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Jet Pack Infantry questions. Reference page 47 40k rulebook.

1. Can Jetpack units charge after deep strike and run?

2. Do they have the choice either a 2d6" move in assault or the option of a 6"?

 Daemonhound63 wrote:
Jet Pack Infantry questions. Reference page 47 40k rulebook.

1. Can Jetpack units charge after deep strike and run?

2. Do they have the choice either a 2d6" move in assault or the option of a 6"?

1. Only 3 things may assault after coming from reserve. VV;Ork SC;Option C

2. It says they can move up to 2d6 in the assault phase.

Why would they have a choice of a 6" move in the assault phase?

As above the rules are clear. No to 1 and 2d6" to 2.

1. They cannot assault after run or DS,
2. 2D6,

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Why would they have a choice of a 6" move in the assault phase?

As above the rules are clear. No to 1 and 2d6" to 2.

(Quoting the Warhammer 6th edition rulebook page 47 below all IP is owned be Games Workshop)

THRUST MOVE
(Paragraph 1)
"A Jet Pack unit that is not locked in combat or charging can move up to 2D6" in the Assault phase, even if they have shot or Run in the preceding Shooting phase or arrived by Deep Strike that turn.(Jet Pack entry pg 47)"

*So what is said here clearly is a 2d6" movement can happen in two instances, even if a they have run or Deep Struck. 1. not locked in combat. 2. charging.
*So charging means you are charging. So it would mean you can charge 2d6" even after run or deep strike.
*The word NOT is used for locked in combat. Now in the english language when a Boolean grammar of OR is used it seperates both instances, which are

1. not locked in combat.

2. Charging.

*Boolean grammar would require for the negative statement of NOT to carry over to the second portion with the word NOR , NOR being a negative version of which would mean not charging, not the word or. So thus in using OR means you are charging 2d6", which is a sub phase of assault, ignoring Deep Strike and Run.

Now for the 6" move option
THRUST MOVE
(Paragraph 2)
"When Jet Pack units move in the Assault phase and do not charge, they move just as they would when using their jet packs in the Movement phase.(Jet Pack entry pg 47)"
* So as before in the assault phase I could move 2d6" if I am not locked in combat. Now It appears I have an option of movement in the assault phase if I do not charge.
*That option is to move just as I would in the movement phase, which is 6" movement.

Interesting destinction, I don't think I'm qualified to talk about grammar.
Comparing the wording for Jet packs to the wording for Eldar Jetbikes (page 45), the EJB one is much clearer on when you can use it (...may move up to 2D6" in the Assault Phase, even if they don't charge and even if they arrived by Deep Strike that turn. When Eldar Jetbikes move in the Assault phase and do not charge, they treat difficult terrain in the same way as they do in the Movement phase...)
So it's odd that the phrasing on Jet packs is different for what I had been assuming to be functionally identical moves.

The intent of the wording isn't too confusing, though, even if it does leave an opening for a more generous interpretation. It's trying to say you ignore intervening terrain and treat taking off and landing in difficult terrain as moving in or out of dangerous terrain (and that you may move on the hypotenuse when scaling buildings rather than having to look for a ladder, and so on).

that is not (locked in combat or charging)

So as long as you are not charging you can make a 2D6" move. This is allowed even after DS. If you DS you have a) arrived from reserves, and cannot assault and b) you have DS and so cannot assault

If you parse this sentence accurately, not how you have done, you do not lift either restriction

1. They can not assault.

2.just 2D6.

The quote you are using for the jet pack infantry moving 6" in the assault phase. It actually allows them to move as they do in the movement phase which is to move like jet infantry.

