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How do you all arm your:

Company Commander
Platoon Commanders
Veteran Sergeants
Platoon Sergeants

For anyone who says "it depends on what their unit has/ what their roll is":

My CCS is there to give orders, watch over mortar teams and boost morale
My PCS is a bunch of flamers
My Vets are Melta Vets (sometimes in chimeras)
My Platoons are all purpose GL/ sometimes GL + Auto Cannon (sometimes in chimeras)


If anyone wants to help with other questions I have:

Does it make any sense to give one of my PCS guys a heavy flamer or is this just slowing them down?

Why not add a LC/AC/HB to a platoon of melta vets if they are in a chimera? is it cause it makes them a glaring red target? is the payoff not worth the cost? can't you fire the 3 meltas, the AC/LC/HB and 2 more lasguns each turn from the chimera?

My reading of the IG codex sounds like you can't order into vehicles or out - is there a loophole i am missing? some people think you can go one way?

Demo Charges - would you take a special weapons squad with one of these or no? - if it depends on the scenario, tell me when?

CCS
Plasma pistol
4xPlasma Gun
Chimera

PCS
4x Flamer
Chimera

Vets
3xMelta
Chimera/Vendetta

Platoon Squads
Sgt Pwr weapon/axe
flamer

played a hybrid mech/blob for most of fifth.

For CCS, I've had the most luck with a lascannon and master of ordnance for shooting (using BiD! on itself makes things surprisingly accurate against vehicles). Otherwise, I make a choppy CCS, usually going for the power fist+eviscerator priest option. I've also been taking the standard a lot recently.

For PCSs, I'm almost getting to the point of not bothering to arm them anymore. No matter what I give them, they basically never kill anything. If I give them anything even remotely dangerous, they're just wiped out right away (often before getting a hit in thanks to BS3), and if I don't, then they tend not to ever kill anything (once again, thanks to BS3). I've succumbed to keeping them extremely cheap, as in a single autocannon or a pair of cheap special weapons.

As for sergeants, I don't bother giving them upgrades. Not worth it anymore.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
CCS
Plasma pistol
4xPlasma Gun
Chimera

PCS
4x Flamer
Chimera

Vets
3xMelta
Chimera/Vendetta

Platoon Squads
Sgt Pwr weapon/axe
flamer

played a hybrid mech/blob for most of fifth.

I meant the actual commanders themselves rather than the squads. Do you find any of the upgrades valuable?

Mitsuø wrote:Does it make any sense to give one of my PCS guys a heavy flamer or is this just slowing them down?

No, it's an EXTREMELY expensive upgrade that you'll never actually get to shoot. Better to find an extra 35 points and give them a chimera with a heavy flamer instead. You get a free multilaser, and the guys inside stay a lot safer.

Mitsuø wrote:Why not add a LC/AC/HB to a platoon of melta vets if they are in a chimera?

No reason. The only problem with vets is that they can get pretty pricey pretty quickly. That said, autocannons are cheap and synergize with plasma on S.

Mitsuø wrote:My reading of the IG codex sounds like you can't order into vehicles or out - is there a loophole i am missing? some people think you can go one way?

You can order out, thanks to "mobile command bunker", but you can not order in. This includes an officer ordering his own squad while embarked.

Mitsuø wrote:Demo Charges - would you take a special weapons squad with one of these or no? - if it depends on the scenario, tell me when?

Perhaps, if I ever had any intention of bringing special weapons squads.

That said, I'd probably take two SWSs with flamers or something over one with demo charges. Odds of you using them are too low, and they're rather flakey when not thrown by Marbo.

Mitsuø wrote:I meant the actual commanders themselves rather than the squads. Do you find any of the upgrades valuable?

Oh, no. They're expensive and tend to be of very limited use. Power weapons have problems wounding, plasma pistols will ever be shot once in a game, and bolt weapons give you an odd number of points in a world where everything else is divisible by 5.

