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Game with Shaun yesterday. He's rocking a full on mech list, one which I originally wrote, which he has tweaked. Should be interesting as this list has everything.

Chaos Daemons - 2,000 points

HQ

Herald of Tzeentch - chariot of tzeentch, master of sorcery, we are legion & bolt of tzeentch
Herald of Tzeentch - chariot of tzeentch, master of sorcery, we are legion & bolt of tzeentch
Herald of Tzeentch - chariot of tzeentch, master of sorcery, we are legion & bolt of tzeentch
The Masque

Elite

5 x Flamers of Tzeentch
5 x Flamers of Tzeentch
5 x Flamers of Tzeentch

Troops

10 x Plaguebearers of Nurgle
10 x Plaguebearers of Nurgle
5 x Plaguebearers of Nurgle
5 x Plaguebearers of Nurgle

Fast Attack

6 x Screamers of Tzeentch
6 x Screamers of Tzeentch

Heavy Support

Soul Grinder - phlegm
Soul Grinder - phlegm
Soul Grinder - phlegm

Imperial Guard - 2,000 points

HQ

Company Command Squad w/ Chimera - 4 x plasma guns & Commander w/ plasma pistol

Troops

Veterans w/ Chimera - 3 x meltaguns
Veterans w/ Chimera - 3 x meltaguns
Veterans w/ Chimera - 3 x meltaguns
Veterans w/ Chimera - 3 x plasma guns
Veterans w/ Chimera - 3 x plasma guns
Veterans w/ Chimera - 3 x plasma guns

Fast Attack

Hellhound
Vendetta

Heavy Support

Hydra Flak Tank Battery
Leman Russ Demolisher - heavy bolter sponsons & lascannon
Manticore Rocket Launcher

Mission: Hammer + Anvil & Big Guns Never Tire. Night fighting is on.

Warlord Traits: Daemons - re-roll reserves Guard - -1 to enemy reserves

Deployment

I won the roll off for table sides, I picked the table side with less open space giving Shaun the one with more space to deploy in. This might seem a benefit for him, but it allows me to deep strike without many mishaps. I lost the roll off for deployment and Shaun decided to go first.

Shaun deploys with the Chimeras in multiple lines. Demolisher is at the front while Manticore sits in a ruin. Hydra (turret less tank) is at the front.

Objectives had been placed with one in the same ruin as the Manticore, on in a large ruin on Shaun's right flank, one in each bottom corner of my flanks.

* Note Vendetta is not deployed and some Rhinos are proxy Chimeras.





* Tactical Notes

Everything in this Guard army is a threat, well almost everything, the Hydra doesn't bother me. Meltas can easily rock up and nuke my Soul Grinders, plasmas and lasguns and deplete my Flamers and Screamers while the large blast templates and flamer templates take out my Plaguebearers.

I need to act fast and do it right. I will drop down and attack the Manticore, this will clear the way for Plaguebearers. I'll tackle plasma units first, as melta units I can avoid for the time being, plus Soul Grinders are in my second wave.

Turn 1

Shaun rolls forward and pops smoke on everything.

I split my waves and get my prefered wave (Screamers, Flamers & Tzeentch Heralds). Eyeball Paul drops by the side of the Manticore and lands on target. Five-Face drops nearby to support while Chicken-Man drops further away, he can tackle Chimeras leading the spear. Flamers drop right in front of the vehicles leading the spear, they can catch mulitple vehicles, but they scatter backwards and flamer templates will not be in range :(. Other two units drop in, one by Paul, they scatter in terrain and one dude fails dangerous terrain save. Other unit lands by the Hydra and a melta Chimera. Screamers both land by Chicken-Man.

Shooting; Screamers go flat out, one unit slices up the CCS Chimera and it is wrecked while another slices open a melta Chimera. Flamers partly in the ruin burn a melta Chimera and catch the Hydra; Chimera is wrecked (squad passes pinning test) and Hydra loses a hull point. Other Flamers bbq the exposed melta-vets and the Hydra, but they do rubbish and only kill two Veterans and fail to do anything on the tank. Paul blasts the Manticore, it gets cover as in a ruin, but Shaun fails and the tank is stunned. Other Heralds blast into side armour of Chimeras but only score glances or smoke saves. Flamers which scattered run to spread themselves out, I suspect a demolisher shell and inferno cannon is going to get them next turn!









* Tactical Notes

Not a bad first turn; I've got first blood and took out two Chimeras, one of those is the CCS and that unit cannot escape my Screamers. If the Screamers get killed, then the CCS will just end up getting taken out by Flamers. Was a good job I fired the Heralds first to take off hull points as the Screamers did the job and finished off the already damage tanks.

