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Hi, i have just started a chaos army and am syuck between choosing Iron warriors or death guard. I really like vehicles but am not seeing anything good about them in this edition, whereas PM are looking really good. So which one should I go

Foot lists are viable.

6th Edition favors balanced CSM lists. If you choose to take a couple rhinos to move some Melta-wielding troops up the field, don't be afraid to throw in a few foot-slogging choices in.

If you have the Master of Deception trait, the only way to reliably get within 12" of the enemy (for rapid fires or the best Witchfire powers) is to have a unit mounted in a Rhino for that extra push.

They are not the "auto-include" that they used to be for CSM in 5th edition. I can comfortably say that including rhinos depends highly on personal preference.

A good DG list has 3+ Plague Marines, and you can fill the rest in support.. Considered plague marines with Iron Warriors havocs? Do both legions at once.

Rhinos also carry dirge casters & combi-melta if your army is primarily assaulty, or havoc launchers if your army is primarily shooty.

And searchlights to give you the edge on nightfight missions or ridiculous imotek lists.

+1 vote Iron Warriors

All good advice so far.
Plasma squads are just fine walking whereas melta or flamer squads could use a ride.
Dirge caster or havok launcher are the best upgrades for me.

I like the 10-man squad with either 2 plasma guns or 2 melta guns in the unit. Keep 'em with just bolters.

Put 'em in a rhino, the two special weapons can shoot out the hatch.

-- Scoring's a bit of a conundrum with Chaos. If you're not playing a Typhus Zombie list, it's worth while looking at Allies to help add two more scoring options. Orks, Necrons, Daemons, and IG all have some benefits here.

loreweaver wrote:
I like the 10-man squad with either 2 plasma guns or 2 melta guns in the unit. Keep 'em with just bolters.

Put 'em in a rhino, the two special weapons can shoot out the hatch.

-- Scoring's a bit of a conundrum with Chaos. If you're not playing a Typhus Zombie list, it's worth while looking at Allies to help add two more scoring options. Orks, Necrons, Daemons, and IG all have some benefits here.

I'm planning a non mech CSM with IG allies list. Planning on either no transports or just 1-2. Havent used it in its entirety yet but things seem to work alright these days.

CSM do great work when in rapid fire range, and rhinos help with that quite a bit. It also helps you concentrate your fire more easily and if you're working hard, can help by blocking opposing concaves and ruining your opponent's ability to concentrate.

You'll also find that it helps you avoid some of the LD check issues that happen to csm when big chunks are blasted into your squads as they find their position. The more plasma and autocannons and the like being fed into a rhino that's already moved 12 the happier I tend to be.

I've also been really reticent about lacking mobility with my MEQ lists. Or at least the ability to deploy across the board. Clearing out objectives can be something CSM does very well, but you have to invest in it, and I'd much rather have some element that can be relied upon to score forward or make it back and forth without sacrificing too much shooting.

Rhinos are a balanced option in my eye. You don't take the All MSU force of old. You fill the suckers. It does seem like you are a little gimped given how awful it feels trying to put a close combat IC in a rhino with some CSM but you get over it. You have other options for HQs. MSU isn't even so bad in this edition if you feel like you can find room for some more troublesome hearty scoring units to add some balance.

I find derge casters to be worth their weight in gold. I like to play assaulty though. But denying overwatching is really nice.

With all the foot blobs my friends are telling me that havoc launchers are heaven. Maybe I'm still stuck in 5th edition but I still love my combi meltas.

Dirge Casters are an auto-take IMHO. For only 5pts to deny overwatch is amazing. Havoc Launchers are also great, but they are 12pts, so I don't always take them. If you are going with a few PM Squads in Rhinos roaming around the board then you probably want to take them, but if you just want it to get a squad there then die, don't waste the points. Rhino's are definitely optional, but if you go footslogging, use big squads.

I just find that since I'm not charging out of my rhinos anymore, I tend to do more rapid firing. I haven't run into too much over watch unless its on a unit farther away doing harassment.

That being said I haven't used huge blobs or infiltrating zerkers yet so maybe I'm missing out.

Assault armies can't, I think, do rhino rush anymore. The idea is not to drive up and assault out of a rhino, which both limits the size of your assault units to pretty small and can't get you into assault before turn 3 at the earliest.

