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Now that I'm almost done with my mech guard list (just a couple Forgeworld models left to get), I'm starting a marine army. Here's my thoughts:

This is for Vanilla marines: Kind of a fluffy Crimson Fists build, but unfortunately my marines are pre-heresy World Eaters lol. I however love Sternguard, so I'm going to run a counts as Pedro, World Eaters captain (Fun opportunity to make a badass looking gladiator captain).

HQ:
*Librarian- Null zone, Gate of infinity
-100 Points

*Pedro Cantor
-175 Points

Elites:
*Sternguard x10
-Combi melta x3, Combi flamer x3, Plasma cannon x2, power weapon, Rhino
-350 Points

*Sternguard x10
-Lascannon x2, Combi-melta x3, Combi-flamer x3, Power weapon, Rhino
-360 Points

*Sternguard x5
-Combi-melta x5, Rhino
-185 Points

Troops:
*Tactical squad x10
-Plasma gun, Multi-melta, Power fist, Rhino
-240 Points

*Scouts x5
-Power weapon, Combat blades, Combi melta
-115 Points

*Scouts x5
-Power weapon, Combat blades, Combi melta
-115 Points

Fast attack:
*Land Speeder Storm
-Multi-melta
-65 points

*Land Speeder Storm
-Multi-melta
-65 points

Heavy Support:
*Vindicator
-115 points

*Vindicator
-115 points

The plan is an armoured spearhead comprised of the Sternguard in the Rhinos moving forward to objectives/torrent units w/ special ammo. The Librarian and Pedro tag along in the smaller Sternguard Rhino, and the Librarian casts Null zone to make sure the vengeance rounds really tear up w/e is getting shot at. He also has Gate, so if needed that squad can teleport to somewhere where they're needed (rapid firing special ammo or combi's at something that needs to die).

*The Sternguard squads also have 2 heavy weapons that can combat squad and stay in cover on a home objective and provide heavy weapon fire support (Sternguard w/ 2 heavy weapons combat squaded is actually cheaper than devastators combat squaded), while the other 5 run out in the Rhino's on the offensive.

*The sternguard are backed up by a tactical squad in a rhino with a plasma gun/multimelta to be used as a midfield bunker or w/e purposes I would need for 10 scoring marines.

*Next I have two 5 man scout squads in land speeder storms with multimeltas (I don't care what people say, I like the idea of scouting and fast skimmer transports and I think it's an under utilized model). The scouts have combat blades, a combi-melta (popping an annoying vehicle like a manticore or a transport before assaulting occupants) and power weapon for bullying weak CC models. The idea of this is I have a multimelta land speeder which carries a scoring unit that guys can assault out of. If your arguing that its very fragile, my counter argument, is that if they're shooting the land speeders their target priority sucks. If they don't the scouts/speeders are going to kill something important. Alternative, I could just hide the speeders/keep them away until turn 4 when I flat out to an object and turn 5 jump out and go to ground on it.

*Finally I have 2 vindicators that tag along with the Rhinos to pwn anything that comes close/act as fire magnets so that my sternguard can get in rape range.

I've been thinking about converting this list to Blood Angels, I think they might be more inline with the World Eaters than codex marines. Pedro as an ally allows ALL Sternguard (BA) to be scoring, so I can run 2 from the BA codex and 1 from Pedro's. I would tweak a few things, like maybe add a storm raven (I own 2), fast Rhinos/vindicators AND definitely sanguinary priests. However for now I think this list is pretty solid and I would like feedback from the community before I start buying all this stuff (I already own about a third of whats on this list).

I hadn't every considered combat squading heavy weapon armed Sternguard,

Interesting hook? I may have to steak the idea

Nice list. i too never thought of combat squading sternguard...

i would make 1 suggestion though. drop the speeders. the only thing they will do for your army is provide a pretty fireworks show when they explode in a blaze of glory. you want fast moving multi-meltas? take attack bikes. cheaper and a hell of alot more durable.

Storms aren't bad and they do offer more than just the MM, depending on your game meta the jammer and beacon can be more useful. and people tend to forget about those things giving them one heck of a headache when something ends up dropping to close. They will also allow the Libby to Gate safely, which can deliver stern guard to lay down the pain.

Bolter fire, even with special ammo, does a lot better when done in large amounts. I would plan on keeping your squads together. Sternguard have the advantage that you can field them in 9 man squads and still get your toys, unlike tactical squads which need to be full at 10 before they get anything. I'd take advantage of this and put the librarian and pedro each with one of the full squads in rhinos. Drop the heavies from those squads.

Take your 5 man squad and give them the big guns, and upgrade their ride to a razorback for extra firepower.

I don't own one, so am not 100% on the rules, but I think the LSS is open topped, so everyone can shoot out. Have you thought about bolters rather then CC weapons? You give up the option to assault after firing, but gain a lot of mobile harassment fire. Shotguns would be a compromise. The sarge is going to be doing most of the work in CC anyway.