Next turn I'll use Flamers to bbq the melta unit while Screamers multi assault Shaun's packed tanks. Heralds will just keep blasting while the Manticore will be blasted at again.

Turn 3

Vendetta rolls on and blasts up the table over the heads of the Heralds.

Armour rolls up forwards towards the Flamers which scattered, while other vehicles reposition so not auto hit in assault and the hull flamers can auto hit.

Shooting; Commander issues fire on my target to his own unit and FRFSRF to melta unit. Melta unit blasts the Screamers, but I do well on jink saves and a single Screamer dies while another takes a wound. CCS blasts the Screamers in front of them and five remain and another on a single wound. Demolisher, Hellhound and Vendetta wipe out the unit of scattered Flamers. Lasguns, multi lasers and plasma guns blast Chicken-Man, he now has two wounds left. Flamers which landed by the Hydra get blasted by heavy flamer, multi laser, lasguns and melta along with autocannons and two die and one has a single wound remaining.

Daemons roll for reserves and everything shows up except for the Masque and a Soul Grinder. Unit of 10 Plaguebearers land to reinforce Paul, plus an objective is in the ruin by the Manticore, the Plagues scatter off the board and end up back in reserve. The other unit of 10 lands on target in the same place. The two units of Plaguebearers land on target by the other two objectives. Soul Grinders drop in, I put them in risky places (should have dropped these first so more room), but they land ok.

Screamers fly over the wrecked melta Chimera and get ready to chow down multiple Chimeras. Flamers reposition so can cover maximum Veteran units who are on foot.

Shooting; Flamers bbq both Veteran units and both units are wiped out; that's created a nice hole. Paul wrecks the Manticore, no more nasty blasty. Other Heralds blast Chimeras, only one loses a hull point, though it is by the Screamers who will get it. Soul Grinder multi blasts two Chimeras, one which the Herald failed to damage, and takes off multiple hull points, while the other Soul Grinder takes out a plasma Chimera supporting the Demolisher, which had already taken damage from the previous Soul Grinder attack.

Assault; Screamers multi charge two Chimeras, one has lost a hull point thanks a Herald and it is wrecked while the other Chimera goes boom; few Screamers take a wound from shrapnel. Screamers chow down the CCS.









* Tactical Notes

While I've dealt Shaun a heavy blow this turn (4 tanks destroyed and three infantry squads), I am expecting to take a beating this turn. I failed to stop the unit of melta Veterans, who are just going to roll up to a Soul Grinder and nuke it. There's still enough fire power to destroy two units of Screamers and if Shaun does well, he can focus on the Flamers a bit too.

Next turn I'll go for the Demolisher, as it can wreck my Grinders easily; that's if my Grinders are remaining. I'll also tackle remaining melta units for the same reason. Flamers and Screamers will destroy infantry and vehicles.

Turn 3

Shaun hasn't got much options for the Vendetta, if he turns it 90 degrees then it cannot target anything. If he flies min 18" then all he can do is blast Plaguebearers, which isn't very useful. Instead he zooms it off the board and the 'Detta will auto arrive next turn.

Chimera carrying melta Veterans moves towards the painted Soul Grinder, unit bails out and moves up and is easily in 2D6 armour pen range; gulp! Veterans move and spread themselves out, well one unit does. Hellhound repositions so it can destroy Screamers.

Shooting; plasma Veterans and Hellhound erase a unit of Screamers. Two units of Veterans on foot blast the other Screamers and they are gone. Remaining fire power goes into the already weakened Flamer unit, two left now. Meltas in front of the painted Soul Grinder fire and all miss! Shocking! Demolisher blasts the unpainted Soul Grinder, but only scores crew shaken, which the Grinder ignores!

I forget to roll for the 10 man Plaguebearer unit and the Masque, but the last Soul Grinder arrives (proxied by Rhino) and lands to support the others.

Paul moves to the side armour of the Hydra while Chicken-Man and Five-Face move up to tackle the plasma Veterans. Painted Soul Grinder moves so at the side of the melta Veterans, they are nicely positioned to the vomit can puke on them. Unpainted Grinder rocks up towards the Demolisher. All Plaguebearers move towards objectives or capture objectives.

