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Hey just curious if anyone has tried these out, and what kind of luck you've had with them.

The models look like they're either sculpted out of Silly Putty or left out in the sun too long lol
BUT! They might have a place in a list.

I'm aware of the other eight or so Heavy Support choices, so let's not say that there are better choices, but more so, keep this specifically about the Mutilators and how they function with other units on the table.


Anyone?
Thanks!
T-

1st, muti's are elite.

2nd, I've found them to make decent counter assault units or a tarpit. If the situation is just right, you can go on a tank busting montage with them. otherwise... meh.

the only thing ive found usefull for them is as body bags for typhus in his land raider.

nightsorrow wrote:
the only thing ive found usefull for them is as body bags for typhus in his land raider.

Wouldn't Terminators be more cost effective?

Nah you can't fit 6 terminators + lord in any csm raider. So for ablative wounds the muties aren't that bad. But 8 plague marines would be better.

Depends on if you want bodyguards that can kill stuff or ones that won't die.

Plague Marines won't die, although they arn't super killy in melee.

Mutilators are moderatly durable while also being very killy.

Plague marines become scoring and bring some firepower. With the lord they are killy enough. With 2x melta they can add some pain and be sure to pop a transport so you can get to the squishy bits inside.

Kevlar wrote:
Nah you can't fit 6 terminators + lord in any csm raider. So for ablative wounds the muties aren't that bad. But 8 plague marines would be better.

But I wouldnt take the mutilators without the raider. And I would never take up a HS slot with a raider.

In a vaccum I'd go with mutilators over terminators. When they get to the fight muties can always get the extra attack and a variety of weapons. Termies are stuck with LCs if they want the extra attack.

You can always fit in a 3 man termicide unit and bring the raider empty and load it up turn 1.

That is how I always ran berzerkers in a raider.

There is a huge thread a few pages down discussing them at length.

Basic conclusion

they are absoluely horrid at just about anything with the exception of disruption

some people seem to think taking a unit of one and DSing it in the enemy backfield will disrupt the enemy battle line and plan by either bating a few lascannon shots or require a tarpit assault unit to endage.



In any event it was easily proven that they are just about the worst combat troops ever.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Everything you every wanted to know about mutilators

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/482693.page

 Exergy wrote:

some people seem to think taking a unit of one and DSing it in the enemy backfield will disrupt the enemy battle line and plan by either bating a few lascannon shots or require a tarpit assault unit to endage.

If you aren't using your elite slots I can see that working. Deepstrike three of these guys as separate units near some enemy vehicles and he will be cursing.

Kevlar wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

some people seem to think taking a unit of one and DSing it in the enemy backfield will disrupt the enemy battle line and plan by either bating a few lascannon shots or require a tarpit assault unit to endage.

If you aren't using your elite slots I can see that working. Deepstrike three of these guys as separate units near some enemy vehicles and he will be cursing.

the thing is that an oblitorator does such a better job of this, so they might have a place, in 1999 point games, but in lower point games there will always be a better choice, and in a larger point game there will always be something better.

termicide is still alive, it will take out one thing when it comes down and then another the next turn where as a mutilator cannot do jack its first turn and then hopefully will destroy something on its second.

 Exergy wrote:

termicide is still alive, it will take out one thing when it comes down and then another the next turn where as a mutilator cannot do jack its first turn and then hopefully will destroy something on its second.

Its tough to get in 6" melta range without icons, and terminators have a bigger footprint, which means greater chance of mishap. And if I had a dollar for every time my single shot weapons missed I'd be a gazillionaire.

I'd give them the MON too, which means 130 points for terminators, and 61 points for the mutliator. So you can squeeze those mutilators into your list pretty easily.

That's kind of what I was thinking.

