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After thinking for a little while, I was kind of bummed that in order to make a Raven Guard army I had to go through several loop holes and make it fluffy on my own. Additionally, I realized that there were several marine chapters and chaos legions that were in the same boat.

All that led to me thinking about GW making two codexes that would incorporate all the major chapters and legions that do not already have their own codex.

I figure the codex would roughly have:
---A considerable amount of lore for each section
---three special characters each, in no particular force org slot.
---army modifiers that do things like reduce the cost of certain upgrades, change out combat tactics, shift the force org, etc.
---Two unique units to that army, and two units from Codex: space marines would either be taken away or limited.


As an example, Raven Guard might look like this:

Shrike, Korvydae, and another sergeant as special characters
Lightning claws would become cheaper, assault marines become troop choices, fleet becomes a USR, predators and land raiders increase points by 10%
Shrike's wing returns as an elite choice and with a different name, and a unique form of scouts that operate in pairs will be an elite slot.
Land raiders and predators become 0-1, Terminator squads (combined) become 0-1, Master of the forge cannot be fielded.


I'm no expert on Raven Guard, but that is an example of something that it could be. Obviously you can only choose one chapter to play as, and there would be internal modifiers for the ally chart. Such as making it so Raven Guard cannot ally with White Scars.


With 6x first founding chapters and who knows how many other chapters being available this could easily be long enough for a codex.


Well Dakka, what do you think?

 rabid1903 wrote:


All that led to me thinking about GW making two codexes that would incorporate all the major chapters and legions that do not already have their own codex.

So 2 additional codices? *brace for: nooooo, no moar marinez *

I figure the codex would roughly have:
---A considerable amount of lore for each section
---three special characters each, in no particular force org slot.
---army modifiers that do things like reduce the cost of certain upgrades, change out combat tactics, shift the force org, etc.
---Two unique units to that army, and two units from Codex: space marines would either be taken away or limited.

Two unique units, per army. You see, thats 12+ unique units which would need something to make them unique...

As an example, Raven Guard might look like this:

Shrike, Korvydae, and another sergeant as special characters
Lightning claws would become cheaper, assault marines become troop choices, fleet becomes a USR, predators and land raiders increase points by 10%
Shrike's wing returns as an elite choice and with a different name, and a unique form of scouts that operate in pairs will be an elite slot.
Land raiders and predators become 0-1, Terminator squads (combined) become 0-1, Master of the forge cannot be fielded.

- Characters , maybe. Equipment, ok. But take your unwashed fingers off of my Tanks.
- Shrikes wing, auto-include usually, extra scouts, maybe if they are Marines, not trainee's.
- Tanks still WTF, Termies? Nothing said they are low on Termies, MotF isn't negotiable as someone has to keep the gear running and IIRC there is no chapter without Techmarines.

I'm no expert on Raven Guard, but that is an example of something that it could be. Obviously you can only choose one chapter to play as, and there would be internal modifiers for the ally chart. Such as making it so Raven Guard cannot ally with White Scars.

Why the Scars? Basically there are only a few conflicts beyond the basic Human=xeno, Imperial = chaos follower, that deserve a cannot ally entry.

With 6x first founding chapters and who knows how many other chapters being available this could easily be long enough for a codex.


Well Dakka, what do you think?

Long enough, isn't the issue. I'd love for everyone to have his/her special fluff, rules and so on, but I doubt GW can deliver in this century.

I'm not a huge marine player at all, but I feel that maybe having these two extra codices might at least make it so I'm not playing the same thing every game.

Being unique can simply be adding some USRs to them or moving them to different slots. For instance, White scars can have more biker CC options or something like that. (I'm really unfamiliar with their fluff, but it's just an example)

The example units that I came up with were mainly to bring Raven Guard into their own. Scouts with marine-stats (but with 4+ armor) were pretty much exactly what I was thinking. Tanks were made rarer in this case because Raven Guard are plain and simple short on vehicles and the newer toys. Terminator armor I haven't heard much about so I just kind of went there because I didn't know really what else to do . As for the MOTF, Raven Guard techmarines I've gathered as rare and spending much more time behind the lines maintaining the precious little armor the chapter has.

Raven Guard and White Scars really don't like each other from everything that I've learned. Minus one captain, they've all had pretty crappy experiences with the other.


Sadly, fluff is one of the biggest reasons why I'd like these codices to come to fruition. But I know the chances of them expanding fluff outside of the golden children of GW is unlikely.

Interesting start, but why stop there? I'd love to get Codex: Craftworlds back, for one thing...

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Interesting start, but why stop there? I'd love to get Codex: Craftworlds back, for one thing...

I really don't think they should stop there, but I don't know hardly anything about Eldar lore and any of that good stuff so I didn't want to venture into that territory.

I'll start, then:

Codex: Craftworlds back in 3e allowed five variant lists for the major Craftworlds in canon fluff. The changes:

Iyanden: Wraithguard and Wraithlords are Troops, though Wraithlords are 0-1 per Wraithguard unit; Guardian Defenders are Heavy Support, Storm Guardians are Fast Attack, Dire Avengers are Elites; they used to be the only Craftworld permitted Spiritseers.

