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I really don't get how this thing works. I have played 2 games now against an army that fielded an ADL and both guys just parked his whole army behind it. Granted I won both games, my problem was he had guys 12' away from the line getting the save, but wouldn't my guys get the same 4+ cover save with that guy shooting that far away from the line? Just how does the thing work for troops on the other side of it?

Also how do you assault troops behind it with foot units? Do I have to destroy the line first? Does it count as dificult terrain and I just hop over it?

The section under Battlefield Debris adressing defense lines has your answer. BRB is at home...

Its a piece of terrain. You need a DT test to go over it.

And for cover its purely LoS based.

If 25% of the target models are obscured by it, they get the 4+ cover. Doesn't matter if they are 2 miles away, its still blocking the shot.

x13rads wrote:
I really don't get how this thing works. I have played 2 games now against an army that fielded an ADL and both guys just parked his whole army behind it. Granted I won both games, my problem was he had guys 12' away from the line getting the save, but wouldn't my guys get the same 4+ cover save with that guy shooting that far away from the line? Just how does the thing work for troops on the other side of it?

You use True Line of Sight, so if you are shooting him and his guys are 25% or more obscured they get a cover save. When he is shooting you the same rules apply, so if your models are 25% or more covered by the ADL then you get a cover save as well. (See P.18 cover saves for more details).

x13rads wrote:
Also how do you assault troops behind it with foot units?

The same way you assault anything declare your charge, and follow the rules for assaulting. (See P.20/22 Charge Sub-phase for more details).

x13rads wrote:
Do I have to destroy the line first?

The ADL can not be destroyed.

x13rads wrote:
Does it count as difficult terrain and I just hop over it?

It is Terrain: "Battlefield Debris (Defence Lines)" P. 104

If that is the case, and it uses true line of sight, than any models on either side of the line that are basically the same size and height would receive the same save correct?

Not necessarily, it depends on the distance from the ADL. There are numerous ways for a model to be partially hidden from view , yet still be able to draw full LOS on enemy models

Put another way, the ADL lacks any rules which make it act differently from one side or the other, nor any rules that make it work differently for the side that bought it than the side that didn't buy it. So, it's entirely possible that you might get a cover save from your opponent's ADL.

Happyjew wrote:
Not necessarily, it depends on the distance from the ADL. There are numerous ways for a model to be partially hidden from view , yet still be able to draw full LOS on enemy models

A wall is a wall is a wall. 2 models standing equal distances from either side of the same wall that are equal height should be able to see each other equally right? It is hard to explain this to people who buy the thing and think that just because THEY bought it that THEY are the only ones who can benefit from it. I wish it was FAQed someplace that would explain this quickly without having to jump back and forth in the BRB. In the last game I had a squad on a hill shooting at guys 12" inside the line and the dude expected to get the cover save, kinda ridiculous.

x13rads wrote:

Happyjew wrote:
Not necessarily, it depends on the distance from the ADL. There are numerous ways for a model to be partially hidden from view , yet still be able to draw full LOS on enemy models

A wall is a wall is a wall. 2 models standing equal distances from either side of the same wall that are equal height should be able to see each other equally right? It is hard to explain this to people who buy the thing and think that just because THEY bought it that THEY are the only ones who can benefit from it. I wish it was FAQed someplace that would explain this quickly without having to jump back and forth in the BRB. In the last game I had a squad on a hill shooting at guys 12" inside the line and the dude expected to get the cover save, kinda ridiculous.

All things equal would mean outcomes would be the same for both sides, yes. However, this is rarely the case in many situations for many reasons.

Yes, 2 models standing equal distances from either side of the same wall that are equal height should be able to see each other equally.

In that case both models either have cover or they do not.

With the guys on the hill if they can see 76% or more of any given model then that model will not get a cover save. (P. 18 Left column, 2nd Graph for detail on Cover saves).

Pyrian wrote:
Put another way, the ADL lacks any rules which make it act differently from one side or the other, nor any rules that make it work differently for the side that bought it than the side that didn't buy it. So, it's entirely possible that you might get a cover save from your opponent's ADL.

Yeah, why wouldn't it?


The ADL is cover you can purchase and place. Aside from that its cover just like anything else.

x13rads wrote:

Happyjew wrote:
Not necessarily, it depends on the distance from the ADL. There are numerous ways for a model to be partially hidden from view , yet still be able to draw full LOS on enemy models

A wall is a wall is a wall. 2 models standing equal distances from either side of the same wall that are equal height should be able to see each other equally right? It is hard to explain this to people who buy the thing and think that just because THEY bought it that THEY are the only ones who can benefit from it. I wish it was FAQed someplace that would explain this quickly without having to jump back and forth in the BRB. In the last game I had a squad on a hill shooting at guys 12" inside the line and the dude expected to get the cover save, kinda ridiculous.

