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hi guys,

like the title says im used to the older ruls and have decided to settle on eldar because they just look sooooo cool, period. But until i can raise the funds to buy the parts for my cosair army i will have to make do with the selection of models which await me when i get home at xmas.

currently i have:
1 farseer
Autarach with
6 rangers
6-9 dark reapers 1 exarchs with cannon.
20 hawks 2 exarchs
30 eldar guards
16 dire avengers
2 Heavy wep plats

I was just wondering what way should i go with the wep platforms, in my current footdar army. i mean i got some premade ones on the cheap so i only currently have 2 and i think one is a bright lance and the other migh be a d-cannon.
Also what would be the best way to go about beast-ing my army up, im thinking possibly getting a fire prism and stuff. I want to procure some armour, however lacking knowledge in my new found army even with the codex.
also if you could reconmend some places where i can get some stuff would be helpful. i know ebay but like bit shops and stuff to.

Thanks alot,

Liam

Since corsair's models are so frikn bad i use hawks for mine anyways. This army could very easily be a corsair list as is.

1 Void dreamer Stones, Grixis 95
1 Corsair Prince Shadowfield, Jump pack, Power Sword 165
Give autarch wings, use farseer as void dreamer

6x ranger pathfinders

10 corsairs, jump packs, 2x missiles, 2x melta 175
10 corsairs, jump packs, 2x missiles, 2x melta 175
(hawks are regular corsairs, give 2 hawks fusion guns with a bit of greenstuff or guardian wepon, use 2 reapers with hawk wings)
5 corsairs missile flamer catapults 61
5 corsairs missile flamer catapults 61
6 corsairs missile catapults 64
6 corsairs missile catapults 64
(guardians with some of the flamers that come in the kit with a reaper in each squad with the missile)

Thats a 1000 point list there. Bit light but it could run. The 10 man squads are your AT firepower and can either deepstrike or peekaboo with the jump pack movement. Other squads sit in area terrain and go to ground if shot at. a 60 point squad going to ground means you lose little firepower but they now have a 3+ cover save because area terrain. Corsair prince rides with one of the larger squads while the void dreamer can either swap for 3 powers at mastery level 2 or keep his powers for searing ray vs terminators.

thanks,
I would like to know whats the way to go inrelation to tanks and bikes? because the vypers are like paper planes flying around surely? but there doesn't seem to be anything bulky enough to cause damage and sustain abit at the same time.

Pretty much every single eldar vehicle is outdated and overcosted. War walkers are the only one that actually can perform at all.

IA11, however, has a lot of very good vehicles. Warp hunters are insane at anti-meq and good at anti-hordes and vehicles. Nightwings are kings of the sky, how they should be. They have the weapon loadout to outfight just about anything in the air and the 2+ save with jink is very nice because of agile and shrouding. (5+ at all times, 3+ if you can find a tall building to hide behind too)

Vypers are terrible, Wave Serpents way overcosted, falcons are crap, and fire prisms just dont do enough damage vs tanks to be worth while.

Yup, Eldar are indeed quite squishy. Even our vehicles got hit bad since holofields are nothing more than a point sink anymore. Bikes are the current Eldar-Meta game with their move-shoot-move ability; however, Shining Spears are still over priced for what they accomplish. Vypers are hit and miss. They really hinge on how you approach different situations.

I've had some success with Fire Prisms and Falcons though they are no longer a front-line battle tank, more of a support-fire role anymore. Support weapons (like D-Cannons, VibroCannons, and Shadow Weavers) are quite nasty now and good for softening up or outright killing units. For Tanks, don't bother taking holofields. Glances still hurt so at most they can downgrade 3 penetrates to glances. Spirit stones are only recommended if you desperately need to keep a tank moving. They are cheap though so if they don't get used your not missing much. Go ahead and take the Shuriken Cannon at all times. The extra firepower helps and the rewritten "vehicle movement and shooting" allows you to fire it during most situations. Star Engines are another specialty item. Only take if you're expecting to end up in situations only solvable through extra movement at the cost of shooting.

