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I'm looking for ways to minimise the carnage that can be caused by some of the uber characters in the game. As an IG player the obvious answer is to kill them before they can get to you, but sometimes this just doesn't work.

So I've been wondering about the effectiveness in 6e of a tarpit blob squad - 3 IS with sgts, + a commissar for Stubborn. The basic premise is for each sgt to take a turn getting killed in a challenge, followed by the commissar, and in the 5th round of combat, the squadies probably get cleaned up. That's about 185 pts to tie up a killing machine for 2.5 game turns - assuming the squad passes its morale checks. You could add 2 more commissars to extend the tarpit to 3.5 turns, but that's another 70 pts.

Is this idea worth considering in 6e? Is there a better way to handle things like swarmlords and similar?

You're going to get shouted down by every guy about to post in this thread, but no, I don't think it's a bad idea.

If you think you'll be running into those crazy beatstick characters a lot, it's not a crazy way to spend 35pts. The problem is that most of the time you WANT the guardsmen to run, so you can shoot the guy next turn.

However, another option I would suggest is chenkov. He's got a 12" stubborn bubble that works on any IG infantry unit within the radius, and it's saved my arse more times than I can count. I'm actually considering throwing power mauls on my platoons again just because they've been sticking around in combat so much.

I've only recently started playing guard, so I have no idea what I'm talking about, but conscripts with an IC up the back seem like they'd be ok for tarpitting.

IT'S A BAD IDEA!!!

Oh, oops, no shouting down, right.

Seriously, though, it's not the best idea. Against most beatsticks you're going to do much better by keeping three PISs separate and forcing your opponent to eat them one at a time. Not only is this likely to take longer (because once that commissar gets picked out, the squad is breaking and running), but you also get to shoot at it after every assault.

Speed bumps are probably going to do you better than blobs these days. I'd rather spend the points on a commissar on a couple of plasma or melta guns to shoot at beatsticks with instead.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
However, another option I would suggest is chenkov. He's got a 12" stubborn bubble that works on any IG infantry unit within the radius, and it's saved my arse more times than I can count.

The main problem with that is you have no control over whether you get Stubborn or not. Sometimes it's great, sometimes you have a lone surviving guardsman pass its morale check because of Stubborn and keep the enemy unit locked in combat during your shooting phase. Commissars, on the other hand, give you the choice. You can keep them alive and benefit from their morale bonus, but when you need the unit to break you just send the commissar to the front line and throw a wound on it, ensuring your squad is LD 0.

As for the OP, the value of a tarpit depends on your metagame. If you face MSU armies tarpits suck since the unit they're locking is no more expensive than the tarpit, and you're better off bringing more firepower and killing stuff. On the other hand, if you face lots of death star units a tarpit can easily win you the game by locking away the majority of your opponent's army for several turns while you finish off the rest and win on objectives.

 Peregrine wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
However, another option I would suggest is chenkov. He's got a 12" stubborn bubble that works on any IG infantry unit within the radius, and it's saved my arse more times than I can count.

The main problem with that is you have no control over whether you get Stubborn or not. Sometimes it's great, sometimes you have a lone surviving guardsman pass its morale check because of Stubborn and keep the enemy unit locked in combat during your shooting phase. Commissars, on the other hand, give you the choice. You can keep them alive and benefit from their morale bonus, but when you need the unit to break you just send the commissar to the front line and throw a wound on it, ensuring your squad is LD 0.

As for the OP, the value of a tarpit depends on your metagame. If you face MSU armies tarpits suck since the unit they're locking is no more expensive than the tarpit, and you're better off bringing more firepower and killing stuff. On the other hand, if you face lots of death star units a tarpit can easily win you the game by locking away the majority of your opponent's army for several turns while you finish off the rest and win on objectives.

Thats usually how i do it when i tarpit, but i guess the chenkov version would be an alternative, you just move the CCS away when you want the squad in CC to break. I'd be a bit wary of having my commander standing that close to a CC though.

