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Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General





Beijing, China

So how many of the boons are worth the possible risks. If you take Gift of mutation are these gifts worth the 10 point cost? Would you take any of these boons if you could for 10 points.
11-16 not worth 10 points
21-22 you get a 30 point model but end up losing a 23+ point model unless it was a cultist. cannot happen with a gift, not really worth it
23 Warp Frenzy: nice but not really worth 10 points
24 Fragments of Immortality: great on an IC but most characters cannot use this one bit as they have one wound
25 Strength of the Bezerker: not worth 10 points
26 Arcane Occulum: not worth 10 points unless it is a witchfire sorc.
31 Cerebral Cogitator: not worth 10 points. Inititive is often worthless
32 Bloated Definitly: worth it!
33 Crysalline Body: probably worth 10 points
34 Shield of Force: probably the best thing you can roll, useful for all
35 Mechanoid: Worth it Unless you are in 2+ armor or a cultist
36 Blade of chaos: worth 10 points on any melee character
41 Witch Eater: Not worth 10 points, most characters still need 6+ to deny the witch.
42 Cosmic Fate: Worth 10 points but not much more.
43 Venomous: Worth it for a melee character but just barely.
44 Unholy Crusader: ooo we can run faster! too bad bikes and terminators cannot run. even so it wouldnt be worth 10 points
45 Meteoric Charge: a free hit when you charge... possibly worth it but likely not going to get used or if it is, likely not going to be too great.
46 Icy Aura: Good, just worth 10 points in the right circumstances
51 Adimantium Will: not worth 10 points. Laughable
52 Gun Morth: not worth 10 points
53 Hatred: so your VotlW chaos lord rolls hatred incarnate for his warlord trait and then gets this on his chaos gift. Not worth 10 points
54 Warp Claws: worth it for a melee character but just barely
55 Lifetaker: potentially worth it
56 Blademaster: not worth it
61 Voice of Horus: for something with such a cool name it could be better. Probably not worth it
62 Temporal Distortion: Garbage
63 Masochism: Worth it
64 Multiple Rewards: Yay, this is worth it if the rest of the table is.
65-66 good for most character although not ideal. Cannot happen on a gift.

so I am getting 12 options that are probably worth 10 points, 1 that is probably worth 30 points. So 13/36 options are worth 10 points, 6 do nothing, another 6 are so terrible you might as well not even keep track and 6 that are worth 3-5 points. I am not sure Gift is worth 10 points. Similarly I am not sure Boon is worth the chance of perils or the Str4 hit.

Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++  
   
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For the maximum value of gift of mutation you'd have to assign a points value to every result assuming it's a benefit and then average the total.

I'd guarantee that a weighted average would be at greater than 7 pts.

Bottom line is that it's random and in a competitive environment only take gift of mutation if you have points to spare.
   
Made in us
Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores





I'm going to steal your format because I'm not writing that much. I'll rate them 1,2, or 3 next to the dice roll.