Lastly, Falcons with Dire Avengers in them no longer capture points and don't count toward the "Line Breaker" VP if it is being used. The Avengers need to disembark for them to count in either situation. Wave serpents are slightly tougher than Falcons or Fire Prisms since the holofield nerf (though only just so) though they are still expensive for a transport trying to be a proper tank.

if tanks, etc. are just a points sink hole then finding a way to ultilize scorps/banshees/harlequins with the support weps. and consider warp spiders to bounce around the board causing a bit of aggro.

whats the best supp wep loadout to do with? i have seen alot of vibro cannons in some lists.

And what of wraithlords? they are expensive to buy IRL, but for 150 pts, with the sword and dual EML seems quite fun.

I'm just trying to gather a few more models so i can have a bit of flexability with my list. The most painful part of this atm, is that i lack sooo many bits as i lost some the other day.

Things to build up in 6th:

Harlequins: now definitively the best of the 3 assault elites. With a shadowseer they generate 2+ cover off any terrain. Throw in a farseer and bam, 2+ rerollable. That is near unkillable in shooting and harlequins have so much they can do in melee that they often come out on top.

Warp spiders: these guys love glancing changes. They pop around the board hunting anything they feel like. S6 is always the magic number

War walkers: 2x cannon or scatter laser= lots of S6 shooting.

Bikes: Guardian jetbikes got slightly better, bringing them into the range of "best eldar troop" However, they still dont do much damage and are expensive both in game and money wise.


Dont buy:
Warlocks (overcosted, too low attacks),
Vehicles (overcosted, low damage output),
SS (slow, cant outflank and assault),
Banshees (only AP3 now and suffer from all the problems as before),
Guardians (now contenders for the worst unit in the game with chaos spawn down),
support platforms (Cool, they are T7, but still do crap damage),
Hawks (spiders just do everything better, convert to corsairs)


Everything else could be used to good effect. Even WS can be used once in a while but i find they cost so much that they really arent worth it.

Almightyliham wrote:
hi guys,

like the title says im used to the older ruls and have decided to settle on eldar because they just look sooooo cool, period. But until i can raise the funds to buy the parts for my cosair army i will have to make do with the selection of models which await me when i get home at xmas.

currently i have:
1 farseer
Autarach with
6 rangers
6-9 dark reapers 1 exarchs with cannon.
20 hawks 2 exarchs
30 eldar guards
16 dire avengers
2 wep plats

I was just wondering what way should i go with the wep platforms, in my current footdar army. i mean i got some premade ones on the cheap so i only currently have 2 and i think one is a bright lance and the other migh be a d-cannon.
Also what would be the best way to go about beast-ing my army up, im thinking possibly getting a fire prism and stuff. I want to procure some armour, however lacking knowledge in my new found army even with the codex.
also if you could reconmend some places where i can get some stuff would be helpful. i know ebay but like bit shops and stuff to.

Thanks alot,

Liam

If you are going to use the hawks then run two skeleton squads of 5. Do not give them any fancy wargear. Only give them an exarch with the skyleap power. This way you can continuously hit your enemy with a str 4 ap 5 large blast anywhere on the map (great for taking out those infantry holding an objective in the back of the board) and the hawks cannot be killed since they return to reserves at the end of the movement phase (if you use skyleap). Also, you can bring down your two weak squads on the end of the fifth turn in the enemy's deployment zone for an easy shot at the linebreaker victory point. Even if the enemy does decide focus fire on them down, then they are still serving the rest of your force by taking the heat off them (and they are probalby doing more important things too!!).

I will say this about Eldar, having gone against them nearly every Sunday for the past year. I HATE them with a passion. Farseers are great at anti-psyker, and have gotten to the point that I won't use a single power of my GK army against them anymore. Also, every game I've lost to them has been on Victory Points because of that aggrivating move range of their bikes. None of my objectives are uncontested at the end of the turn when the eldar player goes 2nd.

Other than the Farseer and bikes, I find them quite crunchy, even their "tanks" go down quick. When Eldar get an updated codex, they will be a fearsome army again.

anyone know a website apart from ebay which is good for getting cheap new/2nd hand models?? as this foirum has no models which i would like?

