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This story is getting *some* play over here, but it seems like it's a pretty big deal in the UK. I'm just wondering what the UK Dakkites have to say about the situation.
Would this be like finding out Fred Rodgers was a pederast?
Was there any public opinion that this guy was a creep? He definitely looks like a chester but then that could just be the crappy 70's TV persona costume.
Is the fact that he was doing this (allegedly) a shock, or is it more outrage at the (alleged) cover-up?
Since I have a forum where I can ask my internet friends directly, I'm just really curious what the average Brit really thinks...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/26 17:33:55
Veteran Sergeant wrote:Oh wait. His fluff, at this point, has him coming to blows with Lionel, Angryon, Magnus, and The Emprah. One can only assume he went into the Eye of Terror because he still hadn't had a chance to punch enough Primarchs yet.
Albatross wrote:I guess we'll never know. That is, until Frazzled releases his long-awaited solo album 'Touch My Weiner'. Then we'll know.
warboss wrote:I marvel at their ability to shoot the entire foot off with a shotgun instead of pistol shooting individual toes off like most businesses would.
Mr Nobody wrote:Going to war naked always seems like a good idea until someone trips on gravel.
Ghidorah wrote: You need to quit hating and trying to control other haters hating on other people's hobbies that they are trying to control.
ShumaGorath wrote:Posting in a thread where fat nerds who play with toys make fun of fat nerds who wear costumes outdoors.
Marshal2Crusaders wrote:Good thing it wasn't attacked by the EC, or it would be the assault on Magnir's Crack.
We would have to know what role Fred Rodgers played in US popular culture in the past 40 years.
Jimmy Saville always seemed a bit creepy to me but I just put that down to him being lower class and eccentric. I enjoyed his TV show “Jim’ll Fix It”.
That said, I am genuinely shocked at the allegations that have come out. It's difficult to believe they are false, though. The question now is who else might have been involved, and whether there was a cover up by the BBC.
As far as I can see at the moment, what happened is that one high ranking BBC editor took a questionable decision to shelve a documentary investigation into the abuse claims, in favour of the tribute programme to be broadcast after Saville’s death.
While this was an ill-judged move, the fact that one part of the BBC was able to investigate Saville surely argues against a widespread institutional cover up.
Thus I am puzzled by the headlines about this being the worst crisis for the BBC for years. They seem over-stated. Saville wasn’t an exclusive BBC employee. He worked and perved at a number of places, any of which might have outed him but didn’t.
The whole affair calls into question the whole of society and the role of celebrity status in deflecting attention from bad behaviour.
Brits love eccentrics. Savile was very eccentric and was often working with children. Therefore it was always likely he'd be suspected or it would be alluded to that he was a child molester. He was well liked and raised millions for charity but certainly had a shadowy edge to him.
He never seemed to have relationships and lived with his elderly mother 'the duchess' until her death and even then kept all her clothes and stuff (if you want a window into this weirdo's life, the Louie Theroux documentary about him was an eyebrow raiser).
In fact, so easy would it have been to say 'that jimmy savile felt me up' after he died, that I was very skeptical of the initial allegations, sheer weight of numbers coming forward now would seem to lend strength to the alleged crimes.
(Kilkrazy, Mr Rodgers was a well loved children's tv presenter here, I made the similar comparison to demonstrate to my wife and she looked at me like she wanted to kill me slowly with a blunt instrument, so he was not a controversial figure like Savile, but more like Jonny Ball or Rolf Harris, only more haloed).
I wasn't really around when he was on TV (The only time I saw him was the final episode of Top of the Pops, but I think it's a combination of the fact that he was such a well known personality, who a large portion of the public held in high regard.
That combined with the fact that it appears that there have been many occasions when he could have been stopped or investigated, without anything occurring, combine to turn it into the furore you can see today.
I don't think there are too many people between the ages of say 18 and 40 who didn't have their childhood touched by the guy. He was the soft-voiced face of high-brow kids TV for over 30 years. Legendary nice guy, and pretty much seen as an all around great person. He's a dude who was basically revered across three generations (two generations of people who grew up with him, and their parents), as sort of the pinnacle of a quality children's entertainer.
He really talked to kids in a way that was honest, direct but not at all intimidating. He got down to your level without being condescending, he was an adult but you felt like you could relate with the guy and he could relate with you even from inside the TV.
I remember being a little tiny kid and always being very frustrated with the puppet segments on his show, because I was tuning him to see him not those scratchy voice weirdos and whatever that cat thing was.