Overall, a solid list.

I appreciate the feedback guys. I'm not going to always combat squad the sternguard. But plasma cannons for 10 points a pop on the sternguard and lascannons for 15 is too good to pass up. Especially since I feel this list is lacking heavy weapons. This is designed to be an all comers list and the 10 man sternguard squads move up together in the Rhino, OR if there is alot of vehicles, combat squad and I basically have a scoring devastator squad with special ammo if anything gets close.
I completely overlooked using the storm as a driveby platform lol. I'm strongly considering the bolters idea with a heavy bolter (snap fire hellfire rounds). I'll tweak the list a little bit and put an updated version up.

Pedro does not allow BA Sternguard to score. You have to trade combat tactics for Chapter Tactics to get Hold the Line. BA's don't have combat tactics.

Blood Angels do have combat tactics. The rule says all units in your army, so RAW you're blood angel sternguard would gain hold the line since allies are part of your army.

 IndigoJack wrote:
Blood Angels do have combat tactics. The rule says all units in your army, so RAW you're blood angel sternguard would gain hold the line since allies are part of your army.

The FAQ fixed this, it now says anything from Codex Marines with combat tactics, same thing with every other rule you could possibly want to use on some other army. Made being Battle Brothers pretty much useless. Made my Sisters + Vulcan armies not possible. As vulcans ability didn't require you to have combat tactics to get the twin linking but that is no more

You might want to check the FAQ again, there is no mention of Pedro's chapter tactics applying only to C:SM. Also, this may be interpretation but the rule says combat tactics are exchanged for stubborn and sternguard gain hold the line. To me it seems like they would still be scoring even if you couldn't change combat tactics for stubborn. I'm fairly confident this will be FAQ'd in the future though.

You have to exchange Combat Tactics for Chapter Tactics, hence why there is no mention of it only applying to CSM, because only vanilla Marines have combat tactics.

The paragraph clearly says you get Stubborn AND Sternguard get Hold the Line. If you don't exchange, or get Pedro's Chapter Tactics, then you don't get get HTL.

You should take a look again, blood angels do in fact have combat tactics

BA dont have combat tactics, we have DoA, Red Thirst, combat squad and ATSKNF.

um... oops. I was definitely looking in the wrong codex >.< Aside from looking like an a**, I still think pedro can make blood angel sternguard scoring. If you look at it like a logical argument, it can be interpreted like the following:

if pedro then ("replace combat tactics with stubborn" and "sternguard gain hold the line" )

distribute the if:
(if pedro then "replace combat tactics with stubborn" ) and (if pedro sternguard are scoring" )

The sternguard as a scoring unit statement holds true even if combat tactics can't be replaced with stubborn.

It seems like a lot of people are interpreting it as
If (pedro and "replace combat tactics with stubborn" ) then "sternguard count as scoring"

RAW, pedro allows sternguard to score even if they don't have combat tactics. There was a Nova list that took advantage of this same loop hole.

Like I said before, I'm sure it will be FAQ'd but as of write now, it's legal.

 IndigoJack wrote:
um... oops. I was definitely looking in the wrong codex >.< Aside from looking like an a**, I still think pedro can make blood angel sternguard scoring. If you look at it like a logical argument, it can be interpreted like the following:

if pedro then ("replace combat tactics with stubborn" and "sternguard gain hold the line" )

distribute the if:
(if pedro then "replace combat tactics with stubborn" ) and (if pedro sternguard are scoring" )

The sternguard as a scoring unit statement holds true even if combat tactics can't be replaced with stubborn.

It seems like a lot of people are interpreting it as
If (pedro and "replace combat tactics with stubborn" ) then "sternguard count as scoring"

RAW, pedro allows sternguard to score even if they don't have combat tactics. There was a Nova list that took advantage of this same loop hole.

Like I said before, I'm sure it will be FAQ'd but as of write now, it's legal.

I think your way of interpeting RAW is a bit off, as is your interpetation of how to read these rules. " If you include Pedro Kantor then all units in your army exchange Combat Tactics for the Stubborn universal special rule and your Sternguard Veteran squads gain the Hold the Line! special rule detailed below."

RAW means looking at how the rules are...well...written, and then applying them exactly as such. RAW Boltgun Rapid Fire 2 means they can shoot twice up to 12 and once up to 24.

So let's dissect the above line. If you have Pedro, then all units in your army exchange the Combat Tactics special rule for the Stubborn usr ( my abbreviation). Pretty simple, I think we all agree that If Pedro/exchange Combat tactics then Stubborn.

Now the next part of the line.

And your SGV ( my abbreviation) gain the HTL ( sic) special rule detailed below.

