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2012/10/28 18:30:25
Subject: When did the civil war come to be known as the Horus Heresy?
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Huge Hierodule
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Given the Emperor's antitheism, I can't picture him using 'heretic' as a pejorative. I guess that was a product of the Ecclesiastic culture. Any clues in the fluff as to when the present nomenclature for the civil war came into common use?
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2012/10/28 18:34:12
Subject: When did the civil war come to be known as the Horus Heresy?
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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It's used right away in the HH books but I also find it strange given the Imperium was athiest at the time.
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2012/10/28 18:43:03
Subject: When did the civil war come to be known as the Horus Heresy?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Words are dynamic. "Heresy" doesn't *have* to have theological connotations.
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Unnessesarily extravegant word of the week award goes to jcress410 for this:
jcress wrote:Seem super off topic to complain about epistemology on a thread about tactics.
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2012/10/28 19:29:27
Subject: When did the civil war come to be known as the Horus Heresy?
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Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit
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Who commited Heresy first?
When did begin?
who truely started it because I remember it began before Horus?
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Come into my web, said the spider to the fly.
Come rest your wings, and let us talk eye to eye.
For I am a spider, and you are the fly. Now that you are here, let us sit, and say hi.
But I have have no morsel to share, nor anything to eat. But wait, what is that stickiness upon your feet.
Ah now I have you, now I can eat. Now I can enjoy you, or store you as meat.
For I am the spider, and you are the fly. How else could it have gone, between one such as you, and one such as I.
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2012/10/28 19:35:34
Subject: When did the civil war come to be known as the Horus Heresy?
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Twisted Trueborn with Blaster
Fredericton, NB
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Testify beat me to it.
Heresy is a belief or theory which strongly contradicts/differs from established beliefs or customs.
While it has been historically linked with religious organizations , it is not a specifically theologically related term. You can be a political heretic, or a scientific heretic, just as easily as being a Pelagian or some other religious heretic.
More specifically to 40k:
Horus' rebellion and acceptance/support of Chaos is heretical to the Imperial Truth as set out by the Emperor.
There Heresey (while commonly reffering to the war) is actually the deviation from the Imperial Truth by worshiping Chaos (an idea antithetical to the Emperor's Atheism)
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Know thy self. Everything follows this.
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2012/10/28 19:37:00
Subject: When did the civil war come to be known as the Horus Heresy?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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There are plenty of examples of "heresy" that does not have an actual religious connotation.
That being said however the Emperor was not anti-religion he was anti-chaos. He wanted to instill an enlightened non-theistic human culture in order to sap the Chaos gods of their source of power so he could go after them while they were in a weakened state. Using the terms heretic and heresy would have been second nature to a "person" who had been around for thousands of years before the birth of Christ.
They quickly begin to use the term daemon when referring to creatures from the warp because it is the most apt description they have from the common linguistic/cultural backgrounds among the humans of the 30th millennium.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/28 19:37:06
Las Vegas Open Head Judge
I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings or pride, but your credentials matter. Even on the internet.
"If you do not have the knowledge, you do not have the right to the opinion." -Plato
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2012/10/28 19:37:42
Subject: When did the civil war come to be known as the Horus Heresy?
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Terrifying Doombull
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The ones that made Horus go bat dropping insane was the ones who caused it. In addition to daddy issues and somewhat lack of foresigth from the big E. But you dont need to be a rocket scientist to realize when you have the second most powerfull man in the galaxy turn around and murderd more Marines and other Imperial citizen you can shake a stick at. It will be known as a heresy or betrayel.
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2012/10/28 20:22:56
Subject: When did the civil war come to be known as the Horus Heresy?
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Huge Hierodule
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Ah. So, it's reasonably consistent for the HH to have been known as such for 10K years.
Would've been cool if that very term was invented by the Ecclesiarchy, but there you go.
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2012/10/28 21:56:22
Subject: When did the civil war come to be known as the Horus Heresy?
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Twisted Trueborn with Blaster
Fredericton, NB
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Ironically enough the Ecclesiarchy/Imperial Cult is also heretical to the Imperial Truth.
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Know thy self. Everything follows this.
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2012/10/29 00:10:51
Subject: When did the civil war come to be known as the Horus Heresy?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Imperium used "heresy" even when it was secular, as you could be heretical towards the Imperial Truth. It became known as the Horus Heresy as soon as the Drop Site Massacre more or less.
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My Armies:
5,500pts 
2,700pts 
2,000pts 
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2012/10/29 01:20:14
Subject: Re:When did the civil war come to be known as the Horus Heresy?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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The Heresy itself is NOT common knowledge, and certaintly not anything approaching the truth, for the average person.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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2012/10/29 19:44:22
Subject: When did the civil war come to be known as the Horus Heresy?
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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In Horus Rising they first use the term Heresy when an Imperial Govenor seceeds from the Imperium IIRC. So basically just the idea of turning away from the Emperor was considered heresy.
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2012/10/29 20:55:55
Subject: When did the civil war come to be known as the Horus Heresy?