It is almost impossible to overstate how well regarded Fred Rogers was during his life and today.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2012/10/26 19:51:33
It is almost impossible to overstate how well regarded Fred Rogers was during his life and today.
True story. I don't care how badass you think you are, if you're between the ages of 25 and 50 then Mr. Rodgers positively impacted your life. And that's only slightly hyperbolic.
I asked because I was curious how highly regarded Jimmy S. was, if it were anywhere close to Mr. Rodgers then this would be a tragedy of truly epic proportions.
Veteran Sergeant wrote:Oh wait. His fluff, at this point, has him coming to blows with Lionel, Angryon, Magnus, and The Emprah. One can only assume he went into the Eye of Terror because he still hadn't had a chance to punch enough Primarchs yet.
Albatross wrote:I guess we'll never know. That is, until Frazzled releases his long-awaited solo album 'Touch My Weiner'. Then we'll know.
warboss wrote:I marvel at their ability to shoot the entire foot off with a shotgun instead of pistol shooting individual toes off like most businesses would.
Mr Nobody wrote:Going to war naked always seems like a good idea until someone trips on gravel.
Ghidorah wrote: You need to quit hating and trying to control other haters hating on other people's hobbies that they are trying to control.
ShumaGorath wrote:Posting in a thread where fat nerds who play with toys make fun of fat nerds who wear costumes outdoors.
Marshal2Crusaders wrote:Good thing it wasn't attacked by the EC, or it would be the assault on Magnir's Crack.
It is almost impossible to overstate how well regarded Fred Rogers was during his life and today.
True story. I don't care how badass you think you are, if you're between the ages of 25 and 50 then Mr. Rodgers positively impacted your life. And that's only slightly hyperbolic.
I asked because I was curious how highly regarded Jimmy S. was, if it were anywhere close to Mr. Rodgers then this would be a tragedy of truly epic proportions.
No, he was always considered 'odd' and out there and there were many who absolutely disliked him, my dad being one of them, due to his behaviour and outspoken political beliefs.
Honestly couldn't care much about it. I find it strange how all these people are suddenly speaking up now, and have yet to see anything that convinces me he actually did anything. I see it as a matter of jumping on the bandwagon, at least that is my impression.
Bruins fan till the end.
Never assume anything, it will only make an ass of you and me.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: Brits love eccentrics. Savile was very eccentric and was often working with children. Therefore it was always likely he'd be suspected or it would be alluded to that he was a child molester. He was well liked and raised millions for charity but certainly had a shadowy edge to him.
He never seemed to have relationships and lived with his elderly mother 'the duchess' until her death and even then kept all her clothes and stuff (if you want a window into this weirdo's life, the Louie Theroux documentary about him was an eyebrow raiser).
In fact, so easy would it have been to say 'that jimmy savile felt me up' after he died, that I was very skeptical of the initial allegations, sheer weight of numbers coming forward now would seem to lend strength to the alleged crimes.
(Kilkrazy, Mr Rodgers was a well loved children's tv presenter here, I made the similar comparison to demonstrate to my wife and she looked at me like she wanted to kill me slowly with a blunt instrument, so he was not a controversial figure like Savile, but more like Jonny Ball or Rolf Harris, only more haloed).
Yes, exactly what you say.
(A friend at work wondered if Timmy Mallett will be implicated next.)
It is almost impossible to overstate how well regarded Fred Rogers was during his life and today.
True story. I don't care how badass you think you are, if you're between the ages of 25 and 50 then Mr. Rodgers positively impacted your life. And that's only slightly hyperbolic.
25? He was around longer than that. I mean heck, the show was still really popular into what the late 90s? The kids who were 3 or 4 at that time are still teenagers.
basically in it they sum up that he was so weird and unusual he could almost hide in plain sight as this very eccentric personality. I was never around for his stuff but it's still kinda shocking
Currently debating whether to study for my exams or paint some Deathwing
As far as I can see at the moment, what happened is that one high ranking BBC editor took a questionable decision to shelve a documentary investigation into the abuse claims, in favour of the tribute programme to be broadcast after Saville’s death.
The Newsnight item was supposedly shelved as the allegations couldn't be independently verified (IIRC by the police).
RegalPhantom wrote: If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog
As far as I can see at the moment, what happened is that one high ranking BBC editor took a questionable decision to shelve a documentary investigation into the abuse claims, in favour of the tribute programme to be broadcast after Saville’s death.
