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Why exactly would Rogue Traders engage in combat themselves and put their lives at risk when they usually have command of entire Imperial Guard regiments? I'm having trouble explaining this to my players...is it because their characters are supposed to have huge egos? Because they don't trust their mercenaries or hired goons? Help me out please!

Tell them it uses the "Star Trek" principle. If they don't like that, work out a way to separate them from their main ship and let them fight for survival on a small ship, Firefly-style.

Rogue Traders have dumb crewmen under him (except named ones, at least for our gang) and must lead my example..

That and no crew will follow a captain who send a few waves of crewmen on a newly discovered planet before going down himself.

That's another thing: the RT *must* put his boot on the gorund to claim a planet as him own. Colombus didn't point to the americas, said "Dibs for Spain!" and then sailed back to Europe....

So they'll always bring enough men along to have enough firepower to face any threats they expect to face?

More or less yes; you can have some bodyguards with them, but to not clog combat or make things too easy for them (dus, hard as hell for you) is to have the opposiiton have bodyguards of thier own so while the crew duke it out, your players can duel Sir-Big bad enemy all the while standing in the middle of a giant battle, therefore attainting the level of epic required to do anything in RT.

Keep in mind as well that while going in 'alone' (as in only the players) may be risky, sometimes stealth is required (or a small team insertion), or the glory/prize/situation requires some bold move, meaning the bodyguards stays back on the ship.

 imark789 wrote:
Why exactly would Rogue Traders engage in combat themselves and put their lives at risk when they usually have command of entire Imperial Guard regiments? I'm having trouble explaining this to my players...is it because their characters are supposed to have huge egos? Because they don't trust their mercenaries or hired goons? Help me out please!

Sure, sounds good.

The average crewmen are either peons, greedy, or both. (So are the RT and friends, but I digress...) You don't want them getting their hands on archeotech that can devastate worlds, they'll do something stupid with it like try to build a better, more equal civilization, instead of trading it to the Adeptus Mechanicus for some tuned-up engines and a spoiler for the ship.

Power diluted is dangerous. If the crew gets used to Redshirt Ralph leading the dangerous missions, who are they going to listen to when there;s an argument over who needs to eat this week?

Or, to put it another way:

"Sure, you can stay on the ship and send in a few squads of troopers. Let's see <rattle, rattle> All dead. They're all dead, Dave. OK, another batch? <rattle, rattle> Huh. yeah, they came abck this time. The guy you put in charge is wearing a golden crown and sparkling with some sort of refractor field. And he's talking about this book of magic he found. By the way, he wants to change course for the Eye of Terror and has a really convincing argument involving not sacrificing you."

I do not think the "average" Rogue Trader has Imperial Guard regiments in his hold. Many do, but average? Not that they'd need them, mind you - a couple hundred or thousand peons recruited from some random world and turned into a lasgun mercenary army are essentially the same thing.

That said, I would say that most often a Rogue Trader engages in personal combat because ... he simply did not expect it. Things like a trade negotiation going badly, a rival's henchmen trying an ambush, random xeno or merc attacks whilst you least expect them! Some Rogue Traders will be driven to act like a conqueror and personally oversee an army of troops, but their willingness to risk their own lives most likely stems from personal flaws such as arrogance and hubris.

"I have no time to die. I'm too busy!"
- Goge Vandire, shortly before being beheaded

Also, I really like the comparison to Columbus. The more I think about it, the more he seems like a perfect example of one.

Also:

It's an RPG. Fun stuff happens to people who do things, not people who sit back and watch.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lynata wrote:
Also, I really like the comparison to Columbus. The more I think about it, the more he seems like a perfect example of one.

Definitely!

The rulebook had an excellent reason for your explorers to actually co-operate as a group and explore and battle in the wake of your legions of faceless recruits. While it's true you can throw 300 men at a problem and it should get resolved their stands the outside chance of ambushes, torturers, failure or worst off desertion or even worse mutiny. Every person must secure their own assets, prove their own command and take the necessary roles to secure the faith of their crew and insure no taint of chaos comes upon their ship, no foul xeno artifact is transported to a new world, no world is half ass claimed for the emperor.

A grunt digs a trench, a commander builds a castle. and if you game master properly in Rogue trader you should make almost any situation demand the attentions of a commander as opposed to a grunt.

There are lots of different kinds of rogue traders. Some are in it for glory and fame, others have different reasons.

For example, I outfitted a universe mass convayer vessel, a cargo ship that's 12 km long, with as many extra storage holds as I could fit in it, a few guns, and ton's of extra armor, to the point it's armor rating was above 40, and I increased the hull by quite a bit.

Then I got the best crew I could, some murder sevitors, and simply flew around making all the money there was, since the only thing that could bug me was lances, of which the murder servitors could disable.

Or maybe your rouge trader captain of the vessel dosen't want his 300 strong imperial guard regiment in the hold with it's captains and commisars to know what he's up to? Rouge traders are well knows for illegal dealings and that's hard to do when staring down the barrel of the local commisar's bolt pistol.

Well, The Rogue Trader is outside of the normal chain of command; the Commissar might be there, but he will act more as a tactical aide or a troop leader than the usual #BLAM# commissar.

Do remember the moment they exit the Imperium, the Rogue Trader equals the Emperor in terms of authority. And no commissar (short of Fucklaw) would shoot the Emperor

That sentence gets tossed around, but ultimately that only works as long as people are willing to stick what it says on your shiny papers. Once convictions push people to believe you overstepped the line, that's that. Just like the High Lords, ruling in the Emperor's name, are not beyond judgment. And I believe even in one of FFG's books there was a reference to the Inquisition hunting down some RT.