Sure, 2 models standing equal distances would both benefit from the cover, but what's much more likely is that the person who deployed the ADL will be standing right behind it or within several inches of it almost gauranteed that 4+ cover while their opponent is much further away and not being 25% obscured from the units eyes behind the ADL.

It says that for the purposes of charge moves, models in base contact with a defence line and within 2" of each other count as being in base contact.

So since I don't need to actually go through the wall to get into base contact, does this mean I don't need to roll difficult terrain, or suffer the initiative penalty, when charging a unit standing behind the wall?

Of course, I suppose they could just stand slightly out of base contact with the wall to get around this...

Arson Fire wrote:
It says that for the purposes of charge moves, models in base contact with a defence line and within 2" of each other count as being in base contact.

So since I don't need to actually go through the wall to get into base contact, does this mean I don't need to roll difficult terrain, or suffer the initiative penalty, when charging a unit standing behind the wall?

Of course, I suppose they could just stand slightly out of base contact with the wall to get around this...

You still have to roll for Difficult terrain, as you have to move over the wall to get into Base contact.

 DeathReaper wrote:

Arson Fire wrote:
It says that for the purposes of charge moves, models in base contact with a defence line and within 2" of each other count as being in base contact.

So since I don't need to actually go through the wall to get into base contact, does this mean I don't need to roll difficult terrain, or suffer the initiative penalty, when charging a unit standing behind the wall?

Of course, I suppose they could just stand slightly out of base contact with the wall to get around this...

You still have to roll for Difficult terrain, as you have to move over the wall to get into Base contact.

You dont need to go over the wall if there is no room, but you do need to make base contact with it.

Fragile wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

Arson Fire wrote:
It says that for the purposes of charge moves, models in base contact with a defence line and within 2" of each other count as being in base contact.

So since I don't need to actually go through the wall to get into base contact, does this mean I don't need to roll difficult terrain, or suffer the initiative penalty, when charging a unit standing behind the wall?

Of course, I suppose they could just stand slightly out of base contact with the wall to get around this...

You still have to roll for Difficult terrain, as you have to move over the wall to get into Base contact.

You dont need to go over the wall if there is no room, but you do need to make base contact with it.

Right, but you still have to roll for difficult terrain if you might have to go over the wall. (and even then you still have to reach Base contact if possible even if the model can not be physically placed there).

He's right, but if you don't actually go over the wall due to rolling low enough not to have to then you don't have the init penalty.

 Kevin949 wrote:
He's right, but if you don't actually go over the wall due to rolling low enough not to have to then you don't have the init penalty.

I did not say said anything about an initiative penalty.

I was talking about having to make the Difficult terrain test when you charge a unit behind an Aegis Defence line.

 DeathReaper wrote:

Fragile wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

Arson Fire wrote:
It says that for the purposes of charge moves, models in base contact with a defence line and within 2" of each other count as being in base contact.

So since I don't need to actually go through the wall to get into base contact, does this mean I don't need to roll difficult terrain, or suffer the initiative penalty, when charging a unit standing behind the wall?

Of course, I suppose they could just stand slightly out of base contact with the wall to get around this...

You still have to roll for Difficult terrain, as you have to move over the wall to get into Base contact.

You dont need to go over the wall if there is no room, but you do need to make base contact with it.

Right, but you still have to roll for difficult terrain if you might have to go over the wall. (and even then you still have to reach Base contact if possible even if the model can not be physically placed there).

This is curious, but I cant find it atm. Where does touching terrain count as being in terrain? In other words, would having to get in BTB with the wall, count as being in / moving through difficult terrain?

Touching terrain is a Difficult terrain roll. as that is what the roll is for, if you touch the terrain.

If you do not actually come into contact with the terrain you do not have to roll a Difficult terrain test.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
He's right, but if you don't actually go over the wall due to rolling low enough not to have to then you don't have the init penalty.

I did not say said anything about an initiative penalty.

I was talking about having to make the Difficult terrain test when you charge a unit behind an Aegis Defence line.

Never said you did...I was just clarifying for the previous poster. Sorry, I won't agree with you ever again.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
He's right, but if you don't actually go over the wall due to rolling low enough not to have to then you don't have the init penalty.