Eldar cannot be played aggressively especially with vehicles. However you do have some options...

3 Falcons with EML. Eldrad + Farseer Guide and Fortune.

This gives you 9 relatively accurate S8 shots with a range of 48". Fortune gives you 2 rolls on your jink saves.

So AV12 with 2 5++ rolls 6 S8 shots with 75% chance to hit and 3 S8 shots with 50% chance to hit.

The problem of course is then you are talking some very minimal troop choices of 5 x DA. The eldar need to maintain range and shoot the mobile enemy units then go for turn 5 objective steals.

DAaddict wrote:
... then go for turn 5 objective steals.

And then pray to the bastard dice gods who almost always screw Eldar over by extending the game 2 more turns -_-'. I've lost probably 5-6 games because of the game not ending.

Agreed, the eldar always suffer from extended games. The core problem is nothing rock hard in CC. That means you have to shoot everything off of objectives. Now to add to that you can't even run a vehicle up to deny an objective. 3+ to hit on rear armor is a fail for any eldar vehicle...
I am almost to the point of 3 x 3 war walkers and 3 x 3 vypers. 135 strength 6 shots and pray no one can penetrate AV 10. LOL

Hanith wrote:

DAaddict wrote:
... then go for turn 5 objective steals.

And then pray to the bastard dice gods who almost always screw Eldar over by extending the game 2 more turns -_-'. I've lost probably 5-6 games because of the game not ending.

lol, i played a few games in the 6ed as ig against SM and thats happened.

Also i have just brought a fire prism cheap. i know most of you said it was a bad idea, but im sure there is a use for them as it could be ultilize in some battles, 115pts for a basic model.

what should i got out of harlequins and warp spiders first? because im thinking if im going harlequins then i might need some more melee units to possibly back them up? i was thinking a small banshee squad or striking scorps possbly (exarch will have biting blade).

How are fire dragons going in the current rules? i've seen some negative and positive feedback on them. I know they are a close range melta squad but is there anyway to get them into the middle of the fight or something to deal with the annoying terminators or the tanks the other side of the board?

Also has anyone got some tacs for going against SM: my brother runs hq, 2 tac squads, terminators and a devastator squad normally. Any ideas the best way to cope with this set up?

Almightyliham wrote:

Hanith wrote:

DAaddict wrote:
... then go for turn 5 objective steals.

And then pray to the bastard dice gods who almost always screw Eldar over by extending the game 2 more turns -_-'. I've lost probably 5-6 games because of the game not ending.

lol, i played a few games in the 6ed as ig against SM and thats happened.

Also i have just brought a fire prism cheap. i know most of you said it was a bad idea, but im sure there is a use for them as it could be ultilize in some battles, 115pts for a basic model.

what should i got out of harlequins and warp spiders first? because im thinking if im going harlequins then i might need some more melee units to possibly back them up? i was thinking a small banshee squad or striking scorps possbly (exarch will have biting blade).

How are fire dragons going in the current rules? i've seen some negative and positive feedback on them. I know they are a close range melta squad but is there anyway to get them into the middle of the fight or something to deal with the annoying terminators or the tanks the other side of the board?

Also has anyone got some tacs for going against SM: my brother runs hq, 2 tac squads, terminators and a devastator squad normally. Any ideas the best way to cope with this set up?

I have an evil master plan that is harlequin related. Run them forward behind two wraithlords. Make sure that they have a shadowseer. The wraithlords are to act as meat shields while dishing out firepower. The wraithlords will soak up tons of shots as they advance on midfield. The harlequins will be able to be shot, but they cannot be charged and, if shot, they get a 2+ cover save (4+ in open and +2 because cover saves from allied units are 5+). Once close to the enemy army they can lay waste to their enemies.

Almightyliham wrote:
whats the best supp wep loadout to do with? i have seen alot of vibro cannons in some lists.

And what of wraithlords? they are expensive to buy IRL, but for 150 pts, with the sword and dual EML seems quite fun.

Never field a Wraithlord with 2 of the same weapon. It twin links it and you are going to regret it. Either go EML and BL to take out vehicles, EML and StarC to take out marines or EML and Scatter Laser to take out numbers.