The idea is that if you have an assault army:
-You have some fast assault units (bikes, spawn, daemon allies) to tie things up and run interference in turn 1-2
-That first wave is followed up by terminators, or some assaulting infantry in big units of 12+ or a big gang of cultists escorting an uber-character who are meant to join the assault in turn 2 or 3.

So if you have an assault army, you drive the *empty* rhinos up there full speed to (1) block firing lanes from big nasty weapons to your spawn/bikes and (2) get the dirge casters within 6" for turn 1-2 assaults (turn 1 if your opponent moves toward you and you're going second.)

The rhinos don't actually carry anybody. They're just there to block movement and LoS, provide dirge casters, and optionally also to open enemy vehicles at short range with combi-meltas.

I think the only situation really where rhinos benefit from carrying somebody is with chosen or noise marines, whose special weapons are effective enough to make getting a smaller unit there faster worthwhile.

In a shooting army, the theory says you take 4-5 rhinos with missile launchers and hang around the back and table edges lobbing shots at the enemy. An extra 24+ small blasts per game will take a toll on anybody, even if they're only Str5.

 Flavius Infernus wrote:
Assault armies can't, I think, do rhino rush anymore. The idea is not to drive up and assault out of a rhino, which both limits the size of your assault units to pretty small and can't get you into assault before turn 3 at the earliest.

The idea is that if you have an assault army:
-You have some fast assault units (bikes, spawn, daemon allies) to tie things up and run interference in turn 1-2
-That first wave is followed up by terminators, or some assaulting infantry in big units of 12+ or a big gang of cultists escorting an uber-character who are meant to join the assault in turn 2 or 3.

So if you have an assault army, you drive the *empty* rhinos up there full speed to (1) block firing lanes from big nasty weapons to your spawn/bikes and (2) get the dirge casters within 6" for turn 1-2 assaults (turn 1 if your opponent moves toward you and you're going second.)

The rhinos don't actually carry anybody. They're just there to block movement and LoS, provide dirge casters, and optionally also to open enemy vehicles at short range with combi-meltas.

I think the only situation really where rhinos benefit from carrying somebody is with chosen or noise marines, whose special weapons are effective enough to make getting a smaller unit there faster worthwhile.

In a shooting army, the theory says you take 4-5 rhinos with missile launchers and hang around the back and table edges lobbing shots at the enemy. An extra 24+ small blasts per game will take a toll on anybody, even if they're only Str5.

I like where you are going with this the rhinos dont carry anybody but why not put someone in their. You can have min squaded CSM or hell even 10 man cultists in there. Bring them up and in a pinch, when you just need a few extra bodies they can jump out, to flame something or block an assault route or towards the end of the game they are already in there to race towards objectives.

we all knew about DAVA, well it might be worth it to throw in a 50 point cultist unit or a 75 point CSM unit in 1-2 of your 5 empty rhinos.

In 5th edition I would have said definitely yes on the MSU troop units.

My experience of 6th edition so far is that minsize troop units don't pack enough punch to make it worthwhile and aren't survivable enough to accomplish anything game-changing (because people will just focus fire on them and wipe them out if they're in a position to change the game).

I think you really need 8-10 cult marines or fairly tooled CSM to accomplish anything worth the points.

I am not persuaded yet of anything that cultists can do other than act as bullet-catchers for a named character or a Khorne lord on a jugger. They don't have the survivability or leadership to hold a position, they don't have the firepower to hurt anything, and in assault they are just chaff.

 Flavius Infernus wrote:


I am not persuaded yet of anything that cultists can do other than act as bullet-catchers for a named character or a Khorne lord on a jugger. They don't have the survivability or leadership to hold a position, they don't have the firepower to hurt anything, and in assault they are just chaff.

i hear you but think about this. If you have that 50 point squad towards the end of the game your opponent has to expend this now limited shooting/ resources to hunt down that cultists squad that keeps hopping from one glancewrecked rhino. 10 cultists require something to take down and whatever that something is it wont be coming at your other scoring units late game.

It is just an idea but I think if you are going to have 5 empty rhinos you should have something in there ready to go if need be.