Saim-Hann: Alternate FOC: 1-2 HQ, 2-6 Fast Attack, 0-3 Troops, 0-1 Elites, 0-1 Heavy Support. All Jetbikes and skimmers reroll Difficult Terrain tests, variant Chief/Kinsman HQ unit of more powerful Guardian Jetbikes.

Alaitoc: Used to be the only army allowed Pathfinders, Pathfinders ignored Difficult Terrain and could move through Impassible Terrain with a Difficult Terrain test, otherwise they worked like they do now with a unit size of 3-5. Every Ranger or Pathfinder unit granted a roll on the Ranger Disruption table to alter enemy deployment or start enemy units Pinned or the like. Guardians, Jetbikes, and Vypers were limited to 0-1 per Ranger/Pathfinder unit.

Biel-Tan: Guardians, Rangers, Jetbikes, and Vypers are Elites; Warp Spiders, Striking Scorpions, Howling Banshees, Fire Dragons, and Dark Reapers are Troops. The Court of the Young King (Avatar plus 3-5 Exarchs from the Dire Avenger, Howling Banshee, Fire Dragon, or Striking Scorpion temples) is a variant HQ.

Ulthwe: Your two compulsory Troops choices are Black Guardians with +1 BS (Defenders) or +1 WS (Storm), replace the Farseer entry in HQ with the Seer Council (2-5 Farseers, 3+ Warlocks; Warlocks can take Augment as detailed in the Seer Council Apocalypse datasheet, the unit may not use Jetbikes).

That was how they worked in 3e; the 4e book made some changes redundant, but some of the changes would still be interesting. Without further ado, some variant Eldar lists based on those changes:

Iyanden: The current Eldar list permits Wraithguard to be taken as Troops as units of 10; alter that to permit Wraithguard units of any size to be taken as Troops with the modification that you may only take one other Troops choice per unit of Wraithguard; all living Eldar units are 0-2.

Saim-Hann: Add the Wild Rider Court unit thingy as an optional retinue for jetbike Autarchs (unit of WS4 Guardian Jetbikes with a hand weapon and pistol each but no Warlock), all units that can take transports must take transports, any unit of infantry that cannot take a transport may not be taken, and you must take at least one unit of Guardian Jetbikes per other unit.

Alaitoc: You must take at least one unit of Rangers per other unit, your two compulsory Troops units must be upgraded to Alaitoc Pathfinders (as per normal Pathfinders, but they have WS4, can trade their sniper rifles for power swords, and can move through impassible terrain as if it were difficult terrain) at an additional +2pts over normal Pathfinders, no other Ranger unit can be upgraded to Alaitoc Pathfinders. Roll on the Ranger Disruption table (1: no effect; 2: randomly selected enemy unit begins the game in Reserves instead of starting on the table; 3: randomly selected enemy unit begins the game Pinned unless it is immune to Pinning, in which case this takes no effect; 4: the Eldar player selects an enemy unit to begin the game in Reserves instead of starting on the table; 5: the Eldar player selects an enemy unit that is not immune to Pinning to begin the game Pinned; 6: the Ranger or Pathfinder unit resolves a single round of shooting against a unit selected by the Eldar player regardless of range or line of sight before the game begins) once per Ranger or Pathfinder unit after deployment but before the game begins.

Biel-Tan: Every category on the force organization chart must include more Aspect Warriors than non-Aspect Warriors (so you may not take more Wraithguard/Harlequins than Striking Scorpions/Howling Banshees/Fire Dragons, no more Guardians/Rangers/Jetbikes than Dire Avengers, et cetera). Select one Aspect from the following list: Striking Scorpions, Howling Banshees, Swooping Hawks, Fire Dragons, Dark Reapers, Warp Spiders. That Aspect may be taken as Troops, but you may not take more units of that Aspect than you have Dire Avengers. Add the Court of the Young King (3-10 Exarchs of any Aspect with the Infantry type, with the normal weapon options chosen from their normal unit slot) as an optional retinue for the Avatar; they form one unit.

Ulthwe: All Aspect Warriors are 0-1. Any Guardian unit, heavy weapon platform, or War Walker may be upgraded to Black Guardians with BS4 (Guardian Defenders, heavy weapons, War Walkers) or WS4 (Storm Guardians) at +2pts/model for regular Guardian units, +10pts for a heavy weapon platform, or +15pts for a War Walker. Any Guardian unit with the option to take a Warlock must do so; Guardians are 2+. Farseers must take a Warlock bodyguard, but their Mastery level is increased by 1 (this does not include Eldrad, he's still Mastery 3) for +20pts.

I think that all of those are great ideas, as I'd like to be able to make a standardish SM force without having to use codex:ultram- sorry space marines.
Keep it up
subbed

So I would love for this to happen, but unfortunately I know very little about almost all of the chapters. Even less about all the chaos legions (don't even have their new codex).

This is going to be one hell of a task to take on, and maybe someday I'll get it into a PDF. But I'm going to need help, is anyone willing/interested?