I pointed out a squad of x5 Terminators with one of each melee weapon upgrade, Marks of Tzeentch and VotLW versus a squad of x3 Mutilators with Marks of Tzeentch and VotLW and there's only a 14point difference (or so).
Terminators can shoot, charge and do well in melee, Mutilators can't shoot but would get an extra attack for the weapon pairs they wield. So that'd be 15 Terminator attacks against 12 Mutilator.
Mutilators also offer one extra Wound (versus the Terminators)

It does seem like there are better options, just figured there had to be a place for them in a list even under 2000pt.

Thanks for all the replies! Post if you have anything else to add!
T-

The thing is, they could be useful as suggested above (DS'ing singles into the enemy line).

But, have you tried finding 165 ponts spare in your list to do that?
There's many better options. It's funny how these guys sold out in their hundreds when the models first came out with people buying them blindly (no pun intended) only to realise how bad they are.

Maybe you could use them in units of 1 and 1 teams. Like, drop them both down to threaten at least two different units with either Mutilator, or you could use a Mutilator/Terminator squad instead if you want, to essentially present at "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation because chances are ones going to get shot at, if not both...

Ultimately somethings getting hit.

Putting your opponent in tough spot can make them make bad choices haha

T-

 L0rdF1end wrote:
The thing is, they could be useful as suggested above (DS'ing singles into the enemy line).

But, have you tried finding 165 ponts spare in your list to do that?
There's many better options. It's funny how these guys sold out in their hundreds when the models first came out with people buying them blindly (no pun intended) only to realise how bad they are.

Hey I agree, I'm not saying they are great, or even close to worth 165 pts. I doubt I'd ever buy the models, but as a single 1 man throw away unit if you had the spare points and the spare slot I can see it accomplishing something. Its a decent bullet sponge so your opponent might waste some important attention on it, its cheap enough to absorb an overwatch shot that could save a real unit some wounds, and no tank in the game is going to be able to ignore a dude running around with dual chainfists.

I want to like them, and I think I even might.

If I was playing 2500, with no allies and a single force org, I think I'd take them.

Elites are the weak spot of the Chaos Codex imo. I don't think anything is terrible, but nothing is great either. Mutilators fit right in.

I'd rather have Tzeentch terminators than Mutilators.

 Red Viper wrote:
I want to like them, and I think I even might.

If I was playing 2500, with no allies and a single force org, I think I'd take them.

Elites are the weak spot of the Chaos Codex imo. I don't think anything is terrible, but nothing is great either. Mutilators fit right in.

Terminators(and their landraider)
Chosen
Cult Troops that are not troops
all better than mutilators
the only thing worse is possessed.

 Exergy wrote:

Terminators(and their landraider)
Chosen
Cult Troops that are not troops
all better than mutilators
the only thing worse is possessed.

All better at what? The only one that even compares to deepstriking tank hunter is terminators. None of the others can. And MSU cost for a mutilator vs terminator isn't even close. Now I know mutilators aren't Marbo good, but they can be disruptive on the cheap.

Kevlar wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

Terminators(and their landraider)
Chosen
Cult Troops that are not troops
all better than mutilators
the only thing worse is possessed.

All better at what? The only one that even compares to deepstriking tank hunter is terminators. None of the others can. And MSU cost for a mutilator vs terminator isn't even close. Now I know mutilators aren't Marbo good, but they can be disruptive on the cheap.

the post I was replying to was commenting on how mutilators fit right in with the sucky elite section in the chaos dex. Elites are bad, but most are better than mutilators by a good margin.

They're not a 'win' button, but they are useful in the right list.

I'm running 3x1 of them with mark of slaanesh alongside:

seekers (allies) w/ mounted herald and an icon
a couple of small squads of daemonettes (allies) deepstriking
an aegis with a comm link (protecting a bunch of supporting fire)
2x2 obliterators deep striking to melt things
bike lord and melta buddies
melta raptors flying up the board
helldrake

Too many FAST threats all at once. Something is going to get shot - might as well be mutilators right? The opponent can't shoot everything all at once. And really, if you had two squads of oblits and two squads of rending cheerleaders, along with a steroidal chaos lord (w/ FNP friends) and a hellturkey all show up in your face turn 1 - do you even notice the mutilators? Not until they wreck something valuable, and then it's too late...