The only exception to this is power fists, and even then, it's only on company commanders or lord commissars. Spending that many points just to get TWO attacks with a junior officer isn't worth it.

Mitsuø wrote:
How do you all arm your:

Company Commander
Platoon Commanders
Veteran Sergeants
Platoon Sergeants

For anyone who says "it depends on what their unit has/ what their roll is":

My CCS is there to give orders, watch over mortar teams and boost morale
My PCS is a bunch of flamers
My Vets are Melta Vets (sometimes in chimeras)
My Platoons are all purpose GL/ sometimes GL + Auto Cannon (sometimes in chimeras)


If anyone wants to help with other questions I have:

Does it make any sense to give one of my PCS guys a heavy flamer or is this just slowing them down?
Sadly heavy flamers cost way too much for what they do for guardsmen. Normal flamers would not be a bad choice though
Why not add a LC/AC/HB to a platoon of melta vets if they are in a chimera? is it cause it makes them a glaring red target? is the payoff not worth the cost? can't you fire the 3 meltas, the AC/LC/HB and 2 more lasguns each turn from the chimera?
A lot of people don't like to have their chimeras sitting around. If you plan on yours chilling out on a gunline for a turn or two that probably won't hurt. But if you're running low on points in a list it'd be the first thing I'd end up cutting.
My reading of the IG codex sounds like you can't order into vehicles or out - is there a loophole i am missing? some people think you can go one way?
Chimeras allow orders to be given from the hatch. However, you cannot give orders to any unit embarked in a transport or inside a building (as they must "embark" to enter a bastion or something, ruins are fine though) Read about orders and the chimera entry, they'll clear it up for you better.
Demo Charges - would you take a special weapons squad with one of these or no? - if it depends on the scenario, tell me when?
It'll be hard to get them into position, which is the only dealbreaker. I've heard great results by using a 2 flamer, 1 demo charge unit being airdropped by valkyrie/vendettas though. I'm thinking of taking a x3 demo charge SWS to drop from a valkyrie as a poor man's apocalyptic barrage for example. It all hinges on being able to get close enough to use the friggin thing. Usually this means marbo, and airdropped demo vets/SWS's

Yeah, figured the red text would make answering those questions easier. As for arming the actual commanders, the only one I'll ever put anything on is my company commander. It's usually not a bad idea to throw a fist on him, as 9 times out of 10 something will try to charge the commander to get an easy kill. Giving him the fist gives him a solid chance of dragging a few down with him. Ailaros actually runs his as a mini close combat counterattack unit with a priest and a medic. Read his battle reports if you'd like to get an idea of how he runs them. The rest, from platoon commander down, are usually not worth the effort in buying things for them. Swapping the vet sarge's pistol for a shotgun is free though, so I'd definitely do that at least. Usually though it just makes them even bigger targets than they alread were, and all it does is make them die faster.

That answer your questions OP? There should be plenty of IG posts in a bit when everyone wakes up and goes to work in about 8 hours

All right, it sounds like your CCS is hanging back, so I guess the commander himself doesn't need anything. Some people like giving him a plasma pistol or boltgun and power fist, but I find them quite unnecessary. He does benefit from camo cloaks or carapace armor if you take them, but I usually don't.

The platoon commander is more likely to be in the thick of things so you may consider giving him some upgrades like a power fist, but I usually don't-the commander himself doesn't do the killing, and if he dies, I don't shed any tears-he's not central to success IMO, basically all he brings is some T3 Wounds and a single order with abysmal range. Then again, I only use my PCS for FRFSRF and occasionally to get some extra GL/PG or AC.

Sergeants; they're basically there to shut down enemy characters with scary CC weapons by challenging them and dying in horrible fashion. Any Wounds they cause is a bonus, so giving them any upgrades is also not to my taste.

