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So today I said I might go fantasy for a while seeing as how ive played 40k way too much. When they asked me what army I would play I said daemons.
I was told they were cheesey and shouldnt play them. I have dealt with Daemons in 40k and always seem to lose so I wanted to see how they were in fantasy.
Should I play them or not? Also why are they cheesey?

Who did you ask?

In the past editions, Demons were much cheesier given the way the magic phase worked back then. But now they are much more intune with other armies. The only really TFG-y unit is Kairos.

I can't imagine how anyone thinks they are cheesy. They have some of the worst lords in the game. Basically monsters at +200 points. About half their units are merely fair or junk, including the nerfed Flamers. What they have are Bloodletters and cheap heroes who are very solid for their costs. Though their other Core are decent, I think bloods are stand-out.

You can maybe pull off some cheesy strategies with perfectly aligned units. Like a lvl4 Keeper with Masque and the appropriate icons. But lose any one of those and it crumbles, and it's insanely expensive.

As stated, only Khairos has the ability to lol splat a whole game. I think Daemons in general are showing their age with their lack of options compared to 8th books. Giving them some gigantic Slaanesh chariots didn't help. Though the new monster did.

It is possible to have some obnoxious combinations if you want to with the DoC book.

Combine the -2 Ld banner with the Masque and the Lore of Shadows spell of Ld nerfing, for example. You can easily beat a unit's Ld down by 4-8 points. Combine that with the Slaneesh spell of take damage til you pass a Ld test or the unit is destroyed. This has a lot of moving parts, but is absurd when you pull it off.

There's always taking multiple Siren abilities. Making enemy units have to either declare a charge of choose to flee can pull their battle line out of position and set up devastating counter charges.

Skulltaker is silly in challenges, especially for his cheap cost; but beware the 2+ ward vs flaming. In a challenge, Skulltaker is likely to get off what amounts to HKB before the enemy strikes against just about anything lacking ASF.

Daemons can be built to be very...unfun to play against, but you kind of have to make an effort to do so. It's not a situation where everything in the book is broken; there are just a few combinations that are exceedingly good.

Yes, as I said. And if you kill one of those units or models, the entire strategy they are built around crumbles. DoC only have one unit who can be built around solo, Khairos. Every other cheese tactic requires 2-4 units and items working together. That's incredibly easy to disrupt and it's not cheese, it's synergy.

Like giving a low WS/I unit Speed of Light is actually what it's designed for. Casting it on Bloodletters would be a waste, you cast it on Saurus.

Seems like all of Mathew Wards codexes/army books age quickly
Looking at you grey knights.

Well, as has been said, it's incredibly broken if used together well. Daemon player I used to go against tabled every opponent without sweating EVERY match to the point I was the only one who would play him, and only because I wanted to win against his unbeatable army.

And a well put together demon list with all its 'moving parts' will be rather difficult for a 'take all comers' list to deal with.

Lvl 2 lore masters everywhere, awesome lords/heroes, bloodletters are insane with their herald, as are most units.


Basically, there was a reason fantasy was re-booted so drastically, and demons have still kept a lot of the cheese.


Von Chogg


P.S Can ya tell I'm bitter?

Their Lords are crap. Only Khairos is worth his points, the others are Unstable dragons with a 5+ ward instead of scaly skin for +200pts. A soulgrinder is almost as fighty as DoC Lords but costs 200pts less. Whatever awesome DoC armies are tabling everyone who comes aren't using Lords. Cuz someone somewhere is going to have war machines and/or spells.

DoC are mediocre casters at best, I don't know why people think otherwise. No +PD. +2 to cast only. And 140 to get that lvl 2 caster minimum with no other items. Yes, they are Loremasters and get a free 5+ ward, but having an army with 18 spells doesn't matter if you are only +2 to cast.

Bloodletters are generally the 1 trick. It's not much of a trick, you put them on the table and they kill stuff. But there's just as simple counter tricks. Ironfist Ogres smush 'em, for instance.

I'm with Duke on this one. Daemons used to be pretty damn frustrating back in 7th, in the days of Hero- and Monsterhammer. Mainly because their Characters are their monsters; A Keeper with the soul-eating ability, without step-up, was absolutely killer.

Daemons currently still place in tournaments more frequently than most other races, even when used by semi new players. They are up there with Lizardmen in overall power. Not as overpowered as they were in 7th but still amazing due to their core, and heros.

I did forget that it's POSSIBLE to get +PD and +cast. You have to use a Herald for each +1PD though. But I posted on this, you could conceivably get Khairos and like 3 heralds and Blue Scribes and be a min of +6 to cast and +3PD a turn (+Herald channel, +channel for the horrors they are bunkered in) and however many the opponent casts via Blue Scribes and can use TZ lore to get an extra D3+1 dice when you start running out. Only Khairos could take advantage of that and it would be insanely cheesy. And I'm not sure what point value the army would be but it would need to be a lot.

But you can do similar things in other armies with Herdstones and Heirotitan/casket etc.

I think Khairos cant be included unless the games around 3.1k+ now, not too sure his point value, I'm at work and dont have my book with me. It would be pretty entertaining to run the army built like that though. However I don't see your opponent shaking your hand after said shenanigans.