Vibro cannons - en masse are good to auto-glance. I personnaly like - if you have a heavy slot - to take a single D-cannon, it provides a 24" bubble of protection that the enemy doesn't like to get into. The problem here is that I can come up with a reason to take a falcon, fire prism, night spinner, wraithlord, war walker or dark reaper before I would take a support platform. It is only good if I have a heavy slot and 50 points left over with the rest of my list.

Vibro cannons appeared everywhere - until the faq stated they couldn't shoot fliers. They're dying down a bit now...

If you want defense - go for d-cannons. Marines in 24"= dead on a 2+
Shadow weavers work well against against hordes and they have a greater range.

I went for d-cannons.
Support weapons are my 6th choice heavy support at the moment. (in 2000pts - less and I don't use them)
I take 2 fire prisms and three wraithlords + 1 more. Either d-cannons or dark reapers. Until my phoenix is finished.
I'm also having a lot of luck with wraithguard squads - 10+spiritseer with conceal on an objective = I still have that objective, even if the game goes to turn 7.
*Stick Karandras and eldrad in that unit and it becomes almost impossible to kill. 2+ at the front and 4+ cover. With re-rolls.

Hawks can be good fun - deep strike next to an opponant and you can fire 3 str 5 shots into rear armour although I can't remember if you can throw haywire grenades (probably not)
If you aren't near enough - skyleap.
They are quite good for area denial - put them at the front (out of los) and watch vehicles go the other way round the battle. Cos once people have realised they have haywire grenades, they either kill them immediately or go somewhere else

If you want vehicles, then forgeworld is definiately the way to go (IMO).
Nightwings look flimsy, but get something like a 2+ evade, the warp hunter is nasty and the phoenix can put out 6str 5ap3, 2 str8 ap2 and 3 str 6 ap 6 against marines - also get +1 bs from strafing run.
If you want vypers, buy hornets. AV11 (so bolter proof) and have a better choice of weapons.

A wraithseer can be evil too, but needs to be in a wraithlist.


*awaiting faq.

TBH, harlequins need no help. a 10 man squad with shadowseer and 10 kisses deals with just about anything in the game with doom/fortune.

If you want to add something to help melee performance, add Yriel over a squad. Wounds on 2+ power weapon, A4 WS7, S9 vs vehicles, can be thrown to pop transports, plus his silly eye of wrath vs MEQ or horde. He also loves challenges since few things in the game can beat him for his point cost.

I run 10 harlequins, Yriel, and eldrad in 1 unit for 650 points in my 1850 list as my only melee. The rest of the 1100 points is shooting. Since the enemy cant shoot the harlequins down and most units cant win in assault, it opens up a lot of options. At worst they have to walk up the field vs guard. At best, they stop a whole BA assault army alone (happened in a tourney. Yriel Eye of Wrath'd 7 marines dead (and 1 harlequin, but so worth it) in a locked combat and made 4 squads run and take fearless wounds).


Support weapon batteries are ok. The new T7 arty rules make them playable, but they still lack the firepower and range to make good choices. War walkers with cannons are still the most cost effective source of damage at 40 points for 6 S6 shots at 24" with scout.

Vypers are bad. IMO they are the worst choice in the codex in 6th. Scrapped one of mine to turn my razorwing into a nightwing and i might do the same to the other if i get another razorwing.

Fire dragons are still gods of the field. The problem is still that they have no good transport options. 250 points for a 6 man squad, exarch, pike, crack shot in a WS with EML(maybe falcon is now better?) is the cheapest you can go for reliable performance.

Warp spiders have pretty much taken the place of FD for tank hunting this edition. Deepstrike and shoot AV 10/11 rear and even a squad of 6 with exarch (152 points) stands a pretty strong chance of killing a vehicle. (3.3 glances/pens on AV11). FD still blow away MEQ squads and MCs far better, but the movement of warp spiders is now pretty big deciding factor.


the Corsair codex from IA11 adds a LOT of tactical flexiblity back into eldar. FD can now deepstrike in, corsairs add a lot of hit and run, vehicles are top notch again, and MSU becomes incredibly hard to deal with. 6th was also very kind to the corsairs with the aegis line, psychic power exchange (void dreamer gets 3 powers for 70 points base!), and flier rules for the nightwing.