I did not say said anything about an initiative penalty.

I was talking about having to make the Difficult terrain test when you charge a unit behind an Aegis Defence line.

Never said you did...I was just clarifying for the previous poster. Sorry, I won't agree with you ever again.

Was just wondering where the issue of the Init penalty came from, since I didn't mention it.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
He's right, but if you don't actually go over the wall due to rolling low enough not to have to then you don't have the init penalty.

I did not say said anything about an initiative penalty.

I was talking about having to make the Difficult terrain test when you charge a unit behind an Aegis Defence line.

Never said you did...I was just clarifying for the previous poster. Sorry, I won't agree with you ever again.

Was just wondering where the issue of the Init penalty came from, since I didn't mention it.

Nowhere specifically, but it does eventually come up in these types of discussions as many people still equate rolling for DT = Initiative penalty. I did, until I was pointed in the right direction by people on here. Mainly I was just agreeing with what you were saying and attempting to circumvent a potential spawned discussion point.

 DeathReaper wrote:

Fragile wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

Arson Fire wrote:
It says that for the purposes of charge moves, models in base contact with a defence line and within 2" of each other count as being in base contact.

So since I don't need to actually go through the wall to get into base contact, does this mean I don't need to roll difficult terrain, or suffer the initiative penalty, when charging a unit standing behind the wall?

Of course, I suppose they could just stand slightly out of base contact with the wall to get around this...

You still have to roll for Difficult terrain, as you have to move over the wall to get into Base contact.

You dont need to go over the wall if there is no room, but you do need to make base contact with it.

Right, but you still have to roll for difficult terrain if you might have to go over the wall. (and even then you still have to reach Base contact if possible even if the model can not be physically placed there).

So for the purpose of charge range, If it is.....
(X)(W)_________ <--------------------------------(Z)

Z unit would only have to make B2B with the wall to roll his charge range?

TheSwarmLives wrote:


So for the purpose of charge range, If it is.....
(X)(W)_________ <--------------------------------(Z)

Z unit would only have to make B2B with the wall to roll his charge range?

As long as Z is in Base contact with the wall, and within 2 inches of X then they are treated as being in base contact.

Though you will still have to roll for difficult terrain because you are touching difficult terrain with your charge move.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Touching terrain is a Difficult terrain roll. as that is what the roll is for, if you touch the terrain.

If you do not actually come into contact with the terrain you do not have to roll a Difficult terrain test.

Ok, cite that rule for me. That just touching requires a DT.

Fragile wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Touching terrain is a Difficult terrain roll. as that is what the roll is for, if you touch the terrain.

If you do not actually come into contact with the terrain you do not have to roll a Difficult terrain test.

Ok, cite that rule for me. That just touching requires a DT.

Page 90, Left Column, Moving into difficult terrain heading.

If you are touching the terrain you have moved through it, if you are not touching the terrain you have not.

Make sure you read the rulebook's entry regarding Battlefield Debris - defense lines. some tidbits of wisdom can be gleaned.

One thing I find important is that models in contact with the wall get a cover save more assuredly than simple TLOS (assuming the wall is properly in the way compared to foes, of course) as if the soldiers could crouch, etc. That gives them a bit of a vested interest in hugging the wall. Assaulters have to face the DT rules when charging at the wall - which makes sense as it gets in the way, and the 'models are considered in base contact if...' helps to play the assault smoothly.

Now, for models -not- in contact with the wall, TLOS comes into play, so a tall tank, high-positiong troop or flyer might actualy see the troopers back behind the wall quite clearly, those troopers would have no cover and the attacker could focus-fire at those. If the defenders far back shoot at attackers, sometimes wall cover would come into play in favor of the attackers, it's a matter of getting down with the models and looking to see how far behind the wall you have to be to have a good view of the foe.

 DeathReaper wrote:

Fragile wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Touching terrain is a Difficult terrain roll. as that is what the roll is for, if you touch the terrain.

If you do not actually come into contact with the terrain you do not have to roll a Difficult terrain test.

Ok, cite that rule for me. That just touching requires a DT.

Page 90, Left Column, Moving into difficult terrain heading.

If you are touching the terrain you have moved through it, if you are not touching the terrain you have not.

That rule references "entering", not "touching". Which are not the same. I.E. I'm touching the state line, but I have not entered Nevada from California.

You are either in it or you are not, if you are not touching the terrain you are not in it, if you are touching the terrain you are in it.