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Would anyone agree with me that the biggest flaw with the new CSM codex is that so many factors in the codex depend on luck? Between rolling for chaos boons, warlord traits, reserves, daemonic possession, crazed, and psychic powers, so many strategies depend on you getting good rolls for these, and just one bad roll on any of these (especially reserves if the other side has fliers and yours don't come in) can ruin your entire game plan.

Ork players think you have a pretty stable codex.

Every army deals with reserves and warlord traits.

Chaos boons have an almost negligible possibility of a negative result for what amounts to a chance at a free gimme power.

That leaves 2 things. Pretty average for any codex.

Welcome to any dice-based game!

Honestly, your examples, only the boon table and hellbrute are random and different from what every other army has for randomness, which I don't think is really over the top at all. The hellbrute is barely random, and I just look at it as an upside to a standard dreadnought. And the boon table should be treated similiarly. Noone would say chaos HQs/units that can take boons are bad if they didn't have a boon table, so why ever make a strategy base around a boon table? Make a strategy, and if the boon comes in your favor, it just amkes the game easy for you.

I have a fairly standard strategy for myself, I plan on the dice rolls ending up on the bad side of every situation for myself, and thus when things are random and actually go good, I crushmy opponents, and if they are bad, I still manage a win, because I planned for it.

Saying chaos's weakness is it's randomness in a game where the key mechanic is a D6, is a flawed idea from the start. I think the weakness of chaos is that it's an extremely balanced book, internally. But in the presence of armies like DoC, Gk, and Crons. It's not super powerful, but still competitive, and I for one hope that GW can continue to produce codexs like Chaos Space Marines.

The biggest problem with the new CSM is all the players trying to play them like Marines. While playing CSM you cant lean on ATSKNF. You have to have a xenos mindset despite all the familiar weapons and stats. You have to expect that your troops may run off the board and that they can be swept. If running up the middle of the board in clear LOS of your opponents shootiest units sounds like sound strategy to you go back to playing GK or Deathwing. This new Codex punishes tactical errors, but you get a lot more cushion than you would with Dark Eldar.

The other problem I see is all the fluffy or gimmicky builds players are trying. I can tell you right now that mixing marks is going to be neccesary in competitive lists, but so many people are loathe to do so. Cult armies arent that good. Typhus is not going to win you games on his own.

Now I know the Codex is new and a lot of people havent purchaced the new models but much of the new stuff is good enough to have three of. I see many people taking poor choices because of model limitations and the comp players havent really tested the new 'dex to explore beyond what looks good on paper. CSM has cheap troops that are not terrible and can be taken in large numbers. CSM is not a MSU army, only certain units can pull it off (plagues and bikes). Nothing should go in a transport, unless you know what you're doing. So you should be maxing out on bodies.

No one has really tried to spam anything but zombies. Hell most lists right now are still trying to take one of everything when they should be doubling or tripling up. If you arent taking bikes or spawn you need to have at least 2x Drakes fliers are that good. If you dont like oblits or fiends you should have 3x Havocs and you may want to consider the extra bodies with them. The FA and HS slots need to be filled as they have the units that do things. You can straight up ignore elites unless you really like termies, that is a FOC wasteland.

I'll boil this down. Fill your HS and FA slots. Take max sized troops. If you run short of points dont cut your troops, downgrade them. Remove options or take cheaper troops, you need bodies. Also you are not invunerable, control LOS. They cant shoot what they cant see, you only need to see what you're shooting at. The movement phase is your best defense. You also dont have to run at the enemy most likely they will come to you, especially if they cant see you. Force their big guns to move up.

Of course... because the first thing that I relate to the forces of Chaos would be stability and reliability...

Random, eh?

Ork players chuckle at the very suggestion. Have you even seen the Ork Weirdboy rules? Or the Ork Shokk Attack Gun rules? Or the Ramshackle rule?

The only randomness specific to the Chaos 'dex would be the boon table, daemonic possession, and crazed - the former having only one really bad result, the rest being only circumstantially bad, the latter two only having possibly circumstantial negative aspects.

I honestly don't see it as a flaw, and as SoloFalcon pointed out, the them of the topical faction isn't exactly order and stability. It's a really good codex, though the random stuff may make a player not used to any random aspects balk.

Now I know the Codex is new and a lot of people havent purchaced the new models but much of the new stuff is good enough to have three of.

Really?
So new stuff is Warpsmiths (overpriced), warp talons (laughable), maulerfiend (need shooting from heavy support not melee)..

The good stuff that's new is Heldrakes (need bikers or spawn too), Forgefiends (maybe) and Helbrutes are average.

I'd say the core of every single competitive list not using Abaddon or Typhus should be:
MoN Lord with brand
3x plague marines as troops
2x cultists
2x Heldrakes with Baleflamers
MoN Bikers
2x Autocannon Havocs

I take Helbrutes in there with Reapers (although termies might be better, I need the armour saturation), and a squad of MoN oblits as heavy support.

The problem with this codex is not that it is too random, it's that it's too predictable, and there's very few viable builds.

 lunarman wrote:

Now I know the Codex is new and a lot of people havent purchaced the new models but much of the new stuff is good enough to have three of.

The problem with this codex is not that it is too random, it's that it's too predictable, and there's very few viable builds.

And all this experience in a codex tbat isn't a month old yet. Must have been playing lots of games...

It isn't very hard for an experienced player to see what will work and what won't. Its obvious the first time you read it.

I have also played lots of games this month

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Would anyone agree with me that the biggest flaw with the new CSM codex is that so many factors in the codex depend on luck? Between rolling for chaos boons, warlord traits, reserves, daemonic possession, crazed, and psychic powers, so many strategies depend on you getting good rolls for these, and just one bad roll on any of these (especially reserves if the other side has fliers and yours don't come in) can ruin your entire game plan.

the problem with the chaos dex is not the randomness, it is that the randomness risk is not worth the reward. The boon table is decidely meh, full of character but meh. You can lose your character and you have to accept and challenges. A lot less freedom and some risk for a very very small chance of something good.

Psykic powers are great, the problem with the Chaos dex is that the codex god powers are worse than the rulebook powers, and you are forced to take them.

How are reserves something wrong with the Chaos codex, all armies can have reserves?

 Tarrasq wrote:
Nothing should go in a transport, unless you know what you're doing. So you should be maxing out on bodies.

Tarrasq, not a bad post except this statement is incorrect.
Rhino's are still very viable and the aided speed of delivery is almost essential. Being able to move 6 and deploy your guys a further 6 inches gives you basically a 24 inch range with a melta.

Stay away from the random elements in the book if you wish to build a competative list.
Things that are working for me that are also noted in this thread by others are:

Spawn with MoN.
Helldrakes.
Havocs.
Lords & Sorcerers.
Plague Marines.
Basic CSM.