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Bao Troops

MOV4-4, CC15, BS12, PH11, WIP14, ARM1, BTS-6, W1

MSV L2, Courage

X-Visor, Combi rifle/Light Shotgun 29pts
X-Visor, Boarding Shotgun/Contender 29pts
Multi-Sniper Rifle SWC1.5, 36pts.

Can only link if with a Pheasant Rank Agent. Minimum 41pts.


Well the Bao to me are disappointing. Mainly because of their high points. I wanted something in the 20-30 range not 30-40. They can only link if with another expensive guy too. I don't understand why the MSR doesn't get an X-visor too. the MSV L2 is pretty nice though. Still for the high points I expected ARM2 as well.

I'd probably use the Sniper because he's one of the cheapest snipers for an ISS list next to Celestial Guard. In a General Yu Jing list he's also pretty good but for 3pts. more you can have a Guilang with Camo, Infiltration and the MSV L1. But you can only have 1 of him, only BS 11, and I'd almost rather a Guilang as a mine layer or FO.

I'm actually pretty pleased with these. So much so that i'm planning to proxy a couple of celests in my next game.

I play vanilla though so I don't have much thoughts on the link conditions.

I dont think they're too expensive and i'm looking forward to going against my mates all camo Ariadna force with my 'close to' all visor force!

Looking forward to seeing the models!

People just don't give the Boarding Shotgun enough credit. Being able to get a bit more range out of it can really catch people off guard. Especially loaded with some AP rounds. The ARM 1 is a little weak, and BTS-6? Why? I'm guessing to survive against Viral Ammo? Since we're going to be seeing a lot more of that now that the Tohaa are in town.

I don't feel special anymore. *sniffs* Its okay Lasiq Sniper, I still love you.

Lets not forget the Bao look awesome. And... AND!... Its really fun to say. Bao.

Bao!

Yes it is fun to say!

I think it helps to compare a bit

DJANBAZAN Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW (28)
MOV:4-2 CC:14 BS:12 PH:11 WIP:14 ARM:2 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, Cube
Multiterrain, Regeneration, Multispectral Visor L2


Bao Combi-Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife (29)
MOV:4-4 CC:15 BS:12 PH:11 WIP:14 ARM:1 BTS:-6 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, Cube
X-Visor, Multispectral Visor L2, Courage

I see the Djanbazan being closest to the Bao. For the standard guy I think he comes out on top. One point more and he's got a better weapon with an X-Visor, faster, and great BTS.
______________________________

DJANBAZAN Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW (33 | 1)
MOV:4-2 CC:14 BS:12 PH:11 WIP:14 ARM:2 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, Cube
Multiterrain, Regeneration, Multispectral Visor L2

Bao Multi SniperRifle / Pistol, Knife (36 | 1.5)
MOV:4-4 CC:15 BS:12 PH:11 WIP:14 ARM:1 BTS:-6 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, Cube
Multispectral Visor L2, Courage

Now he doesn't have the X-Visor but he has a better sniper rifle.

I just wish I didn't have to take an expensive Crane agent to make a fire team.

This would be pretty cool though


IMPERIAL AGENT MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Monofilament CCW (48 | 1.5)
MOV:4-4 CC:17 BS:12 PH:11 WIP:14 ARM:2 BTS:-3 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, Cube
Martial Arts L3, X Visor

Bao Multi SniperRifle / Pistol, Knife (36 | 1.5)
MOV:4-4 CC:15 BS:12 PH:11 WIP:14 ARM:1 BTS:-6 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, Cube
Multispectral Visor L2, Courage

Bao Multi SniperRifle / Pistol, Knife (36 | 1.5)
MOV:4-4 CC:15 BS:12 PH:11 WIP:14 ARM:1 BTS:-6 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, Cube
Multispectral Visor L2, Courage

Well you can still use a Pheasant rather than a Crane. Cheaper that way.