@Rake, seems like you've got a damn good start on the craftworld codex. I really wish I knew more about eldar, because I'd feel terrible trying to balance something I knew nothing about.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
I'll start, then:

Codex: Craftworlds back in 3e allowed five variant lists for the major Craftworlds in canon fluff. The changes:

Iyanden: Wraithguard and Wraithlords are Troops, though Wraithlords are 0-1 per Wraithguard unit; Guardian Defenders are Heavy Support, Storm Guardians are Fast Attack, Dire Avengers are Elites; they used to be the only Craftworld permitted Spiritseers.

Saim-Hann: Alternate FOC: 1-2 HQ, 2-6 Fast Attack, 0-3 Troops, 0-1 Elites, 0-1 Heavy Support. All Jetbikes and skimmers reroll Difficult Terrain tests, variant Chief/Kinsman HQ unit of more powerful Guardian Jetbikes.

Alaitoc: Used to be the only army allowed Pathfinders, Pathfinders ignored Difficult Terrain and could move through Impassible Terrain with a Difficult Terrain test, otherwise they worked like they do now with a unit size of 3-5. Every Ranger or Pathfinder unit granted a roll on the Ranger Disruption table to alter enemy deployment or start enemy units Pinned or the like. Guardians, Jetbikes, and Vypers were limited to 0-1 per Ranger/Pathfinder unit.

Biel-Tan: Guardians, Rangers, Jetbikes, and Vypers are Elites; Warp Spiders, Striking Scorpions, Howling Banshees, Fire Dragons, and Dark Reapers are Troops. The Court of the Young King (Avatar plus 3-5 Exarchs from the Dire Avenger, Howling Banshee, Fire Dragon, or Striking Scorpion temples) is a variant HQ.

Ulthwe: Your two compulsory Troops choices are Black Guardians with +1 BS (Defenders) or +1 WS (Storm), replace the Farseer entry in HQ with the Seer Council (2-5 Farseers, 3+ Warlocks; Warlocks can take Augment as detailed in the Seer Council Apocalypse datasheet, the unit may not use Jetbikes).

That was how they worked in 3e; the 4e book made some changes redundant, but some of the changes would still be interesting. Without further ado, some variant Eldar lists based on those changes:

Iyanden: The current Eldar list permits Wraithguard to be taken as Troops as units of 10; alter that to permit Wraithguard units of any size to be taken as Troops with the modification that you may only take one other Troops choice per unit of Wraithguard; all living Eldar units are 0-2.

Saim-Hann: Add the Wild Rider Court unit thingy as an optional retinue for jetbike Autarchs (unit of WS4 Guardian Jetbikes with a hand weapon and pistol each but no Warlock), all units that can take transports must take transports, any unit of infantry that cannot take a transport may not be taken, and you must take at least one unit of Guardian Jetbikes per other unit.

Alaitoc: You must take at least one unit of Rangers per other unit, your two compulsory Troops units must be upgraded to Alaitoc Pathfinders (as per normal Pathfinders, but they have WS4, can trade their sniper rifles for power swords, and can move through impassible terrain as if it were difficult terrain) at an additional +2pts over normal Pathfinders, no other Ranger unit can be upgraded to Alaitoc Pathfinders. Roll on the Ranger Disruption table (1: no effect; 2: randomly selected enemy unit begins the game in Reserves instead of starting on the table; 3: randomly selected enemy unit begins the game Pinned unless it is immune to Pinning, in which case this takes no effect; 4: the Eldar player selects an enemy unit to begin the game in Reserves instead of starting on the table; 5: the Eldar player selects an enemy unit that is not immune to Pinning to begin the game Pinned; 6: the Ranger or Pathfinder unit resolves a single round of shooting against a unit selected by the Eldar player regardless of range or line of sight before the game begins) once per Ranger or Pathfinder unit after deployment but before the game begins.

Biel-Tan: Every category on the force organization chart must include more Aspect Warriors than non-Aspect Warriors (so you may not take more Wraithguard/Harlequins than Striking Scorpions/Howling Banshees/Fire Dragons, no more Guardians/Rangers/Jetbikes than Dire Avengers, et cetera). Select one Aspect from the following list: Striking Scorpions, Howling Banshees, Swooping Hawks, Fire Dragons, Dark Reapers, Warp Spiders. That Aspect may be taken as Troops, but you may not take more units of that Aspect than you have Dire Avengers. Add the Court of the Young King (3-10 Exarchs of any Aspect with the Infantry type, with the normal weapon options chosen from their normal unit slot) as an optional retinue for the Avatar; they form one unit.

Ulthwe: All Aspect Warriors are 0-1. Any Guardian unit, heavy weapon platform, or War Walker may be upgraded to Black Guardians with BS4 (Guardian Defenders, heavy weapons, War Walkers) or WS4 (Storm Guardians) at +2pts/model for regular Guardian units, +10pts for a heavy weapon platform, or +15pts for a War Walker. Any Guardian unit with the option to take a Warlock must do so; Guardians are 2+. Farseers must take a Warlock bodyguard, but their Mastery level is increased by 1 (this does not include Eldrad, he's still Mastery 3) for +20pts.

I want this SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO bad.