I just noticed I don't give my commanders ANY wargear. Thanks

Mitsuø wrote:

My CCS is there to give orders, watch over mortar teams and boost morale
My CCS Rolls around with 4 plasma guns and a plasma pistol with carapace in a Chimera. No power weapon on the boss, but he has his pimp cane for killing Wyches
My PCS is a bunch of flamers
Ditto. 4 flamers on the cheap. Chimera if I have the points, or I put them in a Vendetta/Valkyrie.
My Vets are Melta Vets (sometimes in chimeras)
Mech Meltavets all the way.
My Platoons are all purpose GL/ sometimes GL + Auto Cannon (sometimes in chimeras)
Autocannon + Flamer. Blobbed up to 30 behind an ADL (hopefully with a camo cloak commissar) on an objective.

If anyone wants to help with other questions I have:

Does it make any sense to give one of my PCS guys a heavy flamer or is this just slowing them down?
Too expensive for me. It's a 5 man squad so I keep them cheap.
Why not add a LC/AC/HB to a platoon of melta vets if they are in a chimera? is it cause it makes them a glaring red target? is the payoff not worth the cost? can't you fire the 3 meltas, the AC/LC/HB and 2 more lasguns each turn from the chimera?
I don't mechanize platoons, only Vets. Mechvets are designed for the 3 melta/plasma. With overwatch it *might* be useful to take an AC but points are probably best spent elsewhere.
My reading of the IG codex sounds like you can't order into vehicles or out - is there a loophole i am missing? some people think you can go one way?
You are correct, except for the Chimera. Chimeras have a special rule described on their description page called "Command Vehicle" (or something similar). Basically you can order out, but not in.
Demo Charges - would you take a special weapons squad with one of these or no? - if it depends on the scenario, tell me when?
The only time I would is if I have extra points and I can throw them in one of my Vendettas. For me, however, there are several problems:
1) I have to be taking a platoon (I usually only run vets)
2) You have to put them in a Valkyrie or Chimera to be remotely useful.
3) They're points that I probably can better spend on more Leman Russes, Manticores, Veteran Squads, or Vendettas.
4) Even if you do mount them in a Vendetta, you're going to need to make it vulnerable by hovering to let them out and blow something (usually themselves) up.
5) I'd rather take Marbo with a guaranteed no-scatter arrival, BS5, and AP2 pistol.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wow I am slow...

Just as a heads up Dog Of War, the camo cloak trick doesn't work with giving a whole blob stealth anymore, they FAQ'D it where it just gives +1 to the specific model's cover save. So your commissar would have a +3, but all the scrubs would still use +4's.

Your other questions:
-HF is too expensive, normal flamers are OK but waste the juicy BS4 of the CCS. Better on PCS though.
-If you're bringing Chimeras for mobility, the answer is definitely no. If you're bringing them for supporting firepower, it's not a bad idea to put Vets in there with a heavy weapon, although I'd be really careful about mixing extremely long range weapons with extremely short ranged ones (I'm talking to you, meltaguns and autocannons.).
-You can order out of a Chimera due to the Mobile Command Vehicle special rule, but you cannot give orders to a squad in a Chimera.
-Demo charges are devastating but pricy and also very risky (they love to scatter back onto your own unit). It's OK if you load them into a flyer and move them into position, but don't expect spectacular results.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DogOfWar wrote:

Wow I am slow...

Looks like I'm even slower

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Just as a heads up Dog Of War, the camo cloak trick doesn't work with giving a whole blob stealth anymore, they FAQ'D it where it just gives +1 to the specific model's cover save. So your commissar would have a +3, but all the scrubs would still use +4's.

Booo. Yet another reason for me to stick to Vets only! Thanks for the heads up.

DoW

... well done

I really mean that. I feel like you've all given me great feedback!

I was only dolling out upgrades to vet commanders and the PCS assuming they might be involved in assaults, but I'm rethinking giving any commander, anything....

I figured the regular sergeants shouldn't be upgraded.. mine are usually with commissar so its a waste anyway when he fells them.