Shooting; painted Grinder pukes and blasts the Veterans, one remains and fails morale. Other Grinder blasts the Demolisher to try his luck and fails. Grinder which just arrived blasts the Chimera the melta Vets come out and it is toast. Heralds split fire into the plasma Veterans and Hellhound, Hound has two hull points left while half Veterans remain who fail morale and flee. Flamers bbq both Veteran units who were busted out their rides; Shaun now only has falling back infantry. Paul blasts the Hydra and it is smoked.









* Tactical Notes

Well, looks like the nail is in the coffin for Shaun. He has two infantry units left, both are falling back and one is only a model strong. Even if they do regroup they won't capture any objectives as they are not close enough and without a doubt will die next turn. Looks like Shaun's turn to hit back hard failed, mostly thanks to those meltas missing and the Demolisher failing to get a good roll on the damage table.

Turn 4

Vendetta zooms back on and aims at the painted Soul Grinder. Both troop units fail to regroup and fall back. Shooting wise the 'Detta blasts the painted Grinder, fails to do any damage. Larger Veteran unit blasts Eyeball Paul, but he passes both saves.

At this point Shaun concedes.

Daemons win.



Summary

Wow, utter carnage! In this case Shaun would have done better letting me go first. His army is all shooty and him letting me go second meant he lost a turn of shooting. While my Flamers didn't have a huge impact first turn, he still should have spread out his units as my Flamers got mulitple hits on multiple units. Not only that but the Screamers managed to multi assault as well. Also, if Shaun went second he would have got the benefit from night fighting, at least from the Heralds shooting.

Towards the end I realised Shaun had made the biggest boo. Because he had tweaked my original 2k list, he had infact took units out or swapped but not added anything. His list was almost 200 points under; that's another unit and a bit more some where.

I can't say I played perfectly myself. I forgot to roll for reserves the the unit of Plaguebearers which went back into reserve and forgot about the Masque. Also, while it didn't effect the game, I should drop down Soul Grinders first before any other units who come in via reserve, while I've got the room.

Nice report - I always tend to bring in grinders in my first wave against parking lot formations like the one here. The Large Blast can often grab 2 or 3 vehicle hits and if you get into a side arc of a chimera there is great damage potential

Daemons really do well against mech now - with points tied into vehicles that are easier to wreck in CC they can really diminish enemy firepower fast.

Are you still planning on keeping the tzeentch heralds in your list? After the FAQ's, I don't see them doing much to increase the resiliency of your flamers. I also don't see the 10-man plagues squads doing much of anything but sitting on objectives. If you want to fine-tune your list, consider swapping out the heralds for Fateweaver and the 10-man plague units for bolt horrors. And if you really want to make it even more competitive, swap out 1 grinder for the 3rd unit of screamers.

calypso2ts wrote:Nice report - I always tend to bring in grinders in my first wave against parking lot formations like the one here. The Large Blast can often grab 2 or 3 vehicle hits and if you get into a side arc of a chimera there is great damage potential

Daemons really do well against mech now - with points tied into vehicles that are easier to wreck in CC they can really diminish enemy firepower fast.

While that's a interesting idea, and would have a very good effect, it's probably something I wouldn't do. Reason is if the Soul Grinder's come down first turn, then my Flamers wouldn't be. Not only that, but there's a lot of anti armour on the field. Once the Grinder has fired, it will be blasted to bits next turn. When the Grinder comes in the second wave, the anti tank is thinned out and also distracted by Flamers, Screamers and Heralds. Plus, if I get a good deep strike landing spot, the Flamers can hit multiple targets .

You're right about Daemons vs mech. I honestly thought they would struggle, but breath of chaos just blasts hull points off as do Screamers when doing blade attacks and in close combat. Add the Heralds too and Soul Grinders smashing bunched up vehicles and they are tackling armour pretty well.

jy2 wrote:Are you still planning on keeping the tzeentch heralds in your list? After the FAQ's, I don't see them doing much to increase the resiliency of your flamers. I also don't see the 10-man plagues squads doing much of anything but sitting on objectives. If you want to fine-tune your list, consider swapping out the heralds for Fateweaver and the 10-man plague units for bolt horrors. And if you really want to make it even more competitive, swap out 1 grinder for the 3rd unit of screamers.

Thanks, dude, though tbh I am not looking to change the list.

Not sure if you read the report, but I do not run my Heralds with Flamers. In fact I can't as I have them on chariots, which means they are not I.Cs.

The 10 man Plaguebearers do not sit on objectives; that's the job for the 5 man units. The Plaguebearers tackle basic infantry and tarpit hammer units i.e Assault Terminators. I've had a unit of 10 last 4 turns of combat against a unit of 5 Hammernators .