PredaKhaine wrote:

I went for d-cannons.
I take 2 fire prisms and three wraithlords + 1 more. Either d-cannons or dark reapers. Until my phoenix is finished.
I'm also having a lot of luck with wraithguard squads - 10+spiritseer with conceal on an objective = I still have that objective, even if the game goes to turn 7.
*Stick Karandras and eldrad in that unit and it becomes almost impossible to kill. 2+ at the front and 4+ cover. With re-rolls.

With the wraith guard squad i see what you mean, but then again buying one 2nd hand is still quite expensive and i cannot afford that kind of set up atm. And thanks for the information regarding the support platforms.

PredaKhaine wrote:

If you want vehicles, then forgeworld is definiately the way to go (IMO).
Nightwings look flimsy, but get something like a 2+ evade, the warp hunter is nasty and the phoenix can put out 6str 5ap3, 2 str8 ap2 and 3 str 6 ap 6 against marines - also get +1 bs from strafing run.
If you want vypers, buy hornets. AV11 (so bolter proof) and have a better choice of weapons.

In relation to these FW vehicles im having trouble finding rules and stuff. I mean the warp hunter has a massive d-cannon, but i cannot find any info on that actual cannon and whether or not it has any special rules relating to how much damage it can do.

To everyone who has contributed to my discussion so far thanks, every little bit helps me get one step closer to building a diverse army.

Thanks again,

Liam

The rules for warp hunter are in IA11 and Imperial Armour Apoc 2nd edtion (not IA:A2, thats a different book.... wonky naming convention). There are LOT of rules that make the warp hunter better than normal D cannons. For example it is a large blast, longer range, has an alternate fire mode, and damages vehicles more often.

Dont bother with wraithguard if you are starting. They are incredibly expensive dollar wise, lack range, slow, are easily countered by melee, expensive point cost, and are surprisingly easy to beat if you know what you are doing.

Can't really go wrong with harlies despite their cost. They pretty much eat anything in melee. The problem is a shadowseer is pretty much mandatory. Their tights and scarves don't provide much protection and the +3 to cover is quite nice. Their ability to IGNORE difficult terrain is amazing; it opens up a lot of avenues of attack. The Death Jester is ok for adding some support fire while you're advancing but that is about it since the chances of actually pinning a unit with his shrieker cannon are minimal. The Troup Master is good thanks to the Ld boost and free kiss / PW. Only problem is they are now finecast so you'll have to deal with that if GW hasn't changed finecast's production method to better avoid bubbles.

zephoid wrote:

Dont bother with wraithguard if you are starting. They are incredibly expensive dollar wise, lack range, slow, are easily countered by melee, expensive point cost, and are surprisingly easy to beat if you know what you are doing.

How would you beat Eldrad, Karandras and a warlock in a squad of 10 wraithguard?

(genuine question )

@Almightyliham - if you need any specific guns, give me a shout/pm. I've spares of most eldar weapons

whats the best way to go about heavy wep plats? some say EML, but if its about as much fire power as possible should i go like 24 inch weps for the extra fire power or pick the longer range ones like eml and BLfor pretty much kill shots if i hit?

I'd go for eml or scatter lasers - 1st being eml for versatility. Krak or plasma missiles is a good choice for both hordes and meq. With a 48" range.

Scatter lasers for the 36" shooting. I wouldn't put a 24" gun on a guardian squad platform as they are in range of most of your opponants guns then. And in a shooting match at 24" -
Squirrels>guardians.

PredaKhaine wrote:
I'd go for eml or scatter lasers - 1st being eml for versatility. Krak or plasma missiles is a good choice for both hordes and meq. With a 48" range.

Scatter lasers for the 36" shooting. I wouldn't put a 24" gun on a guardian squad platform as they are in range of most of your opponants guns then. And in a shooting match at 24" -
Squirrels>guardians.

i was thinking possibility of a star cannon as a possibility, for the 2 str6 ap2 shots, not as diverse as a eml, but it has the potential to cause the same amount of damage at infantry level. mid you i suppose running a squad of dark reapers would be better.