So 2d6 moving like jump infantry.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
that is not (locked in combat or charging)

So as long as you are not charging you can make a 2D6" move. This is allowed even after DS. If you DS you have a) arrived from reserves, and cannot assault and b) you have DS and so cannot assault

If you parse this sentence accurately, not how you have done, you do not lift either restriction

Accurately, this is not programming for one its english, using different syntax. Also I quoted straight from the rulebook, so I have not inaccurately given anything. I have just pointed out the mere overlooked tactic or mistaken wording in a rulebook. No inaccuracy just facts from the rulebook and grammar. Nor would be needed to carry over the second negative with in a statement.

The whole entry needs to be overviewed. Movement says that they move as units of their type, but units of their type is jetpack infantry. They have no defined movement.

The whole entry is broad and need a huge ammendment. I have emailed GW and hopefully will have this entry amended with proper English.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 liturgies of blood wrote:
The quote you are using for the jet pack infantry moving 6" in the assault phase. It actually allows them to move as they do in the movement phase which is to move like jet infantry.

So 2d6 moving like jump infantry.

Why require 2 separate paragraphs if all they needed to say was move using skyborne . As I said before this either needs amended or cleared up if both are allowed

Honestly I think Skyborne should have been a special rule. Save page space for both jump and jet pack and allow better clarification
.

The reason was too make it very clear. In assault phase you move 2d6", you move as you during the movement phase. Stop easter egging for a chance to get some crisis suits mutilated in a poorly though out tactic to charge them into combat.

Skyborne is about how to move. Movement almost always happens in the controlling players turn during the movement phase, this is an exception to the norm. That is why there are two paragraphs.

Paragraph 1 deals with when you can and what you may do. You may move in the assault phase when not charging and not locked in combat, further to this the general restrictions on movment in the assault phase following a run or DS are lifted SO LONG AS YOU DO NOT CHARGE.
Paragraph 2 deals with specifics of the movement. Ie that you apply skyborne.

Well while you have many good ideas on what should be done I suggest you email the design team. Maybe 7th ed with look like you want the game to look. For now we have 6th and the rules that are there.

Daemonhound - you inaccruately PARSED the sentence, as in your reading is inaccurate; your conclusion that you are allowed to charge fails because of this. It also doesnt lift the restriction on charging after arrvingin from reserve or from DS, which you did not address.

My reading of the 6" or 2D6" is that they get the 2D6" option in the assault phase. Not to initiate an assault, but simply to move.

During the movement phase, the choice to not use your jetpack is simply to allow you to move as infantry without jet packs. Basically, it's good for moving through difficult terrain without having to take a dangerous terrain test.

As far as I can see, there is no option to do this in the assault phase - you have to use the 2D6" jet pack move in order to move in the assault phase which means dangerous terrain tests if you start or end your move in difficult terrain (you can move over it without testing though).

 liturgies of blood wrote:
The reason was too make it very clear. In assault phase you move 2d6", you move as you during the movement phase. Stop easter egging for a chance to get some crisis suits mutilated in a poorly though out tactic to charge them into combat.

Skyborne is about how to move. Movement almost always happens in the controlling players turn during the movement phase, this is an exception to the norm. That is why there are two paragraphs.

Paragraph 1 deals with when you can and what you may do. You may move in the assault phase when not charging and not locked in combat, further to this the general restrictions on movment in the assault phase following a run or DS are lifted SO LONG AS YOU DO NOT CHARGE.
Paragraph 2 deals with specifics of the movement. Ie that you apply skyborne.

Well while you have many good ideas on what should be done I suggest you email the design team. Maybe 7th ed with look like you want the game to look. For now we have 6th and the rules that are there.

That is mostly why i started this post, was to get the opinions of other gamers and challenge the rules as written, prior to contacting the FAQ email. I have always played the way everyone has stated and will continue until errata or FAQ's have changed or clarified. I am not out to gain an advantage and do not use loopholes in games.

I just have frustrations for Warhammer being the leader in tabletop gaming and smaller game companies have better more clear rules. It seems the resources of writing for 40k is heavily allocated to Fluff and not rules.