If I took Fateweaver, then he will be dakka'd pretty quickly. I would also need icons to stop deep strike mishap, as everything or most my army needs to be within 6" of the chief chicken. Plus he's the only monstrous creature in the list.

I've tried Horrors before and I am not impressed. They are ok against xenos, but I find they are too expensive and also the bolt isn't worth it when you only have 50/50 chances to hit.

I've ran three units of five Screamers in the past. The third unit felt like a spare wheel. I know that six is only one more than five, but I found they last a little bit longer.

Well done! The amount of destruction you caused is amazing. You did get very lucky with the Meltas! Tough break for Shaun though! As always thank you for sharing.

 mercer wrote:

While that's a interesting idea, and would have a very good effect, it's probably something I wouldn't do. Reason is if the Soul Grinder's come down first turn, then my Flamers wouldn't be.

With the Heralds on Chariots that is definitely the case - I run my list a bit differently when I run Heralds. I have found that Grinders are a lot more resilient than given credit for.

 mercer wrote:

Not only that, but there's a lot of anti armour on the field. Once the Grinder has fired, it will be blasted to bits next turn. When the Grinder comes in the second wave, the anti tank is thinned out and also distracted by Flamers, Screamers and Heralds. Plus, if I get a good deep strike landing spot, the Flamers can hit multiple targets .

The Flamers tend to knock out the heaviest anti-tank and with 12 Screamers and ~20 flamers right in the opponents face, they never even fire at the grinder usually with those threats there. I understand though your list works differently.

 mercer wrote:

If I took Fateweaver, then he will be dakka'd pretty quickly. I would also need icons to stop deep strike mishap, as everything or most my army needs to be within 6" of the chief chicken. Plus he's the only monstrous creature in the list.

I am on the fence with Fateweaver, but remember that the units he is really protecting will be the Screamers and Flamers. If you drop Fate in first as a flyer - you can get a 2d6 run move if you do not shoot him. The Flamers are making risky Deep Strikes anyway and the odds of mishapping on Fate are actually pretty low. The Screamers can be 11" away from fate to start with and then do their flyby attack while grabbing a nice 4++.

As for Fate going down - he takes a surprising amount of firepower to rip out of the sky and then getting a wound through a 3++ rerollable save. It is naturally a matter of target priority too - shoot Fateweaver or the hungry screamers in front of you.

 mercer wrote:

I've tried Horrors before and I am not impressed. They are ok against xenos, but I find they are too expensive and also the bolt isn't worth it when you only have 50/50 chances to hit.

Horrors have improved greatly imo with the addition of Hull points. I run them in 5 man squads and usually 1 larger 9 man squad. While bolt is a 50/50 shot - the odds to wreck a Rhino vehicle with it (0.5*0.5*0.5 == 12.5%) is twice as good as a single Missile Launcher shot (0.67*0.5*0.167 == 5%). This does not account for the 12 Warpfire shots in a 5 man squad that tend to take at least 1 Hull Point from a vehicle. Combine that with a Flamer glance or a grinder template and you have a good shot of knocking out another vehicle.

I have been running both plagues and Horrors lately though - usually two 5 man plague units for objective camping - split up so I can more heavily stack my preferred wave.

Lovely table and very nice report. Great to see Tzeentch getting some love. There's an awful lot of Khorne and Nurgle armies out there after all.

eldartau1987 wrote:Well done! The amount of destruction you caused is amazing. You did get very lucky with the Meltas! Tough break for Shaun though! As always thank you for sharing.

Yes, extremely bad luck with those meltas for Shaun. On that turn I expect to lose that Soul Grinder along with the other and two Screamer units.

calypso2ts wrote:

With the Heralds on Chariots that is definitely the case - I run my list a bit differently when I run Heralds. I have found that Grinders are a lot more resilient than given credit for.

The Flamers tend to knock out the heaviest anti-tank and with 12 Screamers and ~20 flamers right in the opponents face, they never even fire at the grinder usually with those threats there. I understand though your list works differently.

I am on the fence with Fateweaver, but remember that the units he is really protecting will be the Screamers and Flamers. If you drop Fate in first as a flyer - you can get a 2d6 run move if you do not shoot him. The Flamers are making risky Deep Strikes anyway and the odds of mishapping on Fate are actually pretty low. The Screamers can be 11" away from fate to start with and then do their flyby attack while grabbing a nice 4++.

As for Fate going down - he takes a surprising amount of firepower to rip out of the sky and then getting a wound through a 3++ rerollable save. It is naturally a matter of target priority too - shoot Fateweaver or the hungry screamers in front of you.

