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How does Magnus fit the role as Tzeentch's primarch?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






As Tzeentch is the master of cunning, well thought out plots, and general subtle sneakiness, how does Magnus (or the entirety of the rubricae) fit into his role at all?

I was recently looking into the fluff of the Tsons the other day as I love the model scheme for them, and what struck me was, ignoring for the moment the "magic" aspect, just how little they fit into Tzeentch's whole shtick. The rubrics are mindless, and incapable of hope or plans or magic for that matter, so they're kind of fail in the whole scheme of things. The sorcerors leading them, particularly magnus, seem pretty anti-Tzeentch in their actions as well.

In fact, everything that happens to them is a direct result of a complete and utter lack of planning ahead. "Uh oh, heresy, let's use heretical magic to tell the emperor about it, then he'll know we're loyal. Oops, he's sending the space wolves to kill us, shoulda seen that coming."

"Uh oh. Mutations, let's use a spell to stop mutations on the whole chapter without any sort of testing at all. Well, that backfired."

Then Magnus steps in "My head mage's lack of foreplanning led to the dustification of my chapter. I'm gonna smash him like the hulk!" And Tzeentch has to personally smack him on the back of the head and remind him that just maybe the head chapter Mage might come in handy as a pawn later.

Later on, presumably after magnus cools down a bit, he learns of the space wolves trying to make some pure gene seed thing. What's a master of deception and servant of the god of sneakiness and mutation to do? Steal the thing? Psychic bomb the facility? Politely ask daddy to slyly put a mutation in there to further damage the wolves standing in the imperium? Naw. We're all going to charge and I'm personally going to try and punch every space wolf.

And then, after the battle's over, what does the chosen of the god of hope do? Gve up. Mope in his tower.

Why does Tzeentch stick with these guys? Why not find a couple dark eldar and offer to protect them from Slaanesh if they'll use magic and dress in rainbow colors? Their fluff sounds much more Tzeenchy, redirecting ork waaghs, stealing disease cures, intrigue and ambition and mind over might.

That said, I'm still probably gonna paint up some thousand sons. They're still dope models.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in fr
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential





France

There's a saying allong the lines of "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".

That's how Tz got the Sons basically. Magnus is a loyal follower of the Big E. The bad guy is Arihman. But then again, who would not be a bad guy after being stuck for 10.000 years in the Eye of Terror on a stupid motive (they wanted to warn Terra of the Heresy...).

   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






Right but Tzeentch can't do anything with them. He can't change them, they're mopey and without hope, and 90% or more can't even plot. Why not relegate them to "well they're a card I can play if I really need me some AP3 bolters" instead of his main non-daemon weapon?

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Tzeentch is not the god of planning ahead, or at least, not in the way you would think. He is the god of change, chaos, ambition, and hope. Planning ahead is only Tzeentchian when it is used to change the established order, which is exactly what Tzeentch plans continuously for. In fact, Tzeentch loves it when things don't go exactly as planned, which is why many of his plots contradict and undermine each other. As long as things are shifting and chaotic, he's fine. Just look at how he is the Chaos God who gives the most random mutations, screwing around with his followers' dreams and goals instead of just giving them what would serve them best; if he did that, he would no longer be the Changer of Ways, would he?

Tzeentch sorcerers fit his philosophy perfectly. They use magic to change reality itself, something the Chaos God doubtlessly approves of. They seek power at any cost, constantly betraying or making alliances, overturning the established pecking order. And the last, very important part is that sorcery gives Tzeentch a direct way to screw around with his followers, promoting them to greatness one moment and then having them grow five extra heads the next.

The rubric marines are not supposed to represent Tzeentch in form so much as in history. Their origin is perfectly Tzeentchian; Magus makes a deal with the devil, so the Thousand Sons begin suffering horrible side effects. Ahriman decides to save the Thousand Sons from mutation and ends up inadvertently dooming each non-sorcerer marine in the legion. Unexpected consequences are what Tzeentch revels in. As for their current form, they're really just pawns to more Tzeentchian followers, a constant reminder of what happens when you trust things to go as planned.

Tzeentch sticks by the Thousand Sons primarily because the sorcerers' constant backbiting and plotting makes them great tools of Tzeentch's will. You've got guys like Ahriman spending their entire lives searching for forbidden knowledge just so that they can gain more power to make more change. Plus, MAGICKS!

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/10/30 15:12:03


 
   
Made in us
Maddening Mutant Boss of Chaos





NorCal

Kind of have to agree with you. The exception being that Tzeentch is a total bastard of a god so that could explain why he keeps Magnus and his dustbins around.
To be a pure kneebiter.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:Oh wait. His fluff, at this point, has him coming to blows with Lionel, Angryon, Magnus, and The Emprah. One can only assume he went into the Eye of Terror because he still hadn't had a chance to punch enough Primarchs yet.

Albatross wrote:I guess we'll never know. That is, until Frazzled releases his long-awaited solo album 'Touch My Weiner'. Then we'll know.

warboss wrote:I marvel at their ability to shoot the entire foot off with a shotgun instead of pistol shooting individual toes off like most businesses would.

Mr Nobody wrote:Going to war naked always seems like a good idea until someone trips on gravel.

Ghidorah wrote: You need to quit hating and trying to control other haters hating on other people's hobbies that they are trying to control.

ShumaGorath wrote:Posting in a thread where fat nerds who play with toys make fun of fat nerds who wear costumes outdoors.

Marshal2Crusaders wrote:Good thing it wasn't attacked by the EC, or it would be the assault on Magnir's Crack.
 
   
Made in us
Mutating Changebringer





New Hampshire, USA

Also, Magnus no longer leads the Tsons.

He sits on his daemon world examining the endless possiblities of a changing future.

Khorne Daemons 4000+pts
 
   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

Tzeentch is the God of all scheming, it doesn't matter what type of scheming it is, or what its purpose is. So I'd argue that the notion that he's only the God of schemes with a specific intention to change things is false.
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Magnus and then Ahriman had the gall to go toe-to-toe with Tzeentch. The result was that most of the Thousand Sons got turned into walking dustbins. What do mindless automatons have to do with Tzeentch? Just another reminder that even the Astartes are but pawns in the Great Game.

   
 
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