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I have been searching for a good special weapon compliment to my infantry blob that I tool for fire support w/ autocannon and place into cover usually near a home objective. They remain more or less static and hold a flank while my mobile elements take the fight to the enemy.

I have used meltas (never get to shoot), Flamers (never get to shoot unless charged, snipers (ineffective, though with some utility against monstrous creatures), plasma (expensive and love to self immolate). I found that the best compliment is the lowly Grenade Launcher.

I can compliment the AC anti-transport role with more shots at STR6,(possibly but not reliably glancing AV12), put reliable wounds on infantry with either frag against hordes or krak against tougher opponents. Most importantly they can fire usually from the start of the game as they are assault allowing me to reposition as my unit takes casualties and need to filling gaps in my coherency.

The movement thing i have found is the most important aspect of the deal. With new wound allocation rules you are forced to hide you special weapon troopers behind the lasgun wielding meat. This effectively reduces their range with weapons like the melta gun. Instead of having at the front of your line you are forced to bury them deeper in your DZ, which critically impacts the usefulness of the flamer and meltagun.


I know there is a lot of GL hate but I think they have uses, especially considering their cost.

Glocknall wrote:

I have used meltas (never get to shoot), Flamers (never get to shoot unless charged, snipers (ineffective, though with some utility against monstrous creatures), plasma (expensive and love to self immolate)

This is my problem with your post. Never getting to shoot meltas is something that is a problem for you only. Flamers are there to only be used for over-watch. Saying you only get to shoot them on over-watch is like saying you only get given money when you go to work.

Snipers I agree with, plasma I agree with too, unless you take allies for prescience...

How many shots per game do you get out of your infantry blobs w/ melta, 1 or 2? Vets in chimeras and Valks can bring melta to bear with much better precision without being burdened with the footprint of a blob squad.

Second as my post above states bringing melta to bear means you expose them. 12" means you must move them to the front of your infantry blob, meaning the meltas are not long for this world, especially if you're trying to get in melta range.

Meltas to me are much better in mobile delivery systems than in blob squads unless your pushing up the field with them as a CC/ Close range shooting unit.

Glocknall wrote:

I can compliment the AC anti-transport role with more shots at STR6,(possibly but not reliably glancing AV12), put reliable wounds on infantry with either frag against hordes or krak against tougher opponents. Most importantly they can fire usually from the start of the game as they are assault allowing me to reposition as my unit takes casualties and need to filling gaps in my coherency.

Well, this is where everything falls apart. The GL is bad against vehicles (S6...), barely scratches hordes (with S3 and only the small blast) and terrible against tougher opponents (8 GL shots to bring down 1 MEQ...). You can't even say that "Heh, I will roll lucky!" because then you can roll lucky with your plasma guns too. It is only good when you take it in HUGE numbers (like 20-30 GLs), otherwise it will be more dangerous to you as you as it will give you a false chance to hurt something (and when it fails as it usually does, then you will be in a big trouble).

Just forget that poor thing. Take flamers or snipers instead, if you need special weapons but you don't like meltas/plasmas.

Str 6 isnt bad vs light transports AV 10-11, it can contribute with ACs v AV12. Against hordes the GL is fine with its str 3 blast. You usually can get 2-3 hits with it against large hordes. Against eldar, and GEQ it performs fine.

Again as a support weapon with a infantry blob it compliments well.

I tend to use grenade launchers in my units as its cheap and multi purpose wepon, a bit like a weaker missile launcher

AtoMaki wrote: (8 GL shots to bring down 1 MEQ...)

What math are you doing?!

Glocknall wrote:
How many shots per game do you get out of your infantry blobs w/ melta, 1 or 2?

Yes once or twice. For 10 points I generally kill an MEQ, TEQ or take a wound off an MC. Occasionally it even kills on over-watch. The melta easily makes its points back by shooting twice, and if the dice rolls are on your side, in one shot.

When using grenade launchers, I generally shot slightly more, but when it hit, nothing happened. The str3 wall of death isn't all that either. The grenade launcher, rarely makes its points cost back. Even though it is less than that of a melta.

Glocknall wrote:
Str 6 isnt bad vs light transports AV 10-11, it can contribute with ACs v AV12. Against hordes the GL is fine with its str 3 blast. You usually can get 2-3 hits with it against large hordes. Against eldar, and GEQ it performs fine.

Again as a support weapon with a infantry blob it compliments well.

4 shots for a single HP loss against AV10? 20 shots for a single Exploded result (against AV10 again, but hey, you will Wreck it sooner)? Paint me unimpressed on the anti-vehicle front.

And 2-3 hits mean nothing with S3. Thats barely 1 dead GEQ... From the 30-40 blob... And any decent horde players will simply spread out a little bit, so you will feel lucky with 2 hits (0.66 dead GEQ). Its even worse againts the real 6th ed hordes (Green Tide and Necron Warrior blobs).