I'm glad my strategy (mchvets, flamer spammed PCS) is still valuable in 6th edition.

I guess while I have you all, how about a follow up question?

Vox Casters.... they are so cheap I hand them out like candy or krak grenades, literally any squad that can grab one is given one.... any opinions on this?

If your plan hinges on orders, maybe. But for a fun excercise, take those "cheap" vox casters you're buying, and add up how much they cost total across your army.

Odds are you're probably spending enough to almost afford your mandatory Marbo elite choice Or at the very least a chimera or some other weapon upgrades. Krak grenades are a similar situation. The first one is cheap, but then you go and buy 5 or 6 squads krak grenades and realize that you've shafted yourself out of points that could have gone elsewhere. However, if your platoon get's charged by monstrous creatures a lot, might not be a bad idea to keep them. They can put some serious hurt on big gribblies who think they're in for an easy fight.

The problem with voxes is that the units that can buy them don't need them, and the units that DO need them (SWS's and HWS's) can't buy them. LD 8 is plenty for platoons to pass on, and I've never really felt the need to buy them. I'll probably take them sometimes to a friendly game just so I can use all my voxcaster models I have though.

If you take combined squads, they're very good, but if you take loads of vets, their cost adds up. I like them, many don't. If you depend on orders a lot, take them.

Mitsuø wrote:


My CCS is there to give orders, watch over mortar teams and boost morale
If they're sitting back (which they should be) then give them something longrange, like an autocannon or lascannon. I'm partial to the lascannon, because their BS4 allows it to actually be useful here. If they're babysitting heavy weapon teams, and you're having trouble keeping said teams holding their ground, maybe consider a Standard.
My PCS is a bunch of flamers
Nice.
My Vets are Melta Vets (sometimes in chimeras)
Try out a mix of 50/50 meltasquads and plasmasquads. Plasma is quite killy, allowing you to maintain some range while laying down fire. Vets with this much power should be in Chimeras.
My Platoons are all purpose GL/ sometimes GL + Auto Cannon (sometimes in chimeras)
See, you might not like this, especially considering you probably already have the guys modeled. On the bright side, autocannons work great for Infantry Squads. Multiple shots help the low BS, and they're strong. Unfortunately, grenade launchers are a pretty do-nothing upgrade. Assuming you've got your boys blobbed up all nice and strong, they have a couple things to fear. Big tough guys (MC's, HQ's, Elites like Termies) and Fast folk that will sweeping advance you before you can turn your lasgun safety off (Bikes, jetbikes, jump troops). Flamers help a bit with these, ignoring cover saves from turbo boosting and whatnot, but their real merit is their autohits on the charge. Swapping out these GL's for flamers would allow you to essentially protect your blob with 40k's version of pikemen. If your blob is 40 men, that's 30 or so lasgun shots hitting on 6, and 4xd3 flamers autohitting. Rather imposing. Your other alternative is to give the blob special weapons that they can actually contribute to your kill tally with. Hook them up with plasmaguns; they'll be packing (at 24" range) 12 str7 shots, 4 of which are AP2. At 12" that becomes 16 and 8. That, my friend, is a lot of killing power. Forget chimeras for the squads. They are too cheap and weak a squad to merit giving them a transport, and thus an extra KP. That 35 points (per squad) will certainly be better elsewhere.


Does it make any sense to give one of my PCS guys a heavy flamer or is this just slowing them down?
Won't be slowing anything down, just a waste of points.

Why not add a LC/AC/HB to a platoon of melta vets if they are in a chimera? is it cause it makes them a glaring red target? is the payoff not worth the cost? can't you fire the 3 meltas, the AC/LC/HB and 2 more lasguns each turn from the chimera?
You've got your number of weapons able to be fired from the hatch wrong, but yes, you can fire all the specials and a heavy. If you have the points, sure, throw a weapon in there that compliments their specials.