Thanks for feedback all. I'll experiment with variations and see what happens.

Chenkov was just an alternative if you were already taking the sitnw conscripts. I would never buy chenkov just for his stubborn bubble.

The only issue with the IG blob tarpit is that one unlucky roll and your fleeing from combat, and with I3 your likely to be rundown by most assault based armies. I'd go with a SM character instead of Commissar for ATSKNF which gives you LD 10, no stubborn so you have a chance to flee combat w/o the possibility of sweeping advance. If your going pure IG then a commissar is probably mandatory then.

Thoughts on using a Lord Commissar to steady the speed bumps? Was planning on camo cloaking mine behind the ADL with some ablative wounds of some kind to keep him up.

Glocknall wrote:
The only issue with the IG blob tarpit is that one unlucky roll and your fleeing from combat

Two unlucky rolls, you mean. With a commissar you're always LD 9 with a re-roll if you fail, which means you have a 97% chance of passing the morale check. That's about as reliable as anything in a dice game ever gets.

^ Good point. I guess you have 1 less sgt for soaking up a round of combat if you have to re-roll.

 Peregrine wrote:

Glocknall wrote:
The only issue with the IG blob tarpit is that one unlucky roll and your fleeing from combat

Two unlucky rolls, you mean. With a commissar you're always LD 9 with a re-roll if you fail, which means you have a 97% chance of passing the morale check. That's about as reliable as anything in a dice game ever gets.

Yep. All it comes down to is keeping that guy alive and, more importantly, whether you actually want to stay stuck in or not.

Just bring more gun.

If I were an IG player and wanted to Tarpit something, I'd sit a full Conscript squad behind an Aegis Defense Line in the middle of my Deployment zone. I'd then sit a Space Marine Chaplain, or Belial not in the unit, but NEAR the unit. It'll take most armies 2 Turns before they get into an assault (if you pre-measure to help make sure this doesn't happen sooner). IF he decides to shoot you, then you just go to ground behind the ADL for a 2+ Cover save, and then if you really want to use the unit, just issue the order and they're good to go (If they're eligible). Enemy want's to use weapons that ignore cover? No problem, at least he's wasting it on your conscripts and not the rest of your army.

Once you've gotten to the point where you can't avoid being assaulted, or wish to assault a Deathstar or character to tie him up. then just move the Fearless character in with the Conscripts and you're opponent is only going to get free once he has killed every last man standing. Just be sure to always decline the challenge when it comes up. By the time you get down to just the character, It'll most likely be so late that it wouldn't matter, or he'll have spent so much of his resources just to be sure to eliminate that squad, that the rest of your stuff will be untouched.

Reason I mentioned Belial specifically (I guess SW would work as well), is that they both allow you to nab some Terminators as Scoring units, keeping your allies cost down, and giving you a decent assault element in your IG army. Belial can take a TH/SS so can probably hold out for a bit longer after the squad is done. With SW, you could also take a unit of TH/SS Terms to be a back-up Tarpit, that will DO something.

You do realize conscripts are LD 5 right? IG players only give them orders when literally every other unit has had a chance, because often times they'll fail. Having them go to ground is pretty much guaranteeing they're staying down. It's not a huge deal however, as you can still shoot at BS 1 while gone to ground.

Ah how could I forget about summary execution. Problem I had with my IG blobs is that Sgts and the like would precise shot my commissars out of the squad during protracted combats. If you intend you bob to be a tarpit, a PIS commissar isn't tough enough hang around for too long.

SM characters gives much better survivability and 0% chance of sweeping advance.

Also, let's not forget that shooting got a lot better. It is now easier than ever to throw a few dozen guardsmen off the table in preparation for close combat with a deathstar.

Once your blob is whittled down to a reasonable size by that helldrake or manticore or TFC or flamer sternguard or whatever, they're not going to be tarpitting for long, even against something with a low number of attacks.