The Djanbazan is a good point of comparison. The Bao is faster, has a BTS, and has the XVisor as well. The point where the Djanbazan shines though isn't as obvious. They can form a really nasty link team without the need for the Agent. And they all have Regeneration. Not the greatest ability ever but its awesome when it works. Even better, having a Doctor with regeneration AND Willpower 14 is pretty sweet. Oh, and he can shoot Camo models.

Bao seem like really cool Support guys who work well together. Djanbazan are meant to get in there and play dirty.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also... Bao!

So comparison wise they look pretty good too! . . . Awesome . . . or . . . Baosome! . . . Maybe not!

I don't think much of them because I only run JSA - and the ONLY non-"japanese" units I have are the remotes.

I have no pheasant agents, I have no other Imperial troops. Just the separatists.

Has there been any concept art released for how these guys will look yet?

There's concept art showing them somewhere in the News and Rumors section... someone will post it faster than I can get to it I'm sure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/2370/356404.page

Scroll DOOOOOWN...

They're there... and awesome.

Though not as awesome as my Sekhban. They look wicked.

I like 'em as both an ISS unit and a standard one. Their basic versions without SWC have some great active attack roles. One interesting point of comparison with the Djan is that the Bao has access to really cheap, ubiquitous smoke cover. Most Haqq smoke tossers are either expensive or fill the role of forward/rapid attack units. But Yu Jing has some of the cheapest smoke in the game (or in the case of the ISS some of the best in the form of a CG link). So it is like getting a less hardy Djan that can take easier advantage of smoke+MSV2. The basic combi-version has nice synergy with the X-Visor on there and while it isn't the outright powerhouse of a Hsien or Rui Shi it should still be able to shred light camo units with ease. The BS+Contender version seems like it would be at its best either paired with a Monk or a CG team in a light assault role or as a member of a link team.

The sniper one is clearly a bit of a beast though. While not able to deliver a barrage like the Hsien, a doubletap of DA ammo can cause just as much damage.

The only thing one can really say about it is that it is more reliant on smoke than a Hsien. But consider that a Bao Sniper+Monk still comes out to over 20 points less and a savings of 0.5SWC compared to the HMG variety, I see this as not much of an issue. And you can always pop one of the basic versions on as backup and not be too bad off. And even then BS12 plus an X-Visor or MSR is a lot of clout in a slugfest. So even without smoke they have some good firefight abilities. Sure they still wont survive a crit, but having played Nomads for a while I have come to terms with that being a downside of things that aren't HI. But in the active turn it is rare that you will be without some kind of smoke cover in Yu Jing.

The Djan has the advantage in a better Link Team and access to an HMG. The Bao gets the advantage of a better sniper options and much better smoke access in its lists.

But even then, the Bao link team can be pretty nasty if played right. Now, it precludes the presence of a CG link but an MSR in a link will be BS15, B3 DA ammo. I'd bring a couple of CG smokers and Kuang Shi along for the ride and basically use the link to cover a nice kill zone somewhere. The BS+Contender version would be preferred in this config, since Contenders love links. I'd probably go with a Pheasant hacker in this (since you wont be taking a CG link may as well spend the ~12 points elsewhere, and the Hacker Pheasant is actually a fairly efficient use of the Pheasant since it dumps a lot of extra stuff for just plain hacking ability). Stick him in cover and bring along some remotes that can be used as forward repeaters (and maybe even an EVO). This should help against heavier elements in the enemy list. A hacker loadout should let the Pheasant stay out of the limelight.

That said, the tri-sniper link sounds kind of fun if a bit over specialized. For extra lulz bring Sun Tze Mk2 along! :p

But my current verdict is that the Bao is a nice all around option that allows us to fill a gap that we previously had. Now we can pack MSV2's in to a list for less than 60 points and without packing along a hacker. For people with a lot of camo in their meta this can free up a lot of points in a list. Now I can pack along a Daofei and not feel like I am giving up a Hsien to do it. Not an utter game change or some kind of uber unit, but certainly something we lacked before.