The Newsnight item was supposedly shelved as the allegations couldn't be independently verified (IIRC by the police).
It's not completely clear atm but some think it was because they wanted to run tributes to him when he died
Currently debating whether to study for my exams or paint some Deathwing
Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote: basically in it they sum up that he was so weird and unusual he could almost hide in plain sight as this very eccentric personality. I was never around for his stuff but it's still kinda shocking
Indeed, and, if this is all true (which I think it is) he was working with a lot of the institutions for teens, disabled teens, troubled young people and given a large measure of trust... Then you couple that with the distances (all over the country so less chance of linking up allegations made by 'disruptive' and 'untrustworthy' girls in various institutions) and the backdrop of the times (late 70s, early 80s) when these institutions weren't policed as they should have been and a young person speaking up would have been met with dismissal or reprisal. They were also far less informed times for young people, no internet or mobile phones to open up communication and so many will have felt isolated and intimidated by raising a claim against a national celebrity.
Also, before he was a children's entertainer, Savile was a DJ first and involved in the sex and drugs and rocknroll of previous decades, where young women were groupies and several 'stars' allude to have had sex with underage girls.
Our old 'friend' Ted Nugent for instance, or the now entirely notorious Gary Glitter.
Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote: basically in it they sum up that he was so weird and unusual he could almost hide in plain sight as this very eccentric personality. I was never around for his stuff but it's still kinda shocking
Indeed, and, if this is all true (which I think it is) he was working with a lot of the institutions for teens, disabled teens, troubled young people and given a large measure of trust... Then you couple that with the distances (all over the country so less chance of linking up allegations made by 'disruptive' and 'untrustworthy' girls in various institutions) and the backdrop of the times (late 70s, early 80s) when these institutions weren't policed as they should have been and a young person speaking up would have been met with dismissal or reprisal. They were also far less informed times for young people, no internet or mobile phones to open up communication and so many will have felt isolated and intimidated by raising a claim against a national celebrity.
Also, before he was a children's entertainer, Savile was a DJ first and involved in the sex and drugs and rocknroll of previous decades, where young women were groupies and several 'stars' allude to have had sex with underage girls.
Our old 'friend' Ted Nugent for instance, or the now entirely notorious Gary Glitter.
Glitter apparently worked with Saville on at least one occasion as least according to the panorama report
As well as this if a victim did ,try to tell the police it would just be their word against an OBE honoured Superstar TV presenter/DJ Presenter
Currently debating whether to study for my exams or paint some Deathwing
Fred Rogers served as a sniper or as a Navy Seal during the Vietnam War, with a large number of confirmed kills to his credit.
This same rumor has often been applied to boyish country singer-songwriter John Denver (among others), and it's just as false when told of Fred Rogers. Not only did Fred Rogers never serve in the military, there are no gaps in his career when he could conceivably have served in the military — he went straight into college after high school, he moved directly into TV work after graduating college, and his breaks from television work were devoted to attending the Pittsburgh Theological Seminary (he was ordained as a Presbyterian minister in 1963) and the University of Pittsburgh's Graduate School of Child Development. Moreover, Fred Rogers was born in 1928 and was therefore too old to have enlisted in the armed services by the time of America's military involvement in Vietnam.
Fred Rogers always wore long-sleeved shirts and sweaters on his show to conceal the tattoos on his arms he obtained while serving in the military.
As noted above, Fred Rogers never served in the military, and he bore no tattoos on his arms (or any other part of his body). He wore long-sleeved shirts and sweaters on his show to maintain an air of formality — although he was friendly with the children in his viewing audience and talked to them on their own level, he was most definitely an authority figure on a par with parents and teachers (he was Mister Rogers to them, after all, not Fred), and his choice of dress was intended to establish and foster that relationship.
Doesn't stop the man from being a freaking saint though, Mr. Rodgers was WAY better then Barney and other children's programming.
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
The worrying thing about the Saville case was that he seemed to be reasonably well-known for this stuff within the organisation, but they just seemed to turn a blind eye because he was a huge star. I mean, even if only a handful of the allegations I've heard about what he got up to in his dressing-room on BBC property are true, then how could they not know?
It's also worrying how acceptable this stuff seems to have been in the 70s - Jimmy Page had a 14 year old girlfriend, and John Peel had admitted he may have slept with underage girls. Plus, there was the story about him getting an underage girl pregnant (she was 15 and had an abortion, iirc), but it seems to have been buried by the BBC. They just haven't touched it at all, presumably because he is so well-loved both within the organisation and by indie music fans of a certain age.