(1) 11-16: sucks, better luck next time.
(2) 21-22: GoM says reroll, works for me!
(3) 23 Warp Frenzy: Character dependent, but I hope for this one on powerfists and well... everything. Chaos used to pay 10pts for +1 attack on Champs
(1) 24 Fragments of Immortality: Limited utility, but not enough HQ choices get EW.
(3) 25 Strength of the Bezerker: Oh hell yes. I'm only buying GoM on fighting champs, and this is good for fighting.
(2) 26 Arcane Occulum: More of a meh, but I usually have combi-plasma on champs so I could see some use.
(2) 31 Cerebral Cogitator: +1 initiative can be worth the 10pts, depending on the champ. +1 initiative wins the duel...
(3) 32 Bloated: GoM only works pre-game, so always +1 wound. Easily worth the gamble.
(3) 33 Crysalline Body: My plague marines live on T5.
(2) 34 Shield of Force: Not many downsides, but many champs won't benefit from it as much.
(3) 35 Mechanoid: I agree with you on this (Worth it Unless you are in 2+ armor or a cultist)
(3) 36 Blade of chaos: Excellent option
(2) 41 Witch Eater: Situational, but it bites back hard.
(3) 42 Cosmic Fate: Pretty solid, especially in terminator armor.
(3) 43 Venomous: Poison lightning claws? Yes. Situational? Mostly.
(2) 44 Unholy Crusader: Situational, but foot units will love this.
(1) 45 Meteoric Charge: Just one unmodified strike from my champ? Pass. Ability is only worth it when a whole squad hits IMO.
(2) 46 Icy Aura: Good way to hurt anybody not in the challenge.
(1) 51 Adamantium Will: Not bad, but easily low on this list.
(1) 52 Gun Morph: Only really cool on combi-weapons. Which is hard to predict.
(2) 53 Hatred: It's ok. I'm not really buying VoTLW for my fearless squads so I might get some use out of it. But not worth the gamble.
(3) 54 Warp Claws: The champion (to include shooting) has the ability. I pay twice the cost for lightning claws as I do for a power weapon. Way worth it.
(2) 55 Lifetaker: I shouldn't be IC hunting with a normal champ, but I do have to challenge...
(3) 56 Blademaster: Pretty cool. In an MEQ world I'm now hitting on 3+. Khorne players know how bad#$% WS5 is.
(2) 61 Voice of Horus: Worthless on cult troops, amazing for everything else. (I've been told) Stubborn is pretty legit.
(1) 62 Temporal Distortion: The whole unit needs to have it, reducing the utility of this to solo HQ choices.
(3) 63 Masochism: Amazing!
(3) 64 Multiple Rewards: Jackpot.
(2) 65-66: GoM says reroll, works for me!

(3)= 12 results
(2)= 11 results
(1)= 6 results

Now the scores were my opinion, but I think a 3 is worth more than the points. I think 2s are worth just around what you pay. I'm counting enough good ones to balance. But I think this matters more on who you buy this for. Looking over the list, the lower scores don't benefit everything. The really bad ones benefit shooting mostly. So the way I'm interpreting this is the table is VERY generalist. So the solution is take it on generalists. Obviously the table (and chaos if you think about it) gears towards stabby, so only take it on stabby leaders of stabby units. The more generalist you can make your leaders (combi, some kind of power weapon, etc) the more they will live off this table. I would avoid specialist units like terminators, bikes and raptors. Parts of the table just don't apply to them.
   
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Beijing, China

Humblesteve wrote:
I'm going to steal your format because I'm not writing that much. I'll rate them 1,2, or 3 next to the dice roll.

(2) 34 Shield of Force: Not many downsides, but many champs won't benefit from it as much.



stealth and shrouded confer from one model to the whole unit making this one easily the best imho. Even on cultists or regular CSM it is awesome but on plagues where you get stealth from blight grenades or on bikes who normally rock a 5+ or 4+ coversave in the open this is godly.
Disagree with some of them with you, +1 init on init 1 or init 5 isnt very helpful and even on 4 it is very likely that you are facing someone not init 4
+1 strength is not as good as shred or posion and imho not worth 5 points.

Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++  
   
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 Exergy wrote:
Humblesteve wrote:
I'm going to steal your format because I'm not writing that much. I'll rate them 1,2, or 3 next to the dice roll.

(2) 34 Shield of Force: Not many downsides, but many champs won't benefit from it as much.



stealth and shrouded confer from one model to the whole unit making this one easily the best imho. Even on cultists or regular CSM it is awesome but on plagues where you get stealth from blight grenades or on bikes who normally rock a 5+ or 4+ coversave in the open this is godly.
Disagree with some of them with you, +1 init on init 1 or init 5 isnt very helpful and even on 4 it is very likely that you are facing someone not init 4
+1 strength is not as good as shred or posion and imho not worth 5 points.


Oh, didn't realize the bit about stealth and shroud. I agree that's pretty incredible in that case. Yeah, obviously +1int on powerfists is wasted, but I still think I5 really runs the fight in an MEQ scenario. On str I think it's situational. A powerfist with S9 can now threaten vehicles better. Shred and poison really can't help much on powerfists.