So yeah, the GL is simply a crappy weapon that has synergy and versatility, but it is still a crappy weapon. If you want a good support weapon then look at the plasma gun or the sniper rifle 8if you don't want plasmas).

 KplKeegan wrote:

AtoMaki wrote: (8 GL shots to bring down 1 MEQ...)

What math are you doing?!

8 shots - 4 hits - 3 wounds - 1 dead MEQ

I would just like to agree with the common consensus, that the gl is not worth it. I used to be a fan...then I started running more melta and forgot about it quickly after.

Sure, melta does not fire every turn, but yes I still put melta in my IS's with AC's. Call me crazy, but I tend to find my IS's dont last as long as they used to. They get shot at and guardsmen fall, thats a part of being an IG player you get used to. But once I start to lose guardsmen I dont want the IS's to be come worthless. I use the AC towards the beginning of games and as I lose guardsmen advance with the melta gun.

One IS by itself will not make much of a difference, but 4-5 supported by some vets, leman russes, command squads, vendettas, and deep striking ST's. They become useful again.

Even last game, I had a signle melta gunner falling back, he happened to come nto range of a loan terminator inquisitor and fired his melta gun. Scored a 6 to hit and 4 to wound, that inquisitor, who could have torn everything up, was saved because I chose melta over gl.

Yes, you can roll lucky with gl, or you can use strategy and clever placement of your melta guns/plasma guns and when needed, roll lucky with them as well.

Yeah, a melta hedge is a strategy to keep vehicles off your half of the board. A GL hedge is not going to do anything, strategically speaking. The number of units it threatens is so low compared to most other special weapons, that it's little more than a waste of points.

There is exactly one place that I'm starting to begrudgingly accept that GLs can be worth it, and that's in groups of 3 or 4 (like in those otherwise worthless PCSs) to threaten fliers, but that's about it.

I can agree with the OP that GL's are commonly overlooked with guard. This is probably due mostly to the meta of different game areas. If you play in a mech crazy meta then it is unlikely that GL will ever do anything for you. The GL is a humble and cheap weapon, you shouldn't expect to use it for the same things that you would a melta. In my experience the best place for a GL is in a unit of mobile out flankers. As stated by some above, in groups of 3 - 4 (SWS, or PCS) they can actually do SOME damage. With the bring it down order, they can glance/pen rear armor on most things reliably, and even bring down open-topped vehicles. (twin linking against flyers works well too). This is where the 24" range shines.

That being said, you wont ever find yourself wishing you'd brought more (like you may with melta if you brought those GLs). And even when done right they tend to be less fear inspiring then flamers.

So are they worth bringing? if you only have 20 points to upgrade a PCS... 4 GL over 2 melta I'd take, but thats usually it.
Another sometimes interesting place is in a squad with krak grenades. (fire off a bunch of rounds, throw some grenades and then assault with grenades) it can spell doom to vehicle squads which get too close.

GL is effective against the 5th ed meta. Adding 30 points of them to a list will generate a hp loss per turn (50/50 if it's. A glance or pen) when fighting against av11 spam.

The problems with gl is the 6th ed meta is very different, and while av11 spam isn't dead and remains competitive many many other armies are competitive so av11 spam is not the meta anymore. The other big problem with the gl is each one takes away a flashlight, and the cost of a gl is the same as adding a flashlight. The true cost of 6gl is 12 flashlights, and against every t value from 3 to 6 frf2rf flashlights will out perform gl, and in many cases they will out perform gl without orders.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Math hammer 2 flashlights v 1 grenade launcher.

T6
2 Flashlights 1/2 hit 1/6 wound=1/6=16.7%
Double tap=33.3%
Triple tap=50%
1 gl=1/2 hit 1/2 wound=25%

T5
Flashlights same as t6
Gl=1/2 hit 2/3 wound=33%

T4
Single tap pair of flashlights 1/2 hit 1/3 wound=33%
Double tap=66%
Triple tap=100%
Gl 1/2 hit 5/6 wound=41.6%

T3
Single tap pair 1/2 hit 1/2 wound=50%
Double tap=100%
Triple tap=150%
Gl=same as t4

I agree with Ailaros, GLs don't have a place in line squads. It's Melta or Plasma if you have the points and the models or Flamers - cheap and good at what they do.

I've always went by the motto that buying grenade launchers for tank hunting is like buying Guardsmen for their lasguns.

Madness.

I usually end up taking them when I've got nothing better I can think of, but I'll probably end up switching them all to snipers or heavy weapons soon. They just don't do anything worthwhile. If they came free with infantry squads, MAYBE I'd take them. But until then, they're outshone by literally every other special weapon.

It's the jack of all trades, master of none, except it's not even really average against most targets. Against another foot IG army, or another horde army, they MIGHT pull their weight, but it will be the exception, rather than the norm.

Which sucks, because every IG player I know has made at least 6 or so guardsmen holding those things and all they get to do is sit in the case every game