And I'm sick of people saying 'we shouldn't use this as a stick to beat the BBC with'. Bollocks. I love the Beeb, but we pay them an absolute fortune, and the least they can do in return is protect children in their care from predatory sex-offenders. They messed up, there should be consequences.
Albatross wrote: The worrying thing about the Saville case was that he seemed to be reasonably well-known for this stuff within the organisation, but they just seemed to turn a blind eye because he was a huge star. I mean, even if only a handful of the allegations I've heard about what he got up to in his dressing-room on BBC property are true, then how could they not know?
It's also worrying how acceptable this stuff seems to have been in the 70s - Jimmy Page had a 14 year old girlfriend, and John Peel had admitted he may have slept with underage girls. Plus, there was the story about him getting an underage girl pregnant (she was 15 and had an abortion, iirc), but it seems to have been buried by the BBC. They just haven't touched it at all, presumably because he is so well-loved both within the organisation and by indie music fans of a certain age.
And I'm sick of people saying 'we shouldn't use this as a stick to beat the BBC with'. Bollocks. I love the Beeb, but we pay them an absolute fortune, and the least they can do in return is protect children in their care from predatory sex-offenders. They messed up, there should be consequences.
Peel's girlfriend was 16 I think, he was late 20s. That's hardly the same as Savile's predation of the vulnerable. This lass was hardly a victim in this.
Albatross wrote: The worrying thing about the Saville case was that he seemed to be reasonably well-known for this stuff within the organisation, but they just seemed to turn a blind eye because he was a huge star. I mean, even if only a handful of the allegations I've heard about what he got up to in his dressing-room on BBC property are true, then how could they not know?
It's also worrying how acceptable this stuff seems to have been in the 70s - Jimmy Page had a 14 year old girlfriend, and John Peel had admitted he may have slept with underage girls. Plus, there was the story about him getting an underage girl pregnant (she was 15 and had an abortion, iirc), but it seems to have been buried by the BBC. They just haven't touched it at all, presumably because he is so well-loved both within the organisation and by indie music fans of a certain age.
And I'm sick of people saying 'we shouldn't use this as a stick to beat the BBC with'. Bollocks. I love the Beeb, but we pay them an absolute fortune, and the least they can do in return is protect children in their care from predatory sex-offenders. They messed up, there should be consequences.
Peel's girlfriend was 16 I think, he was late 20s. That's hardly the same as Savile's predation of the vulnerable. This lass was hardly a victim in this.
She first slept with him when she was 15 according to her, but yeah she got pregnant at 16 so the story goes. She's not the only one though - he alluded to having sex with underage girls when he was working in the States covering the Beatles. It's in his autobiography, as far as I can remember. It's been a while since I read it. He pretty much owned up to it in subsequent interviews in any case.
And no, it's not the same. It is a pretty damning indictment of the culture within the broadcasting and entertainment industries during that period, though.
The only reason the BBC looks bad at the moment is the Murdoch press digging in, and I would bet good money that the government is briefing against the BBC.
Unnessesarily extravegant word of the week award goes to jcress410 for this:
jcress wrote:Seem super off topic to complain about epistemology on a thread about tactics.
Testify wrote: The only reason the BBC looks bad at the moment is the Murdoch press digging in, and I would bet good money that the government is briefing against the BBC.
Veteran Sergeant wrote:Oh wait. His fluff, at this point, has him coming to blows with Lionel, Angryon, Magnus, and The Emprah. One can only assume he went into the Eye of Terror because he still hadn't had a chance to punch enough Primarchs yet.
Albatross wrote:I guess we'll never know. That is, until Frazzled releases his long-awaited solo album 'Touch My Weiner'. Then we'll know.
warboss wrote:I marvel at their ability to shoot the entire foot off with a shotgun instead of pistol shooting individual toes off like most businesses would.
Mr Nobody wrote:Going to war naked always seems like a good idea until someone trips on gravel.
Ghidorah wrote: You need to quit hating and trying to control other haters hating on other people's hobbies that they are trying to control.
ShumaGorath wrote:Posting in a thread where fat nerds who play with toys make fun of fat nerds who wear costumes outdoors.
Marshal2Crusaders wrote:Good thing it wasn't attacked by the EC, or it would be the assault on Magnir's Crack.
There’s definitely a few axes being ground against the BBC at the moment, by other media organisations and MPs. The rumours about Jimmy Savile have been around for decades, it’s not something that’s confined to the BBC. Turns out Jerry Sadowitz was spot on back in 1987.