Horrors have improved greatly imo with the addition of Hull points. I run them in 5 man squads and usually 1 larger 9 man squad. While bolt is a 50/50 shot - the odds to wreck a Rhino vehicle with it (0.5*0.5*0.5 == 12.5%) is twice as good as a single Missile Launcher shot (0.67*0.5*0.167 == 5%). This does not account for the 12 Warpfire shots in a 5 man squad that tend to take at least 1 Hull Point from a vehicle. Combine that with a Flamer glance or a grinder template and you have a good shot of knocking out another vehicle.

I have been running both plagues and Horrors lately though - usually two 5 man plague units for objective camping - split up so I can more heavily stack my preferred wave.

av13 is nice, but when there's 9 meltas, loads of plasma (ok can only glance) and some nasty templates, then the odds are against poor Soul Grinder. Less anti tank weapons on the field the stronger the chances of the Soul Grinder living.

That's how my list works too; people fire at the Screamers and Flamers instead of Grinders. I would just rather get Screamers down earlier so they can assault and make sure the coast is clear for Soul Grinders.

Well, if Fateweaver is protected Screamers and Flamers, then he must also deep strike close, at least for the Flamers. When I've faced Fatey in the past it has taken me a turn to kill him, but all my lists are heavy fire power. I also leave him to last. I cannot argue Fateweaver is cool, just he doesn't fit in my list nor what I want.

As I mentioned, I have used Pink Horrors and I didn't find them impressive. They are pretty expensive and really only good for xenos. I would rather have more resilent Plaguebearers and just bash things in close combat.

LeadLegion wrote:Lovely table and very nice report. Great to see Tzeentch getting some love. There's an awful lot of Khorne and Nurgle armies out there after all.

Thanks, dude. I don't really know what Daemon army is flavour of the month, but I do know the old Fatey flyer is doing the rounds.

My bad. I didn't realize that those chaos spawns were heralds on chariots. I was assuming from your previous reports that you were running them on disks with your flamers. That's what I getting for skimming the reports.

Honestly, I'm not that big on plaguebearers anymore. Now that cover is 5+, their FNP is only 5+ and they can't run, I'm more inclined to run pink horrors for some offense however pathetic their shooting is. I run only 1 or maybe 2 units of 5x plaguebearers only nowadays (unless I am running an Epidemius army). I mean, they can't even spread out on the turn they deepstrike in!

Sure Fatey may get dakka'd, but he's coming in swooping and it's going to probably take the firepower of the entire opponent's army (and then some) and even that is no guarantee of doing anything if the daemon player deepstrikes him in strategically. Then he can always run 2d6" to get into range of the other guys. I think he definitely makes the army that much tougher, but whether you choose to run him or not is more an issue of preference though. Tzeentch chariots are not too shabby either.

 jy2 wrote:
My bad. I didn't realize that those chaos spawns were heralds on chariots. I was assuming from your previous reports that you were running them on disks with your flamers. That's what I getting for skimming the reports.

Honestly, I'm not that big on plaguebearers anymore. Now that cover is 5+, their FNP is only 5+ and they can't run, I'm more inclined to run pink horrors for some offense however pathetic their shooting is. I run only 1 or maybe 2 units of 5x plaguebearers only nowadays (unless I am running an Epidemius army). I mean, they can't even spread out on the turn they deepstrike in!

Sure Fatey may get dakka'd, but he's coming in swooping and it's going to probably take the firepower of the entire opponent's army (and then some) and even that is no guarantee of doing anything if the daemon player deepstrikes him in strategically. Then he can always run 2d6" to get into range of the other guys. I think he definitely makes the army that much tougher, but whether you choose to run him or not is more an issue of preference though. Tzeentch chariots are not too shabby either.

No worries about the Heralds, man .

While majority of cover is 5+, for me that's not the case, as I play with a lot of ruins; at my home and at the club I go to, so my Plaguebearers end up having 4+ cover. not spreading out when they deep strike is poo, but I guess it maybe better than moving 2D6 and getting low rolls - even worse when you're on top of a objective and so close :(.

Aye, it does take pretty much the entire fire power of the enemy army to take out Fateweaver. How does Fatey get to run 2D6?

mercer wrote: How does Fatey get to run 2D6?

FMC's run 2D6 while Swooping.

Great report as always, btw. Enjoyed it a lot! Daemons in 6th are the real deal.

Well, every day is a school day.

Glad you liked the report. TBH I started Daemons as I was going to use them in Fantasy, 40k was just a bonus. I am not doing Fantasy anymore, but the Daemons in 40k are pretty evil.