Edit - And I just want to add that I love that the MSR doesn't come saddled with an X-Visor. This is because it tends to be a waste. You will rarely be at a the -3 range (it happens but really, really rarely) and I don't think I have ever fired a sniper at -6. In most case the sniper rifle will be packing a nice +3 bonus. In most cases a weapon like a sniper rifle or HMG are a waste alongside the X-Visor. So while it seems kind of counter-intuitive you actually want X-Visors on shorter ranged guns (ideally rifle or spitfire ranges) because you can play with engagement differences on those ones more. Engaging at 24"+ is pretty common and being able to open a -3 differential between you and your target using simple range control is a nice perk. So in my eyes the Bao has the X-Visors attached to the correct profiles. It just seems weird because the sniper-equipped guys should want X-Visors. But because they only take effect at longer ranges it ends up being counter-intuitive.

But since the Bao has it on rifle and shotgun ranged weaponry they end up with weapons that will tend to beat out most rifles outside of optimal range sweet spots. Even the boarding shotgun is a better shooting option outside of 16" with an X-Visor than a basic rifle (it only gets worse again because it has no -6 range). But the basic combi-rifle with an X-Visor is great at opening up on lighter elements from a distance and imposing some hefty penalties on them for doing it.

The more I look at them the more I like them. My buddy uses a lot of Djanbazan and they have been my bane with my Shasvastii. Not that I can get much payback since he doesn't use that much camo or smoke himself.

Yeah, the same thing happened to me with the Raiden. When I first saw them I just couldn't see what was so great about them. But then I looked at the context surrounding them, the cost and some of the loadouts and I think they're actually pretty nice in certain lists where you need extra firepower but don't want to invest a whole lot.

I just think we all got pulled into the "ZOMG new-unit!" hype (I know I certainly did), and when the book dropped and most human factions got a couple of new profiles, we ended up scrutinizing them harder than they needed to be. Nothing Yu Jing gained (outside of being able to do a JSA Speed Freaks list) was a huge game changer. But almost no one (outside of Aleph and the Tohaa) did. But looking at what we did get they do their jobs well and don't cost an arm and a leg. At this point the sectorials should be pretty static, so I'm not expecting new, more playstyle changing stuff until Acheron Falls, umm, drops.

I think the Bao also got hit with a lot of flak early because everyone was expecting a Muyib/Wildcat/Yaogat style link team and what we got was a less-linkable, lighter Djanbazan with different weapon loads. It didn't help that a lot of people still have a hate-on for the Agents and that the link requires one. For those in the Muyib/WC/Yaogat-wanting group this ended up inextricably linking the Bao with the Agents even though the two units are quite different (the Bao is a narrow specialist unit that costs little more than it needs to in the role it has). Certain boards were aflame with declaring the poor Bao as Agent 2.0 (or to use a Windows reference Agent ME) rather than objectively looking at its strengths and weaknesses.

Now that the hype has died down we can really start to actually take stock of things. I have finally come around to liking the Raiden and I see how valuable it is in JSA as well as seeing a use for it in standard lists (more camo markers starting on the table is never bad). So now it is my hope that people see the good in the Bao and see the unique opportunities it brings to the ISS and standard lists. This sucker wont change the game like a Hac Tao or a Su-Jian, but by providing a cheap, shooting specialized MSV2 it frees up points that may have gone to a Hsien or Hacker+Rui Shi so that we can take more expensive toys without compromising camo-defense.

Well now I think it's time to make a thread about the Raiden. Anyone else want to start that?

Thank you Ronin, that was a very intelligent and thoughtful post. You bring up some good points there.

I always try to look at the good in models.

Also... we should be giving E/Marats a closer look again. They just became a nasty cheap way to really screw with people.

X Visor and Multispectral visor Lvl 2 with BS12 pretty much sells them to me! Especially with the BTS-6 that will come in handy vs Viral.

I'm not going to like playing against these.........

I probably won't do them as a link team but I probably will still fit some in somewhere.