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Had a new opponent yesterday playing the new chaos dex, it was a pretty good fight and I had two damn dirty necron tricks come up.

First was he had a tooled up chaos lord with a demon weapon that I squeamishly decided to engage with my MSS Destoryer Lord. I got luck he failed the MSS roll. I he inflicted 2 hits to himself using his demon weapon both wounded. The questionable part was when we made him roll since he used his demon weapon for the number of extra attacks (the attacks are not used, we were just checking for a 1 since he used his demon weapon). A 1 was rolled the lord died. Was this correct? (His only special weapon was a daemon weapon so he would have had to use it) we realize this was slightly out of order as the DW use happens at start of combat along with MSS and Challenges.

Second dirty trick was I used an AB to shoot down his dragon is the most glorious of ways. Moved 12 for rear armor shot since I was going to need to snapfire anyhow and got 6 S7 hits and 3 S6 hits. Dead as fried chicken. He didn't think that the Tesla auto hits should have worked, he also didn't like that I used full movement and still fired all my guns since full movement would have made them all snap fire for any shot not just air shots.

Both are legal.
You use the weapon's special rules when using the MSS. The Deamon weapon is a weapon. Ergo, you may use its rules.

The tesla autohits are also legal I think. There is another thread on the forum about it.

Yep, the tesla hits are allowed too, since you can fire the tesla as a snap-shot, and snapshots which autohit something still hit said something automatically rather than being disallowed. Here is the relevent rules-snippet.

6th Edition FAQ:
"
Q: Does a weapon that hits automatically, still hit automatically when making a Snap Shot? (p13)
A: Yes."

While something that autohits can be snapfired, it cannot be used to target a flyer. See the bolded portion of this FAQ.

Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon
that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically – interact with
Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13)
A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping
Flying Monstrous Creatures. Therefore, any attacks that use
blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect

or otherwise don’t roll to hit

cannot target them. This includes
weapons such as the Necron Doom Scythe’s death ray or the
Deathstrike missile of the Imperial Guard, and psychic
powers that follow the rule for maelstroms, beams, and
novas.

 don_mondo wrote:
While something that autohits can be snapfired, it cannot be used to target a flyer. See the bolded portion of this FAQ.

Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon
that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically – interact with
Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13)
A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping
Flying Monstrous Creatures. Therefore, any attacks that use
blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect

or otherwise don’t roll to hit

The weapon, Telsa Destructor, does roll to hit. When snap firing, and roll a 6 to hit, it generates additional hits. But it did snap fire, and it did roll to hit.


As for the MSS + daemon weapon, you choose the order. If he rolls for daemon weapon first, and MSS second, then it's clear what happens. I'm not sure if he fails MSS first, that he even tests for daemon weapon. Just make him roll first.

-Matt

don_mondo wrote: or otherwise don’t roll to hit

Every tesla weapon currently in a rulebook somewhere does roll to hit just fine as part of it's normal use.

There is no particularly compelling reason that i've found to treat the effects of the 'Tesla USR' as a seperate weapon from the weapon those effects were rolled for.

yeah basicly the way we have always played tesla is when snap firing you are essentially rolling for 3 hits or a miss.

tgf wrote:
yeah basicly the way we have always played tesla is when snap firing you are essentially rolling for 3 hits or a miss.

Yea I feel it's extremely lame but well worded and works great.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

You use the weapon's special rules when using the MSS. The Deamon weapon is a weapon. Ergo, you may use its rules.

Just a clarification here as I'm not sure if you were aware and want to make sure others are as well . The Necron FAQ says:

Q: If mindshackle scarabs are used against a model whose weapon
gives them additional Attacks in close combat for any reason, are these
attacks added to the number of hits the model causes on their unit (for
example a Daemon Weapon)? (p81)
A: No.

But note that the FAQ answer does not indicate whether or not you roll on the daemon weapon table at all.

They are not arguing that the demon weapon gives more hits if mind shackled, they are wondering what happens if the person wielding the demon weapon rolls a 1 and auto wounds himself.

Which is does, because you are "using" the daemon weapon, which has a rule about any time you use it what you must then do

>That feel when you think you're doing dirty tricks when its just the regular necron codex.
>That feel when it isn't cheating, you're just playing as they were intended to play.

Goood..Good...let the power flow through you...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Don't try to fight the necron overpoweredness..
I've seen it in you.
IT IS YOUR DESTINY.

