2000 Ethereal Counts

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**Vindicare-Obsession**

Ethereal Counts 1997/2000

Lord: 375
Master Necromancer W/Master of the Dead, Corpse Cart {unholy lodestone}, Black Periapt, Talisman of Preservation

Hero: 285
Tomb Banshee (95)
Tomb Banshee (95)
Tomb Banshee (95)

Core: 520
Skeletons X30 W/Banner, Musician, Spears (170)
Skeletons X31 W/Banner, Musician, Spears (175)
Skeletons X31 W/Banner, Musician, Spears (175)

Special: 768
Hexwraiths X10 W/Hellwraith (310)
Hexwraiths X10 W/Hellwraith (310)
Vargheist X3 W/Vargoyle (148)

So the inherent flaws in this list are well known to me (Daemons being the most obvious). My question is, other than daemons is there anything else I should be on the lookout for? As well as is their anything I should change?

The baseline plan is to use the Vargheist unit to quell siege engines quickly (They will probably be the last unit set up). The Tomb Banshees will be riding with the skeletons, acting as their "Champion" if you would, while the necromancer on corpse cart rides around the backfield keeping them alive and wreaking havoc with necromancy. The Hexwraiths are going to be my hardest hitters I belive and I dont think they should have a problem putting the hammer to most units as they are ethreal with greatweapons that ignore armor (Not to mention the damage they cause by running through a unit). Questions? Comments? Concerns? Dirty Remarks? Almsot all would be appreciated. (Emphasis on the almost)

**jonolikespie**

Canons will clean up your necromancer in 1 shot.

**Vindicare-Obsession**

It will take at least two since he is chariot mounted

That being said, the Vargheist should be handling cannons.

**Ineedvc2500**

U need at least 1 more caster. Fun idea with ethereal. Wish vamps could be (i miss 7th) ethereal. If your necro dies its game over tho. Him being on cart will draw alot of fire. Better to bunker him in unit for look out sir. Imho id drop cart for 1 more necro. A vamp with Aura of dark majesty would combo with banshees too. Inherentvweaknesses is that VC relies to heavily on lords

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yea one more thing...drop the paripet you are going to be using sll your dice every turn

**Vindicare-Obsession**

Perapit is more for me conserving the dispell dice that I dont use but its an intresting outlook. I'll definately look at that.

From my understanding, having a necromancer in the back field on a corpse cart was a safe bet. I was under the impression that if the cart went down he jumped out of it. After that I figuered he could bunker down in a unit.

If I was wrgon then I'll definately drop it for another necro. Might just kill him alltogether and take kremmler.

**Ineedvc2500**

Oooh yea i like the kremmler. Im pretty sure that since CC is not a ridden monster the rider would die

**HawaiiMatt**

Swap 3 banshees for 4 wraith characters.
keep the cart, but put the necro lord on foot.
Split 1 skeleton unit into 2 units of 15. You can use the invoke to make them bigger.
Swap vargiests for 3 units of 1 spirit hosts, more ethereal goodness.

The list would play better with a mortis engine(or 2). I'd add them in for larger games.

-Matt

**Vindicare-Obsession**

Ineedvc2500 wrote:
Oooh yea i like the kremmler. Im pretty sure that since CC is not a ridden monster the rider would die

I could've sworn that I'd read somewhere that a Chariot worked the same way as a ridden monster when destroyed.....
I'll have to look it up but you can be assured that if I am mistaken the necromancer on cc dies in list making and not on the battlefield

Now, looking at what matt said, I was actually toying with the idea of dropping the banshees for wraiths but I liked the banshee howl ability. If I do end up dropping the cc necromancer I will probably split the skeleton units down and take wraiths, as they would be cheaper, if not better characters to put in the units. I think I would drop the Vargheists in that case to make up the points difference but I dont really see the point in running single model spirit host units other than to offer them as free kill points.

I was considering the Mortis engine and in higher values its definately an idea to consider but its not etheral and I would be slightly scared of losing it to a stray (or not) cannonball, (it exploding on death is another reason I am hesitant to use it)

Edit*
Page 105- "If a character has taken a chariot as a mount, the whole model is treated as having the troop type "Chariot" and follows the rules for both characters and chariot models. characters riding chariots cannot join other units. A chariot mount otherwise follows all the rules for ridden monsters"

With this information come to light, is everyone still against running the necromancer on corpse cart?

