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So, my escalation league is escalating next monday up to 1500 points. So far, my experiences have gotten me a list I like, but I've gotten to the end with points to spend, and I can't quite figure out what to do with them.

So the list so far is...

CCS - power fist, standard, lascannon
Priest - eviscerator

10x stormtroopers - 2x flamers
10x stormtroopers - 2x meltaguns
10x stormtroopers - 2x meltaguns

PCS - chenkov, lascannon
PIS - meltagun, lascannon
PIS - meltagun, lascannon
20x conscripts - Send in The Next Wave!

PCS - lascannon
PIS - meltagun, lascannon
PIS - meltagun, lascannon

... which lands me with 155 points to spare. Now, I know that's kind of an inconvenient number of points, and I'd be willing to wiggle that up to 165 or even 170 if there was something particularly interesting to put in its place.

So far, I'm thinking...

PIS - meltagun, lascannon
PIS - meltagun, lascannon

Makes a foot horde list foot hordier. Makes a lascannon spam list lascannon spammier.

My only real concerns are about having an even more packed DZ, and about how it sort of lacks offensive power outside of the stormtroopers. It kind of smells... gunliney

Demolisher - hull heavy flamer

If I'm going to include a vehicle, I think this is going to be my only serious choice. I might like a medusa here, but a single artillery piece isn't going to have much staying power. I also like the idea of a colossus, but have the same problem. Meanwhile the demolisher is killy and survivable. Still the only vehicle, though...

Vets - harker, 3x flamers, lascannon

This gives me a lot of offensive power. We're talking infiltrating onto the relic. We're talking outflanking onto objectives and clearing them with flamers. Stealth and 3x flamers gives them a lot of defensive abilities too, and another BS4 lascannon wouldn't hurt in the worst case scenarios.

On the other hand, we ARE only talking about 10 models here, and in said worst case scenario where infiltrating or outflanking doesn't make sense, it IS a lot to pay for what will probably amount to a single lascannon

3x scout sentinel squad - 3x lascannons

I get the outflanking offensive maneuvering to back up my stormtroopers on the ground, and I get three lascannons, what's not to like about this?

Well, firstly, I'd need to borrow a sentinel model from someone as I only have two of these guys. Secondly, they do suffer a little bit from the only-vehicle problem. Does give me more anti-tank, though.

I would vote for the demolisher, as it will add something you don't have with any other option- a pie plate.

I second the Demolisher. Even though it might be a big target because of how powerful it is, the possible damage output it provides is staggering. Plus, if your opponent does focus on it, it means your troops survive that much longer.

I would add a Vendetta or fortification with quad-gun and use the rest of the points for upgrades. Your list seems extremely weak to flyers, though it's possible that people don't take those types of flyers in your local league.

Oh people take fliers. The strategy here is to ignore them.

What I'm going for here is to win the ground game. If I focus my attention on killing my opponent's scoring units, then it doesn't matter what my opponent has in the air, because he's not holding any objectives on the ground. The only caveat is the two fliers that are also transports, but that's what I'm relying on all my lascannons for. Plus, adding a single quad gun that's going to be instantly targetable isn't going to do much.

I suppose that does cast a vote in favor of the sentinels, though, as they can shoot at fliers in an emergency situations, unlike a demolisher.

well tanks are a no go! any flyer will happily wreck them. As a ba player, I would quite happily drive my storm-raven up into seniels or demolisher's faces and well multimelta them, assualt cannon them, bloodstrike missile them, till they were nothing but pulp! Ignoring flyers is going to be hard and i think the addition of an ageis defense line is your best option. It will allow you to tackle flyers in relative comfort, seen as it has the intercept rule( Something like that, which means you can shoot out of sequence, when it enters play), while giving your gun-line some extra cover.

... or the quad gun could be killed off on the first round of shooting, possibly before my opponent's fliers even arrive.

I think you're right about the other impact, though. How well am I really going to keep a single demolisher alive in the world of death rays?

I like the idea of the three scout sentinels. I miss seeing their 4th ed antics they were always up to and 3 outflanking lascannons cant be bad. Preferably those lascannons would be on a vendetta but since i know how much you appose them i know thats not happening.

I think the scout sentinals are the safer route. I would think there would be much greater varience in the damage caused by the Demolisher - it has a 26% chance of scattering 4" or more , which should be enough to miss most targets completely. The sentinals have a 12.5% chance of all missing the same turn. Even if you say the Demolisher's average output is better, you have to weight the consistency of the sentinals against the Demolisher as they have the advantage in that category.

I think with the number of flyers around you'll want the sentinals. If you go that route you might think of fitting in the HQ guy who allows you to mess with your reserves. This could allow you to hold them off the table and come in after the flyers.

Demolisher is good, but i think the sentinals are thematic.

