant to say 7 doh.

If you go for flakk missiles, they are expensive, plus, if your opponent has flyers you can hedge your bets your flakk havocs will be the primary target.
That wouldnt then leave you in good stead for dealing with flyers.

Making a competative Chaos list should be easier than this

Im also looking at an Epidemius FNP/Tally list but it seems pretty hard to do at 1850.

facepalm 1 lc per unit...

I get the feelign that this list might be a little thin vs hordes if the fliers dont get out quicksmart and even a guard mech spam might out range you. Let us know how a few games go

I think Tally is gonna be one of the strongest lists for chaos at least till it gets faqd.

Honestly think that the plague squads will outperform the chosen squads 90% of the time but yeh if your committed to doing a chosen aba thing then it will work really well... sometimes ... :p

L0rdF1end,
I think it depends on the flyers as to how effective they will be at taking out the devastators. Three las cannons may not do it simply becasue they can go to ground in cover for a decent cover save. The heldrake flamer is another thing all together.

If you suspect they will go for the flakk devastators deploy them near the back of your zone and the autocannon ones nearer the front to, hopefully, get shots at the rear armour to increase their affectiveness.

(You would think I have share's in the company which make flakk missiles with the selling I'm doing).

You're certainly right about the difficulty in making it competitive, probably because its all a bit new and different for the moment.

Regarding the comments by Ithani, I think the heldrakes can sort out the hordes. If they have enough AA to easily deel with them then the chances are its not much of a horde.