Do you mean support weapons or guardian defence platforms?
I'm confused

Support weapons = shadoweaver/d-cannon/vibro cannon = heavy support
Guardian defence platforms are part of the guardians troop choice. - they take eml/starcannons etc
Starcannon - isn't the worst choice. It's expensive, but If you fight MEQ a lot, then it's worth it.
Dark Reapers are good. I've had more use from mine than support weapons overall. 48" range and crack shot on the exarch (again, I use EML). Just for that one roll when you shoot a flier and roll a 6 with the exarch

"I'm evading"
"there's no point, because I'm ignoring your cover save anyway..."

sorry dude i was talking about the Guardian defence platforms.

Almightyliham wrote:
sorry dude i was talking about the Guardian defence platforms.

Then go for Dark Reapers

Although I freely admit I'm biased against guardians. 12" range and a 5+ does not a good squad make. If anyone has some good guardian advice now would probably be a good time

PredaKhaine wrote:


How would you beat Eldrad, Karandras and a warlock in a squad of 10 wraithguard?

With less than 800 points? lets see:

Swarmlord would have a pretty nice time munching that unit with some guard. Karandras probably wouldnt get to strike with fist, wraithguard wouldnt put out enough damage, and once eldrad is dead (fortune often fails under shadow, inv forced to re-roll) T7-9 Swarmlord is nearly unkillable.

Death Company with a few fists do a wonderful job of oblitering units like that.

Chainfist lone wolves+TW cav would do a great job

Nobs with klaws

guants and a tervigon or 3 with upgs.

TH/SS termies. Hell, even tactial terminators. i can get 20 terminators for the price of this.

at range?

Corsair warp hunter could deepstrike in and flamer, move 12+flamer, or barrage from range.

IA1 armored company with ace loader Russes

800 points of DE warriors in raiders sitting at 23"

3 nightwings or razorwings (once the razorwing gets vector dancer... why doesnt it have it now damit). Even the voidraven with an implosion missile would do quite well. Simply kite you.

Jaws of the World wolf from podded rune priests(hard to get off, but can remove some of the essential characters). Backup missile spam in case that didnt work since priests will shut down fortune pretty easily.

Ect


These are all things that appear in tournies. Often more than 1. Anything with quantity of S5+ in melee, ability to move 12 and fire over 19", or simply has a 2+ armor save. WG fail in melee vs fists. karandras will either be accepting challenges or you are risking one of the other essential pieces in a combat they may not win (eldrad vs S8 or the warlock granting the save the squad depends on for ranged defense). You are spending so much on a unit with a 12" range he never needs to engage it until turn 4-5. If you spread out he has more chance to overwhelm the unit with a bunch of squads. Finally, you are depending on specific individuals to perform essential roles. With precision shots, clever use of vehciles to block LOS, and being able to maneuver, they can often knock the warlock out of the unit at long range. After that its all down hill.

The unit depends on the enemy bringing primarily S3-4, no psychic defense, and being ignorant of how this unit works. Experienced players, especially those who have played eldar, will rip this unit apart.






Please, dont suggest dark reapers.. T3 3+ save is not worth 35pts unless you have god for a weapon. BS4 S5 AP3 heavy 2 is not that impressive. You need to get at least 3 rounds of shooting marines to make the points back for a squad of these. That rarely happens.

Guardians are pretty much worthless at this point. I used a squad of storm guardians with fusion guns in reserve as a surprise unit in 5th that served me well, but defender guardians are absolute crap. I remodeled almost all my guardian models into other things by now.

If the choice is guardians or dark reapers what would you suggest? lol As the op has already got them, can you suggest way's of taking them to gain most use out of them? rather than leave them on the shelf.

Cheers for the wall of information though, that'll be quite useful. Although so far, nothing has ever come close. The most I've lost is 4 wraithguard in a 7 turn game - Must just be lucky with turtling
That and I have a habit of sticking 3 wraithlords, a wraithseer and two fire prism behind it in larger games and going for defense.