A single demolisher can be cut down quite easily, you need to take it in pairs. Sentinels are too fragile for my taste, and with no other vehicles around, a TAC list's entire AT will probably shoot at them. Not a problem if you're OK with getting a single round of shooting, of course. I'd personally go for Harker's Catachan Devils, who can do a LOT of damage when they infiltrate into cover. I like getting camo cloaks and a long range weapon on them, with a +2 to cover saves, and use them in a similar way to Eldar Pathfinders. Expensive, but effective at what it does in my book.

I also think you should go with Harker. One Demolisher is a single target, easy to focus fire on. Three scout sentinels are either gonna hit home runs or whiff. Or I would go with the additional 20 guardsmen in the PIS.

The problem with harker, though, is that I don't have the points to outfit him properly. Either he has camo cloaks or a lascannon, but not both. A harker deathsquad with only a 3+ save doesn't seem that great, but a harker deathsquad with nothing but 3x flamers doesn't seem very good either...

As for the sentinels, unfortunately there's no way that I can delay my own reserves as guard other than hoping for strategic genius as my warlord trait.

I have a question about your list, Ailaros. You are spamming LCs. LC spam will be good against those pesky vehicles and monstrous creatures your opponent is going to bring, I understand that. But why are you arming your Stormies with meltas? You have enough AT already. And 10-men squad with 2 meltas can use against vehicles..well...2 meltas. If you arm them with plazmas, you have nice anti-heavy infantry unit. Plazmas are better friends for hot-shot lasguns then meltas

And what would I add to your list? Certainly not a vehicle, that would be an easy target. I vote for another two PISs with LCs. For the horde!

I would run the sentinels. You can split them up so that they would have to be targeted separately, which would save the rest of your army from your opponents shooting. Outflanking is also nice since you can use them to target rear armor or support your advancing infantry. Even equipped with the basic multilaser, your wounding most infantry on 2's, and still have a shot at taking down fliers. You also have the option of squadroning them if you get a KP based mission. In addition, giving them searchlights will allow your lascannons to pick targets off during nightfight.

Have you thought about just taking a regular LRBT? You seem to have enough AP 2 with all the lascannons and meltaguns running around. A tank would add some pie plates to your army, but its putting all the firepower into a single platform that could be taken out with a single lucky shot. I've also come to hate the limited range of the demolisher, especially when going against necrons :(

If you gave your second PIS (2 x 10 man) AC instead of LC would that give you enough points to fit out Harker the way you want? Then you could utilize the 20 man PIS as anti light armor or anti MC or as a speedbump.

Can I vote for 2 squads of 6 roughriders with flamers?

I have been playing a lot of 6th with outflanking sentinels, and I just dont think they are that viable. The problem is half the time they miss their shots and then they are dead, just doesnt seem to be a good use of points. I think multilasers are probably more reliable, or otherwise you at least need some hunter killer missiles.

I would go with the demolisher, this will start soaking up firepower that would be picking on you infantry for lack of a better target (including ordnance). Also sometimes people just cant deal with a bubble wrapped russ and it gets a free run for most of the game.

Lothar wrote:But why are you arming your Stormies with meltas? You have enough AT already. And 10-men squad with 2 meltas can use against vehicles..well...2 meltas. If you arm them with plazmas, you have nice anti-heavy infantry unit.

Well, firstly, I don't see plasma as actually synergizing that well with hellguns. The things you kill with hellguns are things you don't need plasma for, and the things you need plasma for, hellguns can't hurt.

Secondly, plasma hates me. No, I'm not just misremembering those times I suffer burns and forgetting the times I don't. It's well-documented.

seanm222 wrote:You can split them up so that they would have to be targeted separately, which would save the rest of your army from your opponents shooting.

I don't know, I'd probably keep them together. 1/3rd of the missions will pretty heavily penalize me for having three flimsy sentinel units.

I'm considering the searchlights, though. Obviously it would be better to have them separate here, but I don't know if it overcomes the drawbacks.

seanm222 wrote:Have you thought about just taking a regular LRBT? You seem to have enough AP 2 with all the lascannons and meltaguns running around.

Yeah, but that's because lascannons and meltaguns are good. I don't really see what an LRBT is contributing.

Were I wanting something Ap3, I'd take a colossus, which I'm actually getting more and more tempted by.

TheLionOfTheForest wrote:If you gave your second PIS (2 x 10 man) AC instead of LC would that give you enough points to fit out Harker the way you want? Then you could utilize the 20 man PIS as anti light armor or anti MC or as a speedbump.

Sure, but I'd be loathe to loose two whole lascannons just to give harker a +1 to his cover save.

Ashwaster wrote:Can I vote for 2 squads of 6 roughriders with flamers?

Sure. Why?

Ashwaster wrote:I have been playing a lot of 6th with outflanking sentinels, and I just dont think they are that viable. The problem is half the time they miss their shots and then they are dead, just doesnt seem to be a good use of points

Well, that would be the point in bringing 3 of them. 3 lascannons are much more likely to do something than 1, and 6HP are going to be tougher to clear than just 2.