Tesla simply has an additional special rule that if a 6 is rolled on the to hit chart, you get 3 hits with the shot instead of 1.

You still rolled to hit using a Snap Shot.

All rules are satisfied.

bagtagger wrote:
They are not arguing that the demon weapon gives more hits if mind shackled, they are wondering what happens if the person wielding the demon weapon rolls a 1 and auto wounds himself.

Isn't that when you roll a 1 to-hit? And, MSS causes D3 "auto-hits". So, you can never roll a 1 to-hit on MSS.

 Kevin949 wrote:

bagtagger wrote:
They are not arguing that the demon weapon gives more hits if mind shackled, they are wondering what happens if the person wielding the demon weapon rolls a 1 and auto wounds himself.

Isn't that when you roll a 1 to-hit? And, MSS causes D3 "auto-hits". So, you can never roll a 1 to-hit on MSS.

The DW only wounds you when you roll to see how many attacks you are going to make, since the MSS already tell you how many no need to roll to see how many you get

 Kevin949 wrote:

bagtagger wrote:
They are not arguing that the demon weapon gives more hits if mind shackled, they are wondering what happens if the person wielding the demon weapon rolls a 1 and auto wounds himself.

Isn't that when you roll a 1 to-hit? And, MSS causes D3 "auto-hits". So, you can never roll a 1 to-hit on MSS.

That's the old codex. New codex you roll at the start of the Fight sub-phase.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

bagtagger wrote:
They are not arguing that the demon weapon gives more hits if mind shackled, they are wondering what happens if the person wielding the demon weapon rolls a 1 and auto wounds himself.

Isn't that when you roll a 1 to-hit? And, MSS causes D3 "auto-hits". So, you can never roll a 1 to-hit on MSS.

That's the old codex. New codex you roll at the start of the Fight sub-phase.

Ah. Well either way, you're still rolling the number of attacks based off of MSS and not off the daemon weapon rules so it still shouldn't auto-wound on a 1.

 Kevin949 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

bagtagger wrote:
They are not arguing that the demon weapon gives more hits if mind shackled, they are wondering what happens if the person wielding the demon weapon rolls a 1 and auto wounds himself.

Isn't that when you roll a 1 to-hit? And, MSS causes D3 "auto-hits". So, you can never roll a 1 to-hit on MSS.

That's the old codex. New codex you roll at the start of the Fight sub-phase.

Ah. Well either way, you're still rolling the number of attacks based off of MSS and not off the daemon weapon rules so it still shouldn't auto-wound on a 1.

Two different rolls. One is for the Daemon weapon which has no effect on the number of MSS attacks.

I don't have the chaos codex, so I can't get the exact wording, but it sounds a bit like Gets Hot and template/blast weapons. You don't actually roll to hit, but are still required to roll the die to see if you get burned.
Even though MSS disallows gaining additional hits, all special rules of the weapon are still in play. If it says you must roll 1d6, you must roll it.
Kudos on the win, btw. It really is a beautiful thing to see our enemies powerful weapons turned on themselves. Watching characters like Crowe chop themselves in half never gets old.

 Fafnir13 wrote:
I don't have the chaos codex, so I can't get the exact wording, but it sounds a bit like Gets Hot and template/blast weapons. You don't actually roll to hit, but are still required to roll the die to see if you get burned.
Even though MSS disallows gaining additional hits, all special rules of the weapon are still in play. If it says you must roll 1d6, you must roll it.
Kudos on the win, btw. It really is a beautiful thing to see our enemies powerful weapons turned on themselves. Watching characters like Crowe chop themselves in half never gets old.

Hm, interesting.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

bagtagger wrote:
They are not arguing that the demon weapon gives more hits if mind shackled, they are wondering what happens if the person wielding the demon weapon rolls a 1 and auto wounds himself.

Isn't that when you roll a 1 to-hit? And, MSS causes D3 "auto-hits". So, you can never roll a 1 to-hit on MSS.

That's the old codex. New codex you roll at the start of the Fight sub-phase.

No, not even old codex. Same rule - roll a D6. Now when you roll a 1 you are dropped to WS1 and fight normally, previously you didnt fight at all, and still took a wound with no armour or cover saves allowed.

You roll every time you ae using a daemon weapon, whcih MSS still forces you to do