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Today after much debate I picked up Island of blood starter set, upon opening the box set I was faced with the problem related to rules, the book labeled "read this first" did not list any of the models stat-lines, I use to play 40k and fantasy a few years back and saw this as a bit of a pain to flip through the rules to find out stats for each unit or character, thankfully i was able to find a print out to solve this problem. another problem I came across was that my friend has never played any games-workshop related game so I found it rather difficult that games-workshop has not provided any scenarios for this set to teach new players how each unit works, thinking I could just look up on the internet for the scenarios and to my surprise the games-workshop website provided a scenario article but this option was shot down immediately upon discovering that the article section was not found on the GW website, at this point my friend is still determined to learn the game so we played the game anyways and both of us found it rather mind numbing to play and rather annoying to have to flip through the rule book over and over and over again for different rules, it was not enjoyable at all, and im wondering if I can call GW or even bring back the game for a refund due to the lack of information they provided in the box, neither me or my friend have enough time in a day to flip through the entire rules especially when we were both under the impression that some sort of quick start rules or scenarios would be included in the set, its rather disappointing to find out that the game was put together in a sloppy fashion and wasted my friends and my time playing it, it seemed like a good idea to each pick up an army and get involved with fantasy battle but from this experience I think im going to avoid this game like the plague.

That's kind of sad to hear. I personally think the island of blood set is awesome to add to my skaven force. I think warhammer is a game you generally have to sit down and read to. If you don't have the time to read the 100 pages of rules (probably not that much if you want to know the basics) of the new edition of the game then maybe the game isn't for you. You could alternatively use the rules you may have had from a previous edition.

I prefer the idea of the starter set as a means to bolster my army of skaven and similar for high elf players but if somebody doesn't have the time for it i can see how that'd be hard. I only split the game so i can't remember everything it has.

I'm sorry to hear your start back into the game was an unpleasant one. I'm not a GW customer support person though and i have no way to effect this.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
That's kind of sad to hear. I personally think the island of blood set is awesome to add to my skaven force. I think warhammer is a game you generally have to sit down and read to. If you don't have the time to read the 100 pages of rules (probably not that much if you want to know the basics) of the new edition of the game then maybe the game isn't for you. You could alternatively use the rules you may have had from a previous edition.

I prefer the idea of the starter set as a means to bolster my army of skaven and similar for high elf players but if somebody doesn't have the time for it i can see how that'd be hard. I only split the game so i can't remember everything it has.

I'm sorry to hear your start back into the game was an unpleasant one. I'm not a GW customer support person though and i have no way to effect this.

I can understand that it would be a great cheap alternative to boost your army especially if you sell the other half your not using and get a pocket sized rule booklet to carry with you instead of the huge GW bible, but as a 2 player starter set it really lacks if you have never played before, and in most cases a starter set is suppose to get new players into the game even with my previous experience with the game i found it rather difficult to get into the game with the way they have set it up, I dont mind flipping through the rulebook in an afternoon but from what the representive told me at the store was its a pick up and play starter set.

That's an incredibly rough assessment.

Take the time to read the rules. Unlike 40k, Fantasy's movement is much more complex and has many more rules, things like wheeling maneuvers are difficult to understand unless you practice them for a while.

All of the stat lines are in the rulebook. Additionally, you can a stat sheet on the GW website.

To be fair, the "read this first" book is awful. However, by reading through the actual rulebook and taking your time with it I think you'll find that the game is quite rewarding despite the initial learning curve (which, granted, isn't quite so large)

If its a GW store I thought they would show you how to play. If not, you could probably still get someone from the store to help you. The "read first" super lacking, but if anything, just read through & play with the basic rules first. I remember when I first was learning how to play without a veteran helping there was a lot of attempted "games" where we found ourselves having to write down questions & then proceeding.

I do have bad news though, you will have to read to play this game.

GW do an amazing job with miniatures in starter sets, but aside from chucking in a free rulebook, they do a really poor job of introducing the game to new players.