Now let's rewrite the rule a bit by cutting part out.

" If you include Pedro Kantor then all units in your army exchange Combat Tactics (and) your Sternguard Veteran squads gain the Hold the Line! special rule detailed below."

Bam. Clearly, you must have Combat Tactics to gain HTL. It's not a blanket if you have Pedro you have HTL. SGV get Stubborn and HTL, hence the and in the sentence. The And ties the act of getting Stubborn and HTL together to the requirement that you must exchange Combat Tactics. When you do an If Then statement, the IF part must be true for the then part to be true. It's not If you have Pedro, it's then you exchange Combat Tactics for X and you also get Y.

I don't really see anything in this list that tells me they are pre-heresy World Eaters... even in pre-heresy times, they were known for going into melee with chainswords and chain-axes (example: Istvaan III) to better cause a massacre. I'd use the Blood Angels codex to represent this, if it were me, so I could get Assault marines as troops. I would just drop the jump packs.

I'd use the Templar rules to represent Pre-Heresy World Eaters. With Blood Angels, you have a 1 in 6 chance to get FA or you have to take a Sanguinary Priest, and there's nothing in the WE fluff that has anything like that. ( if you want to be fluffy and represent how they would fight, which IMHO means some kind of HtH boost).

With Templar rules, you still get the assault troops on foot/vehicle/pod, and with the vows they have Rage, which is perfect for WE. You could paint up the Emperor's Champion to represent Kharn.

Ooh... I like that idea better

You'll want something to deal with flyers.
You may as well bring allies as you have 2 HQs.
Combiflamers are not that great given you have special ammo.
They scouts will want meltabombs.
Why do you have the tactical marines?

Interesting but good list. Will sometimes struggle but has a lot of potential

My plans are to eventually get enough assault troops to make a World Eaters army that runs primarily assault squads (modeled with axes). I mainly started this because of the forgeworld Horus Heresy books and will be primarily using them for that, but I figured I might as well make a codex list out of it too (I've been wanting to make a scoring sternguard list for a while), I don't care if it isn't fluffy, I have my Horus Heresy rules for fluffy games/lists, and once this list is finished I'll buy some assault squads and make a proper World Eaters army using BA rules.

New list with allies:
HQ:
*Pedro Cantor
-175 Points

Elites:
*Sternguard x9
-Combi melta x3, power weapon, Rhino
-300 Points

*Sternguard x10
-Lascannon x2, Combi-melta x2, Power weapon, Rhino
-340 Points

*Sternguard x5
-Combi-melta x5, Rhino
-185 Points

Troops:
*Scouts x5
-Power weapon, Combat blades, Combi melta
-115 Points

*Scouts x5
-Power weapon, Combat blades, Combi melta
-115 Points

Fast attack:
*Land Speeder Storm
-Multi-melta
-65 points

*Land Speeder Storm
-Multi-melta
-65 points

Heavy Support:
*Vindicator
-115 points

*Vindicator
-115 points

ALLIES: DARK ANGELS

HQ:
*Belial
- Lightning Claws.
-130 points

Troops:
*Deathwing Terminator squad - TH/SS, CML, Apothecary (does not replace th/ss, I've looked this up), Banner.
-235 points

TOTAL: 2000 points

Let me now what you think, I replaced the tactical squad, librarian and a few combi's for the deathwng squad (deep strikes turn 1, fearless, FNP and +1 attack for banner which also doesn't replace TH/SS).

After much discussion, and a consultation with an ex military journalist and an English professor, I am changing my position on Pedro and Sternguard. He allows Blood Angel SGV to score.

I admit when I am wrong.

BTW I just did a list up using Belial and Deathwing as allies.....I think for a backline or flank objective holding unit, DW Terminators with stormshields are fantastic.

I had a great game with them in a guard army the other week. It fills a gap that alot of armies are missing and with the CML is actually pretty versatile. Belial with lightning claws at i5 is kind of fun too.

Not sure where the deathwing come into it all.
They would well with drop pods or razorbacks, just not seeing them work that well with rhinos.

You are still not going to be hitting flyers.

The idea of this mechanized/LS storm list is for everything on a Rhino chassis to flat out turn 1. The speeders will move 12" and fire their multimeltas, and the vindicators will move 18" and be right in your face for a turn 2 shot (this is assuming there's nothing juicy within range turn 1). The deathwing squad comes down turn 1 with a CML (side armor with 2 krak missiles) and if not dealt with will certainly kill something important turn 2. This list is designed to overwhelm the opponent's target priority and since most of it hits pretty hard, alot of your opponent's things are going to get destroyed. There is a weakness to flyers here I admit, I'm thinking about trying to squeeze in a storm talon with lascannons.

I am confused, I thought that you could use allies to bring an outside element into your force, however, you could not use chapter specific rules to enhance an allied chapter troop choice?