As for tactics if this should allow assault after deep strike is Tarpitting wtih drones, farsight against standard MEQ's, and allies with corsairs with jetpacks.

and as for the 6" in assault I would just like to have a guaranteed movement than a chance to not get my suits back from charging distances.

Thank you for all the feedback I am going to start writing GW an email hopefully to clear this up and hopefully others will to so it is seen as a problem.

Except it isnt.

You have no permission t assault after arriving from reserve. Prove otherwise, as you still refuse to addres this point

You have no permission to assault after DS. Prove otherwise, as you still refuse to address this point.

Your failed parsing of the sentence, which ignores English, is not a fault of the games designers, and is not a problem.

I'm fully with nosferatu1001 in this, you're parsing the sentence wrong. It's actually Daemonhound63 who's treating it like a bad maths compiler.

Neither nor is not a common way to describe things in English anymore, in the same group as whom. The words aren't obsolete, but no longer part of what people actually use.

Even if you decide to use the poor parsing, it would still not specifically overrule the general rule of not being allowed to assault during a turn you arrive from Deep Striking since it's a general statement which applies to a large variety of situations - and it's also an odd interpretation since it would in that case provide you with a means to assault 2D6 through terrain specifically during a turn you arrive through Deep Striking, but not other turns where you'd select the lower pair of 3D6.

You can't assault the turn you arrive, you aren't given permission to.

You can shoot or run, then do the jet pack move in the assault phase.

Just an FYI, the point of the second half of the thrust move rule is to notify the reader that the Jet Pack unit moves in the assault phase using the skyborne rule, the same way they move in the movement phase when using their jetpacks.

Eh? Just to clarify, since this thread detoured somewhat onto who parsed the sentence incorrectly - if a Corsair with a jetpack wishes to assault, then it can assault 2D6". If you use your jetpack, then difficult becomes dangerous if you start or end in terrain. If you don't use your jetpack, then you roll 3D6, discarding the highest dice when you assault through terrain.

Really, the choice between using and not using your jump pack comes down to how you are going to traverse terrain really.

And no, you cannot assault after deep striking. The Jet pack just allows you to make a Thrust move in the assault phase which is simply movement, not a move that engages the enemy.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Except it isnt.

You have no permission t assault after arriving from reserve. Prove otherwise, as you still refuse to addres this point

You have no permission to assault after DS. Prove otherwise, as you still refuse to address this point.

Your failed parsing of the sentence, which ignores English, is not a fault of the games designers, and is not a problem.

Parsing does not help it just identifies charging as a Noun Phrase, but I found what I was needing for paragraph one. with adverb conjunctions carrying on to the second verb. The grammatical rules state that the not does carry over, but IMO and grammar website opinions we think (neither nor) or they also say (and not) are better suited for such instances. Mostly because the use of the word NOR is less and less the rules allow for the adverb to carry with out repeating of continuing.

The second paragraph still comes off vague with its interpretation and needs to identify more as Skyborne instead of movement. It needs to be one coherent rule used through out the rule book.

I understand inconsistency between codex's, but in a 6 paragraph entry to not carry out the word skyborne thorughout the entry is not a full effort.

Frankly Daemonhound, I have yet to see a grammar interpretation be the correct interpretation of a rule. When one or more sides start resorting to grammar the discussion is over.

As others have stated, you fail to show where permission to charge after Deepstrike or arriving from reserves is given…even with your fancy grammar.


<Funny enough, edited for grammar correction.>

 hisdudeness wrote:
Frankly Daemonhound, I have yet to see a grammar interpretation be the correct interpretation of a rule. When one or more sides start resorting to grammar the discussion is over.

As other have stated, you fail to show where permission to charge after Deepstrike or arriving from reserves is give…ever with your fancy grammar.

Yeah i just admitted to that in the previous comment, when I found the grammar disproving my question. I have said that is not how i play nor how i interpret personally. Just was wanting to see why it comes off a little confusing