There’s the potential a lot of heads will roll over this not just in the BBC but other media personalities and politicians. His bizarre relationship with Thatcher deserves more scrutiny than I feel it will ever be allowed to get. How the hell does a dodgy radio DJ get into positions of power at Broadmoor and other state institutions?
I suspect though the whole thing is just going to descended into a late 90s style paedogeddon hysterical farce, with mobs once again marching on the houses of Pediatricians A few people locked up some heads roll, but too many questions left unanswered as there lost in the media feeding frenzy.
Albatross wrote: The worrying thing about the Saville case was that he seemed to be reasonably well-known for this stuff within the organisation, but they just seemed to turn a blind eye because he was a huge star. I mean, even if only a handful of the allegations I've heard about what he got up to in his dressing-room on BBC property are true, then how could they not know?
It's also worrying how acceptable this stuff seems to have been in the 70s - Jimmy Page had a 14 year old girlfriend, and John Peel had admitted he may have slept with underage girls. Plus, there was the story about him getting an underage girl pregnant (she was 15 and had an abortion, iirc), but it seems to have been buried by the BBC. They just haven't touched it at all, presumably because he is so well-loved both within the organisation and by indie music fans of a certain age.
And I'm sick of people saying 'we shouldn't use this as a stick to beat the BBC with'. Bollocks. I love the Beeb, but we pay them an absolute fortune, and the least they can do in return is protect children in their care from predatory sex-offenders. They messed up, there should be consequences.
I was around in the 1970s (I am 50 years old) and from my experience there were two things that were different about the situation in those times.
The first thing is that it wasn't seen as so disreputable to be interested in underage teenagers as now. I mean, The Sweeney on TV openly had banter about how sexy schoolgirls were in their long white socks and blazers. Such talk might almost get you arrested nowadays.
Secondly, and related to the first, there wasn't the awareness of the whole issue, or the degree of concern (almost demonisation) about the whole thing. People made jokes about scoutmasters, for example, but there was not a general perception of a widespread problem in society.
Things have become a lot more open and aware, which is a good thing, but it makes the social situation of the 1970s harder to understand with our modern perception. The law has changed a lot and made a change in perceptions.
I think it will be very difficult to find and punish people for lack of care 40 years ago. The seniors are probably nearly dead. Saville himself got away with it. Should the juniors be punished?
Stoke Mandeville and other institutions had an equal if not greater duty of trust to the children in their care, and equally failed, so why pick the BBC
There is a good chance Stoke Mandeville didnt know what was going on. All accusations i read about (not conclusive) alleged Savile acted very briefly while alone with a young person. This indicates any alleged assaults were opportunistic and that Savile did not have the backing of staff.
Due to his enormous popularity as a childrens television presenter there was no reason for anyone to suspect anything if those in the leading media clearly endorsed him.
What allegedly happened in the BBC dressing rooms was apparently directly witnessed by a number of people. The BBC did nothing about it.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
cpt_fishcakes wrote: There’s definitely a few axes being ground against the BBC at the moment, by other media organisations and MPs. The rumours about Jimmy Savile have been around for decades, it’s not something that’s confined to the BBC.
He was a BBC employee! And you're right, lots of BBC sources have come out and said that they'd heard the rumours, some even going so far as to imply that they may have witnessed untoward activity. Journalists within the organisation compiled an investigation into him and it was shelved.
What are people supposed to say about all this? The BBC has fethed up, massively. And I say this as a passionate supporter of the organisation. I love their programming. It's worth every penny.
His bizarre relationship with Thatcher deserves more scrutiny than I feel it will ever be allowed to get.
Yeah, no axe being ground there...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Testify wrote: The only reason the BBC looks bad at the moment is the Murdoch press digging in, and I would bet good money that the government is briefing against the BBC.
I think it's more to do with the fact that
there was a paedophile ring at the BBC and they did nothing about it!
Jesus. Some things just go beyond politics, man.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/28 17:26:02
there was a paedophile ring at the BBC and they did nothing about it!
Surely that is still under investigation. Was the BBC itself complicit? I very much doubt it.
There seems to have been a lot of looking the other way but the BBC is far from alone there. The whole thing has become a witchhunt by the usual print media suspects.
I'm sure that the police investigation will look into his links with government.
RegalPhantom wrote: If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog
One can only assume he went into the Eye of Terror because he still hadn't had a chance to punch enough Primarchs yet. 