 Ailaros wrote:

Ashwaster wrote:Can I vote for 2 squads of 6 roughriders with flamers?

Sure. Why?

Ashwaster wrote:I have been playing a lot of 6th with outflanking sentinels, and I just dont think they are that viable. The problem is half the time they miss their shots and then they are dead, just doesnt seem to be a good use of points

Well, that would be the point in bringing 3 of them. 3 lascannons are much more likely to do something than 1, and 6HP are going to be tougher to clear than just 2.

I am looking at the rough riders as a form of target saturation, they should be similar priority to you CCS. Hide them in cover and go to ground if they are taking a lot of firepower, they may not even need get back into the fight for the first turn or two. The points for fast moving (even cover doesnt slow them down) krak grenade flamer guardsmen isnt that bad. Maybe not the best use of points available, but worth considering I think (and I would just love to see a few more cavalry charges in the far flung future). Admittedly all of what I have said is just wild speculation till I get a chance to try it out.

I ran 2 x 3 multilaser scout sentinels in my first 6th edition tournament, and they were very hit and miss. They seemed to do well when the rest of my army was also doing well, but if I was struggling when they came on they just failed. They may have been a little unsupported in my list, but they are just so easy to kill. Coming on with your stormtroopers may give them a bit more of a chance. I know you like Lascannons, but I think multilasers and hunterkillers is a better set-up for outflanking.

I'd go with the two extra squads. Could always use more bodies and more guns.

I'd also want a commissar for that blob though.

I know you said you didn't want to do it, but you should just drop the priest with the eviscerator and use the points to spruce up Harker and keep the LCs everywhere you want them. Otherwise we keep going around in circles. I know you want to have your cake and eat it too, but I think you need to figure out where you are going to compromise. Maybe you take the priest out and add him back in at the next escalation level.

An Aegis, Quad-Gun and a Chimera would fill those points perfectly. I also enjoy Manticores if you can squeeze the 5 points for one. A Vendetta makes great anti-flyer and anti-tank at range, but if flyers are big in your meta your opponent will probably be ready to shoot it down somehow.

Could always take a couple of squads of penal legion to have running around in the back field and try to grab objectives

In all seriousness, I'd either get more things in the back field (sentinels) or just play to your other strength and just add even more infantry to your DZ. You also have the points for a second blob of SITNW conscripts, but I don't really think they're necessary at this point level.

So yeah, either two more melta/lascannon squads, or the sentinels.

Testify wrote:I'd also want a commissar for that blob though.

Why? I'm not intending on blobbing them outside of purge missions.

plus1jeremy wrote:An Aegis, Quad-Gun and a Chimera would fill those points perfectly.

But what would this really get me? An autocannon and a couple of heavy bolters?

MrMoustaffa wrote:You also have the points for a second blob of SITNW conscripts, but I don't really think they're necessary at this point level

Actually, I've been considering this as well.

If there's anything I'm starting to learn about 6th ed (well, maybe it was true all along, and just didn't notice it), it's that doubling down is always better than betting, and tripling down is almost always better than doubling down. If you have a strategic advantage, press it to the hilt, every time. Basically, it's the strategic version of the "buy 1, buy 3" of guard list building.

If this idea is, in fact, correct, then I'd want to be careful to dilute my strategic shtick too much, and the extra conscripts would, actually, be the way to go, as they would keep up the infantry craziness. I mean, is one squad of conscripts and 50 platoon infantry ACTUALLY going to be enough?

On the other hand, I don't want to be stuck in my DZ all the time, and the other half of the sword and dagger is the dagger, and I dont' have enough points to add in both more conscripts AND more outflanking units at the same time.

I suppose this really has been the problem since I've started to play this style.

 Ailaros wrote:

plus1jeremy wrote:An Aegis, Quad-Gun and a Chimera would fill those points perfectly.

But what would this really get me? An autocannon and a couple of heavy bolters?

The Aegis gives at least one platoon defense to sit on an objective and/or avoid kill points. The Quad-Gun is for anti-air and somewhat anti-horde. You have a lot of lascannon, so your anti-vehicle is fine, but all those single-shot attacks will have a hard time with a flyer. Chimeras give more defense and options. If for some reason you find you need mobility for a mission or army, you can mechanize a squad.

If not that, I'd get some kind of Russ or a Manticore myself. If it's your only artillery it needs to either have a wide area of effect (Manticore) or stay alive long enough to effectively draw fire (Russ). As your only vehicle, it'll take every last anti-vehicle shot your opponent has.

How about two Griffons? Two cheap and reliable str 6 pie plates can lay the bomb down on enemy infantry or light vehicles, and though they'll be your only two tanks, at least you can hide them behind terrain and provide a nuisance the enemy will be obliged to react to.