I'll admit, most of what I said up there was from death guard with powerfist champs. I think you might be undervaluing the table a little bit, and I personally think normal champions benefit the most from the table.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/28 03:21:39


 
   
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cedar rapids, iowa

I personally think all but the non power roll are awesome. But it depends on how you play. If you roll with the min not the Max then you don't lose anything if you spawn. There is only room to go up

 
   
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 sfshilo wrote:
I personally think all but the non power roll are awesome. But it depends on how you play. If you roll with the min not the Max then you don't lose anything if you spawn. There is only room to go up


Well you cant spawn or demon off gift so no worries there.
   
Made in us
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Beijing, China

Humblesteve wrote:

I'll admit, most of what I said up there was from death guard with powerfist champs. I think you might be undervaluing the table a little bit, and I personally think normal champions benefit the most from the table.


If you could pick and choose I think some of these would be useful but with the added randomness it decreases the value a bit for me.

Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++  
   
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

Boons also effect some models more than others. A DP has a better chance of getting a better boon result than a cultist champion, for example.
   
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Again, if you're looking for ultimate reliability, the chaos codex is not for you. Kill off your champions before they get boons and don't take gift of mutation. Otherwise, just accwpt the boons tabke exists and try and have some fun with them.
   
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Fleshound of Khorne




you actually can get a prince fromGOM
you just have to roll it on the reroll

Send guardsmen at it!
 
   
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Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu





Eaton Rapids, MI

firl21 wrote:
you actually can get a prince fromGOM
you just have to roll it on the reroll


Page number and reasoning?

Fly Molo of Dark Future Gaming!
http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/ 
   
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firl21 wrote:
you actually can get a prince fromGOM
you just have to roll it on the reroll


Not really. Those results are ignored.
   
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Fleshound of Khorne




 Brymm wrote:
firl21 wrote:
you actually can get a prince fromGOM
you just have to roll it on the reroll


Page number and reasoning?

pg 67 from csm dex
"Do not apply any spawnhood or dark apothesois result: roll again on the table instead. that model has that result for the entire game

and pg 5 BRB
The second roll counts, even if it means a worse result than the first, and no single dice can be re rolled more than once, regardless of the source o the reroll

so RAW from the CSM dex says you ignore the DA and SH results on the first roll, " roll again on the table instead. that model has that result for the entire game"
referring to the re-roll. the don't apply rule only refers to the first roll. otherwise it would have said ignore DA and SH again

Send guardsmen at it!
 
   
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That isn't a reroll, it is a "roll again." Sounds the same, but it isn't.

If anything, if you aren't going to allow continuous rolls until you come up with something else, then you still fall back to "ignore any Spawnhood and Dark Apotheosis" which means that, if the secpnd roll/reroll/roll again result is one of those, you ignore it. No way can you suddenly accept it.
   
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somerandomdude wrote:
That isn't a reroll, it is a "roll again." Sounds the same, but it isn't.

If anything, if you aren't going to allow continuous rolls until you come up with something else, then you still fall back to "ignore any Spawnhood and Dark Apotheosis" which means that, if the secpnd roll/reroll/roll again result is one of those, you ignore it. No way can you suddenly accept it.


Ehh the way its worded seems weird than. the dex has weird rules like abbadon and such. I guess ill have to ask gw about this.
But your argument is solid which is rare for the internet

Send guardsmen at it!
 
   
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Beijing, China

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Again, if you're looking for ultimate reliability, the chaos codex is not for you. Kill off your champions before they get boons and don't take gift of mutation. Otherwise, just accwpt the boons tabke exists and try and have some fun with them.

certainly you just have to live with it, but I was making the post to try to gauge how good these bonuses could be. If the vast majority are not worth 10 points as an upgrade you can choose, I dont know why you would pay 10 points for an upgrade that is random.

Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++  
   
 
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