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Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit
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We use terms everyday that have roots in religon. I hope they are ok - touch wood - is pagan in orgin, but just because you use the saying does not mean you pagan though.
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Come into my web, said the spider to the fly.
Come rest your wings, and let us talk eye to eye.
For I am a spider, and you are the fly. Now that you are here, let us sit, and say hi.
But I have have no morsel to share, nor anything to eat. But wait, what is that stickiness upon your feet.
Ah now I have you, now I can eat. Now I can enjoy you, or store you as meat.
For I am the spider, and you are the fly. How else could it have gone, between one such as you, and one such as I.
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2012/10/29 23:26:56
Subject: When did the civil war come to be known as the Horus Heresy?
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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It does if you touch wood afterwords.
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2012/10/29 23:36:26
Subject: Re:When did the civil war come to be known as the Horus Heresy?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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I believe the expression is Knock on Wood.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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2012/10/29 23:52:52
Subject: When did the civil war come to be known as the Horus Heresy?
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Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit
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Well maybe I'm pagan, and everyone else I know come to think about it and we don't know it lol.
It might be slightly different depending on where you live as to how you say it but it all means the same..kinda lol
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Come into my web, said the spider to the fly.
Come rest your wings, and let us talk eye to eye.
For I am a spider, and you are the fly. Now that you are here, let us sit, and say hi.
But I have have no morsel to share, nor anything to eat. But wait, what is that stickiness upon your feet.
Ah now I have you, now I can eat. Now I can enjoy you, or store you as meat.
For I am the spider, and you are the fly. How else could it have gone, between one such as you, and one such as I.
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2012/10/31 10:40:15
Subject: When did the civil war come to be known as the Horus Heresy?
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Sneaky Sniper Drone
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 Themanwiththeplan wrote:Who commited Heresy first?
When did begin?
who truely started it because I remember it began before Horus?
I believe the Word Bearers started it on Calth. That, or it was the Black legion (I forget their pre-heresy name) on Isstvan V.
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2012/10/31 10:52:11
Subject: When did the civil war come to be known as the Horus Heresy?
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Hulking Hunter-class Warmech
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 thefarseerofnorthryde wrote: Themanwiththeplan wrote:Who commited Heresy first?
When did begin?
who truely started it because I remember it began before Horus?
I believe the Word Bearers started it on Calth. That, or it was the Black legion (I forget their pre-heresy name) on Isstvan V.
Half right - The Word Bearers did kinda start the ball rolling. But it was long before Calth. That happened when the Heresy was in full swing. Lorgar was the first Primarch to fall, but it was all in secret until Istvaan, which is where the Heresy truly began. ( BTW, Luna Wolves is the name you're looking for, they later changed to the Sons of Horus - Then to the Black Legion after the Heresy.) 
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2012/10/31 12:00:14
Subject: When did the civil war come to be known as the Horus Heresy?
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Blackclad Wayfarer
From England. Living in Shanghai
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And for clarification check out the HH novel The First Heretic for a more detailed account.
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Looking for games in Shanghai? Send a PM |
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2012/10/31 12:58:03
Subject: When did the civil war come to be known as the Horus Heresy?
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
Croatia
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 Lightcavalier wrote:Ironically enough the Ecclesiarchy/Imperial Cult is also heretical to the Imperial Truth.
totaly - Lorgar won
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ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
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2012/10/31 13:06:43
Subject: When did the civil war come to be known as the Horus Heresy?
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[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche
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Around 1987 when Adeptus Titanus came out.
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2012/10/31 15:44:45
Subject: When did the civil war come to be known as the Horus Heresy?
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Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings
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2012/10/31 16:40:35
Subject: Re:When did the civil war come to be known as the Horus Heresy?
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[MOD]
Solahma
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2012/10/31 19:47:00
Subject: When did the civil war come to be known as the Horus Heresy?
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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No. These comments are very tiresome. Obviously, the is a discussion about the background. Everyone thinks they're being so clever with "because GW wants to sell Spess Mehrenes yuk yuk", "because it's grimdark derp".
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2012/11/03 17:11:47
Subject: Re:When did the civil war come to be known as the Horus Heresy?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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The doctrine of Imperial Truth was in many ways a religious document that stated things like gods didn't exist, The idea was that if enough people believed that no gods existed, then none could (or any that could would have little strength). when Horus denied this it was seen as heresy that the most favored primarch could possibly betray his father and say that his father was wrong.
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2012/11/03 18:33:21
Subject: When did the civil war come to be known as the Horus Heresy?
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Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings
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 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
No. These comments are very tiresome. Obviously, the is a discussion about the background. Everyone thinks they're being so clever with "because GW wants to sell Spess Mehrenes yuk yuk", "because it's grimdark derp".
Well, it is true... 
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2012/11/04 17:57:40
Subject: Re:When did the civil war come to be known as the Horus Heresy?
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Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
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So yes it became known as the Horus Heresy almost immediately.
It seems to be semantics weather the big E was untruthful or the Ecclesiarchy / Imperial Cult is.
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Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
  >Raptors Lead the Way < |
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