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How does this rule actually work?
Does it prevent models that are out of range of the shooter to die or not.
Honestly me and the local group can't seem to get WTF GW actually wrote, the fact none of us are native to english might have something to do with it, but to us the whole affair seems incredibly muddy.

if you're out of range you simply cannot shoot.

Pg 12 shooting phase, is that what you're talking about?

yea i'm sorry I don't see how this is confusing.

you declare a target, measure (or now premeasure since its legal) and determine if they are in range. if they aren't, you don't shoot and cannot shoot another target.

 Rimmy wrote:
yea i'm sorry I don't see how this is confusing.

you declare a target, measure (or now premeasure since its legal) and determine if they are in range. if they aren't, you don't shoot and cannot shoot another target.

1) The Underlined is incorrect. If no weapons are in range, then a different target must be chosen. (Also You are allowed to check range and LoS to multiple units before you declare your target).

2) OP: Every model in the target unit (Unit A), as long as they are in Line of Sight to someone in the firing unit (Unit B), can die, even if some of the models in (Unit A) are out of range of every model in (Unit B).

So as long as models in the firing unit (Unit B) have Line of Sight and range to at least one model in Unit A, they can fire upon Unit A and kill models in Unit A.

Basically you need to read the Out of Range rules thusly: "As long as a [firing] model was in range of the enemy when To Hit rolls were made, [that firing model] is considered to be in range for the duration..."

DR to your #1
if you don't pre measure and assume you're in range only to be out of range when you do go to shoot. You do not pick another target

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
DR to your #1
if you don't pre measure and assume you're in range only to be out of range when you do go to shoot. You do not pick another target

P. 12 says that you are incorrect. "At least one weapon must be in range of the target unit. If no weapons are in range, then a different target must be chosen."

Deathreaper has it correct. You check range from each individual model in the firing unit, to any model in the target unit, to see who can fire. You pretty much ignore range entirely for the purposes of removing casualties, aside from allocating to the closest first.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
DR to your #1
if you don't pre measure and assume you're in range only to be out of range when you do go to shoot. You do not pick another target

Nope Read the 3rd line of Check range, you'd be shocked to hear you are wrong there.

 liturgies of blood wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
DR to your #1
if you don't pre measure and assume you're in range only to be out of range when you do go to shoot. You do not pick another target

Nope Read the 3rd line of Check range, you'd be shocked to hear you are wrong there.

Well thats awesome good to know I only cheated myself.

Thanks for the ally-oop


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DeathReaper wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
DR to your #1
if you don't pre measure and assume you're in range only to be out of range when you do go to shoot. You do not pick another target

P. 12 says that you are incorrect. "At least one weapon must be in range of the target unit. If no weapons are in range, then a different target must be chosen."

That's what I get I only read the first line of check range, than jumped over to which models can fire.

edit: misread the discussion, nevermind.

You have to be in range of an enemy in line of sight to fire.
You have to be in line of sight to die.

So if 10 marines rapid fire at an Ork unit.
All of the orks are in line of sight.
A single ork is within 12".
20 rolls to hit are made (as all meet the in range of in line of sight requirement)
All the hits and then rolled to wound
Saves (if any) are taken
Orks are removed, starting with the closest, and you keep pulling those closest and in line of sight. Range is NOT a factor in apply wounds.

So yes, you can kill enemies beyond your max range.
Think of it the enemy advancing and being gunned down, and some shots going further. It's not like a M16 has a lethal range where if you step back 3' you went from dead to safe.

-Matt

Page 16 has a mildly confusing subject-object construction.

ALL it says is that, if you start off your shooting in range of the enemy unit, all your shots are considered in range even if casualty removal means further models are outside of your nominal range.

The rules basically work like this.

You measure to see which model's weapons have range to the enemy unit, the roll to hit, wound, saves etc.

It doesn't matter if all 10 of your dudes only had range to one of the enemy, any number of enemy models can die from the shooting.


For example, if we have 10 guys with flamers and when they all lay down their templates they can only hit 2 guys each in the target unit. For each flame template its the same 2 guys too.

The target unit has 20 models total.

Its possable, even though only 2 of the target unit's models are in range, for all 20 models to die.

 Grey Templar wrote:
The rules basically work like this.

You measure to see which model's weapons have range to the enemy unit, the roll to hit, wound, saves etc.

It doesn't matter if all 10 of your dudes only had range to one of the enemy, any number of enemy models can die from the shooting.


For example, if we have 10 guys with flamers and when they all lay down their templates they can only hit 2 guys each in the target unit. For each flame template its the same 2 guys too.

The target unit has 20 models total.

Its possable, even though only 2 of the target unit's models are in range, for all 20 models to die.

Thanks that's what we thought.