The Flames of War starter set (Open Fire) is incredible. The "getting started" book is practically a rule book in itself and takes you through the basics of the game step by step (the full rulebook is also included). The box also contains complete stats and army lists for the armies in the box (both of which are game legal).

GW could really learn from this approach.

I also started playing Fantasy today with an Island of Blood set and found the read this first guide absolutely useless.

Like the OP said, a few scenarios would have been very handy. It's quite daunting when you've suddenly got models and have no idea what they're really worth in game terms.

It's a flaw in the set. While the stats are in the rulebook, there's nothing telling you specifically what each unit is equipped with, like a quick reference sheet for the units.

Thankfully GW did notice after release and released the sheet on their website.

Unfortunately they didn't do the smart thing and release high quality prints for free through their stores (as far as I know), and hid the PDF on their website (I could only find it by googling 'GW island of blood pdf').

the only problemis, if you tell the GW staff you're having troubble with the rules they'll be more than happy to teach you but from your post it doesnt sound like you have the time for it. what I would do is have a few games focusing on each core aspect of the game, so movement, shooting, combat etc so that you can learn the rules in managable chunks

There's also youtube where people all you have to do is watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70k7NWKISH0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTK6BY12RYQ&feature=related

The "i don't have time" excuse means "i want someone to show me."

I think it's totally reasonable, when you're paying so much for your game, to expect some sort of introductory rules booklet. The older sets did this very well, it can't be that expensive to produce. Privateer include easy to use Quick Start Rules in all their starters.

Da Boss wrote:
I think it's totally reasonable, when you're paying so much for your game, to expect some sort of introductory rules booklet. The older sets did this very well, it can't be that expensive to produce. Privateer include easy to use Quick Start Rules in all their starters.

It does seem like a big oversight and not maliciously done, considering its on their website as a PDF. Just in true GW style they haven't told people and haven't put it in new sets.

I know your pain OP I have played 40k since 2nd but only played fantasy on the odd occasions.

I picked up the starter set for my wife and I so she could try out table top gaming. I found the best way was to photocopy the summary at the back of the rule book and then make a crib sheet with the special rules and weapons for each of your units. I cut down the time it takes us to play and helps my wife remember what her elves can do.

No scenarios is rough, especially when trying it out on friends. I bought the macragge set for 40k and it had some and it was nice but I wish they would keep it up with their new sets.

 Flashman wrote:
GW do an amazing job with miniatures in starter sets, but aside from chucking in a free rulebook, they do a really poor job of introducing the game to new players.

The Flames of War starter set (Open Fire) is incredible. The "getting started" book is practically a rule book in itself and takes you through the basics of the game step by step (the full rulebook is also included). The box also contains complete stats and army lists for the armies in the box (both of which are game legal).

GW could really learn from this approach.

Yes. I think having a legal starting army in the box, at the smallest sensible size for a game, should be industry standard. And if the smallest sensible size for a game of WHFB is 1,000 points and that'd cost GW too much to put in the starter box... well that's a problem they have to address by looking to make smaller games workable, fun games (because if they can't afford to put it in a the box, you can be sure that lots of kids can't afford to buy in).

From there, it should be pretty straight forward to have a starting scenario that goes through deployment and what each player should do with each unit in their first (so state that archers are best off standing still and shooting at the approaching Skaven, and to do that you roll 10 dice, then pick up all the dice that roll 4 or higher and so on), and maybe even up to the first charge. Then tell them they're free to see how this game concludes, or start over with a new game. But it all begins from having proper forces included in the box.

It seems that they've very much learned their lesson from this, as the getting started booklet in the Dark Vengeance set for 40k is much better, containing step by step instructions and several tutorial scenarios that introduce different troop types etc.

In an ideal world they'd produce an equivalent booklet for Island of Blood and either put it in new copies going forward or put it online for download.

pgmason wrote:
In an ideal world they'd produce an equivalent booklet for Island of Blood and either put it in new copies going forward or put it online for download.