Terminators are fine, but they're not at the same price point, not effective against hard targets without upgrades, and can't precision DS without dimensional key shenanigans. Dreads aren't aggressive enough for my taste, and every other elite choice is too expensive for what it does IMO.

Why would you deepstrike something that can't assault that turn? You're putting a lot of points on the table to draw fire that has no chance of retaliating or making any points back for an entire turn. Then they can just drive away. Oblits or terminators are your suicide units. You atleast get the chance to shoot at some rear armor.

Honestly, Mutilators are terrible, too pricy for their intended purpose. To make them effective you've got to pay for a Land Raider and since you're buying that you might as well get a pricy IC.

You can get something more effective at CC for the same points (Chosen come to mind). If I saw them on the board I would just ignore them or tarpit them. Maybe I just don't like CC. A 1/2 chance of hitting most of the time, then a 1/2 chance of wounding in most combats. Just leaves a bad taste in my mouth when a Combat drags on all game with nothing really cool happening.

It's not a lot of points though - that's the point! If they're shooting at a 61 point mutilator they're not shooting at something else.

Even against an uber-shooty list, there are only so many opposing units pulling the trigger. If they waste 50 bolter shots on 2+ armor/cover, then you have more troops alive next turn. If they waste 3-5 lascannon shots then you have one more transport in position to get dug in.

No - they're not better than oblits, but you can only have so many oblits.

Chosen are not the same points - not even close. Chosen are freakin' expensive - 3x the pts to make them useful and mobile.

If you deepstrike 1-3 mutilator(s) and nothing else it's not a threat - If you deepstrike three squads of one or two mutilators, and a bunch of other crap turn 2, without scatter, then it's decision-time for your opponent. They can't just walk away from combat and shoot at full capacity - most of their good guns are heavy or mounted on vehicles that can't shoot at full capacity after moving.

They have a place in an army that seeks to put pressure on the enemy line turn 2, and has multiple capable units to support them in combat, and with suppressing fire. Against gun lines they present another target - either prompting wasted shots via overkill, or being ignored and proceeding to roll a flank - (dual chainfists are not weak). And they have great synergy with daemon allies.


To Exergy's point - it's apples to oranges. 500 points worth of termies in a LR, or 200 pts worth of cult elites/chosen in a rhino don't compare to a 55-61 pt mutilator. Chosen/Cult Elites in their metal boxes get stranded midfield when autocannons wreck their rhino. 500 pts of termies is 1/3 your army for 6 models...

If you want rhino saturation the chosen are better, if you want 1-3 LR's then the termies are better.

If you want deep striking pressure to back up calvary/bikes/outflanking/deep strikers - mutilators fit much better.

The list and the tactics determine the value of the unit.

Holy Necro thread batman!

I'm going to try using a pair of solo mutilators in some games tomorrow. My list is very fast assault, with bikes, spawn juggerlord, flesh hounds, bloodthirster, and some foot bloodletters and berzerkers for second wave.

The idea behind the mutilators, is that they are so dirt cheap, and everything it hitting enemy lines on turn 2/3, they will be a good addition for MSU saturation to shut down enemy rear guns for a few turns until the more killy elements can chew through to them

I'm also going to try using Huron to infiltrate one or both of them (along with his berzerker bodyguard). The idea being that, because their footprint is so tiny, they can easily infiltrate 12" away out of sight. If I go second, they have a pretty good chance of getting a turn 1 assault (or, if placed near enemy heavy guns, forcing them to move out of assault range and disrupt their fire), or hitting the lines by turn 2 along with the faster assault elements.

I'm not expecting miracles, but for 61points, they look like they should do a decent job of disrupting much more valuable targets. If they are anything as survivable as my solo obliterators in combat, they should be just fine.