**jegsar**

There is still a 1/3 chance it would be him instead of the chariot right?

**Ineedvc2500**

Good call vendi. Id keep him in unit for look out sir. On cart, line of sight is easier for your enemies. In unit you can block los with anothet unit. Id keep both but keep seperate

**Vindicare-Obsession**

He just seems really expensive right now....

I really just want to kick the cc and put in another necro but I'm not sure.

What would you guys say to me replacing the necromancer with kremmler, dropping varghoyles and using the excess points for another unit of 10 hexwraiths?

**Ineedvc2500**

Maybe do some finageling to add unit of wraiths instead of hexs Kinda like kremmlers body guards.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think kremmler is amazing but you will need another necro at least for dispell scroll and channeling

**HawaiiMatt**

Vindicare-Obsession wrote:
Ethereal Counts 1997/2000
So the inherent flaws in this list are well known to me (Daemons being the most obvious). My question is, other than daemons is there anything else I should be on the lookout for? As well as is their anything I should change?

Heinrich Kemmler (because he can go ethereal)
Necromancer, level 1, dispel scroll (dispel scroll is nice, extra channel and extra invoke is all good)
6x wraith characters (at 60 points a pop, these guys are awesome, 3S5 attacks or 1 attack that auto wounds with no armor save)
2x30 skeletons (one with banner of flame), because you seem to like skeletons.
2x20 zombies (music and standard) because you've got to have 500 points in core, and skeletons are better than zombies.
2x10 hex wraiths
2x spirit hosts

The only swap I'd consider is dropping 2 wraiths for a BSB. Ethereals is all about grinding them down before static combat res takes you out. BSB helps with that.

Don't take normal wraiths as a rare choice. They are only a little bit cheaper, but Kemmler can't join them (as per ethereal rule BRB). You're much better off loading up the front of your units with 2 wraiths each, which not only gives you some hitting power, but also absorbs hits from enemy rank and file. It often lets you win combat.

-Matt

**Vindicare-Obsession**

Ethereal Counts 2000/2000

Lord: 350
Heinrich Kremmler (350)

Hero: 500
Tomb Banshee (95)
Tomb Banshee (95)
Tomb Banshee (95)
Necromancer (Lore of Vampires) W/Level 2 Wizard, Channeling Staff (115)
Necromancer (Lore of Vampires) W/Level 2 Wizard (100)

Core: 530
Skeletons X30 W/Banner, Musician, Spears (175)
Skeletons X31 W/Banner, Musician, Spears (175)
Skeletons X31 W/Banner, Musician, Spears (175)

Special: 620
Hexwraiths X10 W/Hellwraith (310)
Hexwraiths X10 W/Hellwraith (310)

**Ineedvc2500**

Id run death on the off chance you get more dice

**Turalon**

Necromancers can't take lore of metal, just so you know.

Good idea, but can't do that. Just stick with lore of vampire on them and all should be good.

**Vindicare-Obsession**

So I think this will round down this list. I'm going to be playing a game alongside 2K of Archer Tomb Kings against Dwarves and High Elves. Im thinking I'm mostly geing to play base guard with the skeletons and Kremmler while the Etheral units take down high priority targets like cannons, bolt throwers and the like. He features 2 40 man archer units, one with high queen khalida and the razor standard. He uses 35 tomb guard to stand in front so that he can absorb a few charges and runs 2 caskets in the back field. He plays 3 liche priests so that he can cover all of his lore and Im thinking that we are going to be playing a fairly non-CC game.

Anyone got any advice?

**Vindicare-Obsession**

Ethereal Counts 2000/2000

Lord: 350
Heinrich Kremmler (350)

Hero: 115
Necromancer (Lore of Vampires) W/Level 2 Wizard, Channeling Staff (115)

Core: 510
Skeletons X31 W/Banner, Musician, Spears (175)
Skeletons X31 W/Banner, Musician, Spears (175)
Skeletons X30 W/Banner, Musician, Spears (170)

Special: 620
Hexwraiths X10 W/Hellwraith (310)
Hexwraiths X10 W/Hellwraith (310)

Rare: 400
Carin Wraiths X8

So Im 99% sure this is what I'm going into the game with. Thanks for the help everyone.