Demo Charges - would you take a special weapons squad with one of these or no? - if it depends on the scenario, tell me when?
Nah. Too expensive and too flimsy of a squad.Three instances do SWS with a demo squad become viable (more than one is ridiculous.).
1. Zone Mortalis and other CQB stuff where the squad won't get picked off much sooner.
2. You run valkyries and are confident Grav-Chuting the squad right next to someone.
3. You play Elysians, and everything can deep strike. Then they become a surgical tool of wreckage.
For each of these instances, the makeup should be 2 flamers and a demo charge, resulting in quite a good suicide squad.

Hope that helped, bud.

-TheCaptain


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mitsuø wrote:


Vox Casters.... they are so cheap I hand them out like candy or krak grenades, literally any squad that can grab one is given one.... any opinions on this?
Tsk tsk. It's easy to get sucked into this, because like you say, they're so cheap. But those points add up, and can be spent on awesomeness ever. Think about how often you actually accomplish stuff with Krak grenades. Sure, you probably did something awesome once or twice, and that sticks out in your mind enough to convince you to use them, but they're remarkably "meh" if you look at it objectively. Scratch two of those Krak grenades, you just bought your Company commander a plasma pistol. Scratch four, and look, a Master of Ordinance just popped into your list. IG has many dirt cheap upgrades that are "cool" but not very good. Then we've got decently cheap stuff that, once you get past the dollar menu glamour, are actually worth having. Try thinning out your voxes and krak grenades to just the essentials, take some more worthwhile upgrades, like a standard for those mortar teams so they don't retreat.

Mitsuø wrote:Vox Casters.... they are so cheap I hand them out like candy or krak grenades, literally any squad that can grab one is given one.... any opinions on this?

As others have said, forget it. You don't buy a vox caster, you have to buy a NETWORK of vox casters. This gets unfortunately pricey. Well, pricey for what it does, which isn't very much. You only ever get to use the caster when you fail your orders, and when you reroll with the vox you can still fail them a second time, so there's not the biggest slice of circumstances you're getting to use them in. Add to that the fact that orders are neat, but rarely ever necessary, and you've got an upgrade that, itself, is rarely ever necessary.

That and the only three squads that you're REALLY going to want to use orders on in your average game (SWSs, HWSs, and conscripts), can't even take them. Most other cool units are going to be out of range, also can't take voxes, or can't take orders (as they're embarked, or are vehicles themselves.

This one is clearly a "more guns" situation.

 Ailaros wrote:

Mitsuø wrote:Vox Casters.... they are so cheap I hand them out like candy or krak grenades, literally any squad that can grab one is given one.... any opinions on this?

As others have said, forget it. You don't buy a vox caster, you have to buy a NETWORK of vox casters. This gets unfortunately pricey. Well, pricey for what it does, which isn't very much. You only ever get to use the caster when you fail your orders, and when you reroll with the vox you can still fail them a second time, so there's not the biggest slice of circumstances you're getting to use them in. Add to that the fact that orders are neat, but rarely ever necessary, and you've got an upgrade that, itself, is rarely ever necessary.

That and the only three squads that you're REALLY going to want to use orders on in your average game (SWSs, HWSs, and conscripts), can't even take them. Most other cool units are going to be out of range, also can't take voxes, or can't take orders (as they're embarked, or are vehicles themselves.

This one is clearly a "more guns" situation.

I concur, with the one exception (in my mind) being a Heavy-weapon filled blob. Blob with 4 autocannons/lascannons can merit a vox caster, simply to ensure they do some serious vehicle popping for 10 more points. Overall though, listen to Ailaros. He knows his plastic.

As for krak grenades, this one is a little murky thanks to 6th ed making them much better. They now hit monstrous creatures, they now hit vehicles very, very easily, and you can even throw them on occasion.

I've been playing with stormtroopers and vets a lot recently, and I've milked those krak grenades for all they're worth, and they occasionally do something really neat.