They did. I've posted it several times now. Not as much as in Dark Vengeance, but it's got all of the stats and equipment for all of the units in the game. It does let you play the game with what's in the box. It's still short of scenarios and stuff, but those unit profiles were all that was missing to actually play. It's on their website.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sebster wrote:
Yes. I think having a legal starting army in the box, at the smallest sensible size for a game, should be industry standard. And if the smallest sensible size for a game of WHFB is 1,000 points and that'd cost GW too much to put in the starter box... well that's a problem they have to address by looking to make smaller games workable, fun games (because if they can't afford to put it in a the box, you can be sure that lots of kids can't afford to buy in).

The problem is, 'smallest sensible size' is purely subjective. My friends and I have always found in any edition of either 40k or Fantasy since 40k 2nd edition 500pts to be the best sensible starting size. It lets you take a hero, the needed core (generally not needing to double up on boxes unless the army is particularly hordish like VC) and a 'fun' unit. I've met people who, for their introductory game, nothing is acceptable other than tournament sized and optimised lists.

Isle of Blood is actually a decent starter. Each side has some core, some 'fun' units and a hero (and in the case of the High Elves, a hero on a monster mount). The only thing needed is a better getting started booklet and evening out the points balance a bit.

 -Loki- wrote:
The problem is, 'smallest sensible size' is purely subjective. My friends and I have always found in any edition of either 40k or Fantasy since 40k 2nd edition 500pts to be the best sensible starting size. It lets you take a hero, the needed core (generally not needing to double up on boxes unless the army is particularly hordish like VC) and a 'fun' unit. I've met people who, for their introductory game, nothing is acceptable other than tournament sized and optimised lists.

No, 'smallest sensible size' is pretty straight forward - it means the smallest size that people will choose to play, even if they have other larger sizes available to them. Exactly what that size is is subjective, but it certainly isn't anything like the points count you see in the Island of Blood sets.

And so if it becomes clear that it is too pricy to put 1,000 or 1,500 points of stuff in the box, well that should tell GW something about how much people, either through a starter box or just through buying an army, need to invest to play a normal game.

Isle of Blood is actually a decent starter. Each side has some core, some 'fun' units and a hero (and in the case of the High Elves, a hero on a monster mount). The only thing needed is a better getting started booklet and evening out the points balance a bit.

It's one of the best starters GW has put together, especially when you consider the quality of the models put into the set (its great that the minis in there don't look at all out of place compared to the normally priced figures). But that doesn't mean it's as a good as a box set can be, and having two armies that you can't actually put up against each other in legal, fairly balanced games is definitely something that can be improved.

 sebster wrote:
No, 'smallest sensible size' is pretty straight forward - it means the smallest size that people will choose to play, even if they have other larger sizes available to them. Exactly what that size is is subjective, but it certainly isn't anything like the points count you see in the Island of Blood sets.

So smallest sensible size is not subjective, it's the smallest size people will choose to play. But the size they choose to play is subjective. That makes the smallest sensible size subjective.

I wasn't saying anything about the contents of Island of Blood, just that everyone chooses a different starting size. So it's hard to make a starter that pleases everyone in regards to having a 'complere' set of models. The best thing they can do is make sure they're balanced against each other.

 -Loki- wrote:
So smallest sensible size is not subjective, it's the smallest size people will choose to play. But the size they choose to play is subjective. That makes the smallest sensible size subjective.

I wasn't saying anything about the contents of Island of Blood, just that everyone chooses a different starting size. So it's hard to make a starter that pleases everyone in regards to having a 'complere' set of models. The best thing they can do is make sure they're balanced against each other.

What size people who aren't even buying the box set (as it doesn't contain the armies they like) might choose to start playing at is meaningless. What matters is if people can play a fun, viable game with the stuff that is in the box.