I would actually expect many writs to come with certain clauses about what the Rogue Trader is expected to do, opening the possibility of interpreting his actions as a possible violation of his or her contract with the Imperium, essentially causing it to become void, and with it their authority.

On the other hand, at least the Commissar would (should) be a stickler to detail and only intervene in obvious breaches or protocol, rather than some mercenary or pressganged crew who would stab you in the back because of not getting enough food or other such nuisances.

Commissar <->Rogue Trader sounds like a potentially interesting 'balance of power' situation.

Commissar is loyal to the Emperor and Imperium first and only. In gameplay this may become more complex... The Imperium is so dire and precarious that there's a lot of situations where a Commissar might feel the need to do something drastic that in his mind is acting to save the Imperium. Putting a planet to the torch (despite lack of an Inquisitor's power to do so, etc.)... Destroying an artifact or relic that might make the Imperium look bad, etc. And Commissars can be petty/emotionally-driven/corrupt as well, of course.

Rogue Trader's loyalties are a bit more complex. They generally are driven by pursuit of wealth, but may have family obligations, owe favors, and generally are in a gilded cage as captain of an immense independent starship operating outside Imperial control, but need to keep the crew, techpriests, Imperial representatives, creditors, and others happy.

If a Rogue Trader does something 'drastic' to a Commissar onboard, that's risky. If discovered, it could mean the ship gets a new Rogue Trader. The Rogue Trader might get away with it, once, especially if the Commissar is disliked by his own men and/or the ship's crew. Once is an accident, two enemy action. If a RT is motivated to remove a commissar, chances are there's some other history they don't want a light shined on. One might go unnoticed. Two is going to look suspicious and draw attention, maybe even from the Inqusition. At best, the Imperium might withdraw support, and now the ship has no Imperial support in the form of Guardsmen, materials, even shipping. Go have fun with the Xenos, maybe we'll help once your case has been 'reviewed' in a few decades.

If a Commissar kills a Rogue Trader for crimes against the Imperium, he's not in a great place either. He's just announced that any crew who don't fall in line will get a similar treatment. The crew he needs to depend on know the ship. They know how to avoid any security systems. They know where supplies are kept. They can make the Commissar's life very miserable, or make it shorter than expected.

Of course, do commissars even have any real 'legal' jurisdiction over a RT? Other than generally being willing to shoot the unloyal?

In the long run, it might be better for a Rogue Trader to convince a corrupt Commissar to ship out with him. At least the corrupt one can be bargained with.

That's the beauty of it. Doesn't even need a Commissar - any person with "perceived authority" adds this potential. Even the Rogue Trader's own ship confessor could become a problem if he suddenly starts to develop an own agenda driven by zealous faith ... and the bulk of the crew following him like the sheep they are.

Plot potential right there.

I don't believe a Commissar would have direct legal authority over a Rogue Trader, just like he would have no legal authority over a Space Marine Chapter Master, an Arbites Commander, a Sororitas Canoness or a Ministorum Preacher. However, certain actions could possibly lead the Rogue Trader's companions to label him or her a traitor, at which point the Imperial Creed would demand intervention. Needless to say, a Commissar, being firmly indoctrinated in the Schola Progenium, would have a very black-and-white view on things, and as such be as valuable as dangerous to have around. Immensely loyal and capable ... as long as you make it abundantly clear where your loyalties are.

Corrupt Commissars (as in "can be bribed") are probably quite hard to find, but then again I'm extrapolating solely from GW's own writing on the subject and freely dismissing certain novels - so I suppose it is just a matter of interpretation.

But if I were a Rogue Trader and would plan "something strange", I'd either make sure the Commissar(s) suffer a series of ... accidents ... whilst in transit to the ship's location - or just hire / press-gang a bunch of mercenaries rather than a regiment of Imperial Guard. It all depends on what you're planning for!

Glad we have started plot ideas flashing away.

I definitely agree that having a "authority figure' would be an interesting counterbalance to the Rogue Trader's authority. An idea I had for an RT game (I'll almost certainly never use this, so steal away. ) was that the ship actually had a moderately impressive section that was a 'family estate' for the RT's family. They're too busy playing politics, dealing with some sort of obligation, etc.to intervene often, but is literally right there. COnveneinet as a game device, too: if the PC Rogue Trader buys it, the family can send another scion out to deal with the matters at hand.

An interesting revision of this is the idea that the Imperium is a mad, twisted bureaucracy at it's heart.Maybe the noble family is ont he ship because of a decree that was never rescinded... Something like "If the head of the family sets foot on a planet, their RT commission is considered null and void" and due to some crime, the family is engaged in near-constant acts of penance in their on-board suite (which would be a 'mansion' to most people) and only a scion acting as the RT can go otu and do stuff and is in charge of the ship, but cannot also be head of the family.

 Lynata wrote:
Corrupt Commissars (as in "can be bribed") are probably quite hard to find, but then again I'm extrapolating solely from GW's own writing on the subject and freely dismissing certain novels - so I suppose it is just a matter of interpretation.

I think I tend to assume that written GW material is often biased towards the Imperium and ignores things like corruption in the Commissar ranks. it's probably not common, but I think it's plausible.

 Lynata wrote:

But if I were a Rogue Trader and would plan "something strange", I'd either make sure the Commissar(s) suffer a series of ... accidents ... whilst in transit to the ship's location - or just hire / press-gang a bunch of mercenaries rather than a regiment of Imperial Guard. It all depends on what you're planning for!

Very true! Hauling Guard seems liek more of a 'job' than a 'benefit.' Sure, they're well-armed for boarding, planetary missions, etc... But they probably have their own mission and want to go somewhere.