... but PAYING for them? That's iffy. Yeah, they look cheap now, but, like the vox net, you're not going to wind up just paying for them somewhere, but you're going to wind up paying for them everywhere, and that's going to rack up the price pretty fast.

I could see buying them, but only on two conditions.

1.) You only take them on platoon infantry squads. Paying for them on PCSs, CCSs, or HWSs is just silly given how few grenades you get on such a fragile squad.

Frustratingly, the only other place I'd consider it is in SWSs. Spending 40 points for 6 dudes with krak grenades that hide out of LOS by an objective and have a big of vehicle insurance would be great... but you can't take them...

2.) You know you're going to use them. I don't mean, you think you might use them. I mean that you're getting charged by monstrous creatures and AV10 walkers or are on the receiving end of a chimera highland charge practically every game.

If you're taking them just for insurance, then you're talking about paying 20+ points on something that you're never actually using. You know what you'd ever actually use? A pair of meltaguns or autocannons, or something.

If these two conditions apply, then I think I'd be tempted to actually throw a few around, as, like a melta hedge, its going to screw up your opponents plan for just charging up the field with certain key units.

Otherwise, yeah, you're not really going to use them that much, and at some point you'll build a list where you absolutely need an extra 10-20 points and you'll dump them, and not miss their absence.

Mitsuø wrote:
Company Commander

Nothing.

Well, occasionally dual plasma pistols if I have points to spare and don't feel like optimizing my list any better.

Platoon Commanders

Nothing.

Veteran Sergeants

Nothing.

Occasionally Harker or dual plasma pistols if I really don't feel like optimizing my list any better.

Platoon Sergeants

Nothing.

Does it make any sense to give one of my PCS guys a heavy flamer or is this just slowing them down?

It doesn't slow them down since the heavy flamer is an assault weapon. However, it's too expensive when it's not much better than a regular flamer for 4x the cost, and you can get them free on all of your vehicles.

Why not add a LC/AC/HB to a platoon of melta vets if they are in a chimera? is it cause it makes them a glaring red target? is the payoff not worth the cost? can't you fire the 3 meltas, the AC/LC/HB and 2 more lasguns each turn from the chimera?

Points mostly. Melta vets are almost always moving, so paying for a snap fire heavy weapon usually isn't worth it and those points are better spent elsewhere.

My reading of the IG codex sounds like you can't order into vehicles or out - is there a loophole i am missing? some people think you can go one way?

You can give orders out of a Chimera because the Chimera has a special rule that lets you do it. You can't give orders into a Chimera (even to your own squad).

No, it doesn't make any sense.

Demo Charges - would you take a special weapons squad with one of these or no? - if it depends on the scenario, tell me when?

No, because my veteran squads are the demo charge carriers. However, if I wanted to use a SWS instead I'd take them in a Valkyrie/Vendetta with 3x demo charges and hope the transport doesn't get shot down before it can go into hover mode and drop them next to an expensive MEQ/TEQ unit.

Peregrine wrote:Occasionally Harker

Well, special characters kind of fit outside of this all. Whenever I take al'rahem, I always give him the desert claw and a plasma pistol, but that's because I have no choice.

Usually I'll take special characters for some other reason unrelated to how they're armed. I like the outflanking scoring unit of harker, and the outflanking scoring units+BiD! of al'rahem, and the ability to buy SitNW with chenkov.

 Ailaros wrote:

Peregrine wrote:Occasionally Harker

Well, special characters kind of fit outside of this all. Whenever I take al'rahem, I always give him the desert claw and a plasma pistol, but that's because I have no choice.

What I mean is that occasionally I'll buy Harker as an upgrade for a squad, not because he's part of my plan, but because I can't think of a better way to spend the points and I'm too lazy to go back and re-optimize my list to fit in a full additional unit. In that sense buying Harker is just like buying a power fist for the sergeant, I just get different bonuses for the points.

oh, heh.

More like the... sure, I'll pay 50 points for a heavy bolter if it gives everybody stealth...